Thank You Leo, You've Helped Me Realize I'm Trans

[DrugsBunny]

16 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You can be a child at any age. In fact, most adults are children. And I would especially expect this of trans people.

@Leo Gura Age was your qualifier, not mine.

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

However, there are legit concerns about youngsters getting confused and altering their bodies in harmful and irrevesible ways 

I don't think it's worth my time to continue debating this, as I've already clearly exposed the blind-spots in your perspective, but I can't help myself.

What you're saying now is that even 27 year old adults cannot be trusted with their own bodily autonomy. How far into reactionary lunacy are you willing to plunge just to justify your initial prejudiced response? Why not just admit that your response was rushed and somewhat short sighted?

Just to recap, what has happened here is: 

1. A trans adult has embraced their identity and decided to transition
2. Leo expressed discomfort with the idea being "conflicted on the whole trans thing", but values their happiness
3. It's pointed out that nothing about this should evoke discomfort
4. Leo's justification for his reaction is because "youngsters could harm themselves"
5. It's pointed out that OP is an adult and no children are being discussed
6. Leo, desperately backpedaling, redirects focus from legal age to subjective maturity level

If maturity was the issue all along, why not just start there? Why are you deferring to every inbred conservative's go-to talking point? Even in spite of this blatant backpedaling the main objection still stands: The absence of any indication of the user's maturity level should warrant an absence of any presumptuous criticism that hinges on the user being immature. If you can't help yourself but assume something about the situation warrants discomfort, mainly due to your reflexive inclination being to write off trans people as immature, how are you going to insist that this is anything other than blatant prejudice? 

People on this forum tend to be pretty dense, especially in blind deference to their spiritual guru-daddy, but I'd be surprised if not a single person can clearly recognize the bigoted biases on full display here.

 

[Leo Gura]

23 minutes ago, DrugsBunny said:

Age was your qualifier, not mine.

You are the one who started complaining about adults and children.

I mentioned youngsters because they tend to be more immature.

Quote

not a single person can clearly recognize the bigoted biases on full display here.

Jesus you are self-absorbed.

Edited April 1, 2023 by Leo Gura

[puporing]

@Emrie I honor your decision ultimately. I just felt compelled to say, if somehow you decided not to physically transition, it is still possible to express the gender you want to express while in a different body to a large degree. it's possible also you haven't met the right people yet (eg, bisexual men and people who embrace "two-spiritedness") because I've known guys who are bisexual and very loving toward their biological male partner who clearly play the feminine role. but I understand also if you want to go the extreme feminine side it may be harder to do, there are still ways around that like art and cross-dressing, changing to a gender-neutral name. the key is to own it and it can be a beautiful thing. but yeah I also totally get that if it's really clear to you that none of those things are good enough of options that you would want to do the switch more officially.

Edited April 2, 2023 by puporing

[How to be wise]

@DrugsBunny Obviously whatever makes you happy is what you should go with. But the extreme is pretending like a trans woman is identical to a real woman, they’re not.

[Osaid]

1 hour ago, DrugsBunny said:

People on this forum tend to be pretty dense, especially in blind deference to their spiritual guru-daddy, but I'd be surprised if not a single person can clearly recognize the bigoted biases on full display here.

They only seem dense because you're being dense about your own position. So to you, it seems like anyone opposing your position has to be biased and they must be ignoring all your talking points on purpose. But the only reason you think that way is because you are so hellbent on your own position that you don't even consider that anyone opposing it is actually coming at it from somewhere charitable.

[hyruga]

@Emrie Well, there's pros and cons to any gender. It's good that you have made a decision but you should not backtrack so it's best to think deeply.

When you see the group of girls, you are looking at the benefits of being a lady: Having fun, laughing, dressing well.

But you have to look at the other sides as well: what's the cons of being a trans.

Also, you should look at the pros and cons of staying where you are. 

Then ultimately, you have created a deeper understanding of yourself and created many identities.

Next, you also should let go of your identities and know who you really are.

[DrugsBunny]

1 hour ago, Osaid said:

They only seem dense because you're being dense about your own position.

He says gleefully, mouth overflowing with reproductive fluids from his master guru-daddy Leo. You are entitled to your perspective, but I am appalled that you would subject this otherwise wholesome community to the X rated debauchery taking place between you two.

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You are the one who started complaining about adults and children.

My dude actually forgot that he is the one who brought up "youngers" before it was ever mentioned otherwise. Yikes, the blindfolds of bigotry.

1 hour ago, How to be wise said:

@DrugsBunny Obviously whatever makes you happy is what you should go with. But the extreme is pretending like a trans woman is identical to a real woman, they’re not.

Congratulations sir, you have won the highly coveted Hapless Brainlet Award™.

Not only was nobody making the argument that trans women are identical to cis women, but even if that had been the focus, you are still painfully off the mark. Trans women are in fact "real" women, because we are not talking about biological sex, we are talking about gender. If your "real" gender does not match your "real" sex, then you have gender dysphoria, thus making you trans, and nothing about your gender becomes unreal in this scenario.

The only difference between a cis woman and a trans woman is that the trans woman was not assigned female at birth. If you think this difference qualifies as some huge moral distinction then you're horrendously closed-minded, but the silver lining in that is that Leo most likely has an open moderator position available for you.

[puporing]

3 hours ago, Osaid said:

They only seem dense because you're being dense about your own position. So to you, it seems like anyone opposing your position has to be biased and they must be ignoring all your talking points on purpose. But the only reason you think that way is because you are so hellbent on your own position that you don't even consider that anyone opposing it is actually coming at it from somewhere charitable.

I don't really want to get into it, but I do want to point out that this place (like many others) currently isn't deemed "safe" for transgender/two-spirit topics, so you don't see people talking about it as a result. this alone does not invalidate it, just like how you wouldn't equate the fact there are very few awakened people on this planet (and unsafe to talk about with most people) that it would make it invalid. I acknowledge however where people are at and respectfully disengage from this discussion in general. 

@DrugsBunny I acknowledge the difficulty in having this discussion here and I just want to say, I see you and I hope you can find peace within yourself that you don't need approval from others to be certain of your view. please understand that everyone is learning on their own "timelines" and this may be why it can be difficult to get a consensus.

Edited April 2, 2023 by puporing

[Israfil]

I don't understand how having doubts about the validity of a personal decision of someone can be so heavily politicized.

I can be pro-psychedelics and still question your reason for taking Psilocybin or LSD.

I can be pro-LGBTQA+ and still question your reason for transitioning. If you're not self-developed enough, there can be plenty of reasons you see yourself as trans besides gender dysphoria. I see this being questioned here, not the validity of trans people.

[DrugsBunny]

@puporing I appreciate your acknowledgement of the merit in my position, and while I commend your openness, I would also like to point out a key difference between our respective approaches.

I will never back down from shining a light on the ugly surfacing of blatant bigotry, such as what we have observed from @Leo Gura, @Osaid and @How to be wise. You may find it more practical to remain passive in the face of this ugliness, but I would encourage you to step out of your comfort zone when dealing with these extremely harmful closed-minded attitudes.

10 minutes ago, Israfil said:

I can be pro-LGBTQA+ and still question your reason for transitioning. If you're not self-developed enough, there can be plenty of reasons you see yourself as trans besides gender dysphoria. I see this being questioned here, not the validity of trans people.

The issue here is that nobody is questioning OP's reasoning for transitioning on the basis of anything they've actually said. If they had dissected OP's post and argued against any short-sighted reasons they have for transitioning then you would be correct, but that is very clearly not the case.

The reason you only see the basis for their reasoning being questioned as opposed to the validity of trans people is because your unchecked biased blatantly favor Leo's closed-minded perspective.

[Leo Gura]

@DrugsBunny You have no comprehension of what is at stake.

[Thought Art]

It’s worth looking at all the pros and cons. I share this just because before you change your physical body you really want to do deep work, consider options etc. 
 

The physical transition is not you becoming the other gender. It is physically impossible to do this. There is a potential host of problems that can come from this. Such as losing your ability to feel sexual pleasure. So, please do as much research as possible. 
 

It’s also worth being cautious in the fantasy that women will treat you like a woman, or that men will. Maybe! But, also maybe they will see you as a man, or as trans which is a third thing, which I still know little about in the social realm. Of course there are different kinds of social circles out there so who knows.
 

However, you have to make your own decisions. 

This is not, in reality a one sided problem. It is not that, those who share words of caution are bigots and transphobes. The reality is much more complicated. 

People who are blindly pro all things trans are pseudo progressive. They imagine that a complete blind acceptance of all things trans is good. There is good in accepting others and for everyone feeling safe and understood in society. But, what they don’t see is that when we begin to understand trans issues there’s a lot of mental health considerations, the rights of biological women and young girls,   and dangers of transitioning that go into play here and in reality the situation is very complicated. A true progressive is going to move beyond group think and fear of social pressures to think for themselves and make high quality distinctions. 

When it comes to you being happy… this is a complicated thing.

I beckon everyone to be willing to look at this from more perspectives. 
 

In the end, do what makes my happy and love yourself. It doesn’t really matter what other people think. 

Edited April 2, 2023 by Thought Art

[Mada_]

I'd suggest reading the Detransition Reddit thread. 

 

[puporing]

@DrugsBunny I just don't think it's wise to talk about such a personal matter with people who may not have much of direct experience with the topic. like I would just recommend talking to a few gender therapists and trans/two-spirited folks if one is looking for space-holders to process things or additional research. if one hasn't experienced much gender dysphoria in their life how they have this discussion (like asking questions) is going to be very different from those who have.

my position is more of that you do not need to physically transition to express the gender you want to express, it can be done with more confidence and relating with people on similar pages. and imo from a place of love this approach gives you the most freedom, wholeness, and self-love. because at some point, you might realize very strongly that you contain both the masculine and feminine and neither bodily fixation alone properly expresses the two. that's not to say that you won't still land in a strong preference for living with one over another outward expression after careful considerations (and possibly also related to one's "career" choice besides social aspects), so if one feels that physical transition is the only way to I understand it.

and I just don't think it's going to lead to more compassion for the OP if you keep on calling people names for their positions, this is going to cause more reactionary responses that is not helpful to OP. there are many ways to shine light on things the wisest are not necessarily to "brute force" your way.

Edited April 2, 2023 by puporing

[Israfil]

9 hours ago, DrugsBunny said:

The issue here is that nobody is questioning OP's reasoning for transitioning on the basis of anything they've actually said.

This is simply not true. 

Don't call me biased if you're going to ignore legitimate comments made by direct quotations of OP. You just want to defend your point of view that everyone is an anti-trans bigot. We'll get nowhere with this discussion. I suggest you integrate more points of view about this matter. No one here demeaned or criticized trans people.  

[Juan]

Interesting talk I think related to the subject here. 

[lostingenosmaze]

@Squeekytoy Yeah, kinda insensitive that the first reaction these people have to a celebratory thread on transitioning is to post reasons for not transitioning ? Whatever you stance on the "issue" is, I don't think OP asked for a debate

[How to be wise]

19 hours ago, DrugsBunny said:

He says gleefully, mouth overflowing with reproductive fluids from his master guru-daddy Leo. You are entitled to your perspective, but I am appalled that you would subject this otherwise wholesome community to the X rated debauchery taking place between you two.

My dude actually forgot that he is the one who brought up "youngers" before it was ever mentioned otherwise. Yikes, the blindfolds of bigotry.

Congratulations sir, you have won the highly coveted Hapless Brainlet Award™.

Not only was nobody making the argument that trans women are identical to cis women, but even if that had been the focus, you are still painfully off the mark. Trans women are in fact "real" women, because we are not talking about biological sex, we are talking about gender. If your "real" gender does not match your "real" sex, then you have gender dysphoria, thus making you trans, and nothing about your gender becomes unreal in this scenario.

The only difference between a cis woman and a trans woman is that the trans woman was not assigned female at birth. If you think this difference qualifies as some huge moral distinction then you're horrendously closed-minded, but the silver lining in that is that Leo most likely has an open moderator position available for you.

There are only two genders. Full stop.

[DrugsBunny]

8 hours ago, Israfil said:

No one here demeaned or criticized trans people.  

Oooof.
Leo literally edited his message to exclude the part where he said "And I would especially expect this of trans people". You'll have to go back to my message quoting him for the proof since he removed it.

I wouldn't be on here wasting my time if there wasn't blatant bigotry on display, but since you are in love with the taste of Leo's ejaculate, an addiction that has you clamoring for more while you submissively debase yourself, you have committed to overlook his obvious short-comings (no pun intended).

[puporing]

@DrugsBunny in every situation you can choose what you see. you could also choose to see the editing of the comment as an act of love. there's always a choice in that. and what is not love is a call for love behind the message. I am not much interested in the game of division as all of what you guys say to each other register in "my consciousness" also and it's like attacking yourself. and even if you're not super conscious of that it is still the case that it is affecting your consciousness. ofc I don't control what you/anyone say, but I can at least try to make peace, consciousness compels me to. you are free to make boundaries from here if it's better for your growth and I frequently do.

Edited April 3, 2023 by puporing