Thank You Leo, You've Helped Me Realize I'm Trans

[DrugsBunny]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Not sure what to say here. I'm conflicted about this whole trans phenomenon. But if you are truly happy and not just kidding yourself, then I'm glad.

I forgot, Leo's not exactly progressive on this matter. Unfortunate, not a good look.

[Leo Gura]

Not a good look to be blindly progressive.

[LSD-Rumi]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Not a good look to be blindly progressive.

What do you think would be a better approach for gender dysphoria? Accepting gender?

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, LSD-Rumi said:

What do you think would be a better approach for gender dysphoria? Accepting gender?

A year or more of therapy and inner work at the least for starters. Then see how you feel.

I think people these days don't have a good sense of what being masculine and feminine even means. This requires research and exploration.

Edited April 1, 2023 by Leo Gura

[DrugsBunny]

@Leo Gura You come off as someone who has never known a trans person.

The matter really isn't that complicated. We can clearly observe that men and women are very differently wired on a fundamental level, not a mere social conditioning which dictates male and female behavioral archetypes. Some people have the female archetype in the male body and vice versa.

If you aren't blind to the reality that gender dysphoria is a real phenomenon then there is no excuse to not be adamantly pro-trans in this society, as being on the fence with this matter is to inadvertently play into the hands of hateful conservatives, such as those using the recent school shooting as evidence that trans people are deranged, (despite trans people committing shootings at disproportionately low rate relative to their population).

Maybe there is some argument to be made that men are not being properly taught to embody true masculinity (as I recall being your main grievance with this issue), but if we're being sensible, you must make a distinction between sex and gender here. If we're talking about sex, then clearly not all "men" need to be masculine, because that is not necessarily their inherent archetypal psychology.

Honestly, there's no excuse for this shit. Just 'cause you've realized God or whatever doesn't make you infallible.

[Emrie]

1 hour ago, Salvijus said:

Also, are u going to talk to a therapist before commiting to it?

I literally cannot transition without talking to a gender therapist. The gender therapist MUST officially diagnose me with gender dysphoria in order for me to transition. So yes I'm going to talk to a therapist.

39 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

A year or more of therapy and inner work at the least for starters. Then see how you feel.

Which is what happens. Not necessarily a whole year, and it depends on the country you live in. I know the US has "Informed Consent" clinics where they let you take HRT without therapy but you'll need a therapist anyways for surgeries, and only if you're an adult. Countries with universal healthcare require the diagnosis to cover the HRT, so if you wanted to do it without it, you're now paying out of pocket.

And you can always stop HRT if it doesn't feel right. You feel the effects of it very quickly so you can quickly tell if it's not right. If you've only been on HRT for a few months, you won't really even have any (or maybe just a few) consequences on your long-term health. I think the biggest one is you can become sterile after like a year. Beyond that, your body will just go right back to producing your hormones normally like before.

I think a lot of conservatives really don't understand the actual reality of transgenderism and transitioning. People don't just wake up one day and decide they want to change their gender. It's a lot harder and there's much more due process than they think. Not saying you're a conservative, Leo, but it's just a feeling I've got from the arguments I hear conservatives talk about.

As to your point on whether I'm kidding myself, we'll see what the therapist says, but, I don't think so. I've been improving my life for more than 8 years now and there's always been something missing. At the very least you can be happy I'm actually getting myself exposed to this new experience and seeing how I feel. Which was exactly what you said to do to build a happy life.

[Leo Gura]

39 minutes ago, DrugsBunny said:

If you aren't blind to the reality that gender dysphoria is a real phenomenon then there is no excuse to not be adamantly pro-trans in this society, as being on the fence with this matter is to inadvertently play into the hands of hateful conservatives,

It's not so simple.

I am not denying that trans is a real thing. However, there are legit concerns about youngsters getting confused and altering their bodies in harmful and irrevesible ways with hormones and surgery. Do not pretend like that isn't happening. It's only a question of quantity.

Edited April 1, 2023 by Leo Gura

[DrugsBunny]

@Leo Gura An adult trans person announces that they are embracing their identity and transitioning genders. What about this makes you uncomfortable?

They then go on to personally thank you for helping them see themselves more clearly. You say "Not sure what to say exactly, I'm conflicted on this whole trans thing. Won't somebody please think of the children?"

Nowhere in this thread are children being discussed. I know you believe you have transcended all human biases and shortcomings, but try to step out of your bubble for just a second and notice you're literally being a blind reactionary conservative right now. Children are not the focus of this discussion, and if you insist that they are tangentially related this is undeniably a prejudiced (and somewhat bitchmade if I'm to be blunt) noncommittal pussyfooting that I would strongly encourage you to reevaluate. 

I respect you, which is why I won't filter my language about this despite how high of a regard I have for your work.

[Leo Gura]

@DrugsBunny Except you left out the part where I said I was glad if they are happy.

Also, I don't know people's ages here.

Edited April 1, 2023 by Leo Gura

[DrugsBunny]

@Leo Gura The focus of my criticism is not over whether you can acknowledge that their happiness warrants support, my issue is that you clearly expressed discomfort with the situation and cited your reason being because children could get hurt. 

They are 27 as they have stated here.

On 3/31/2023 at 10:32 AM, Emrie said:

I mean you might as well ask me "Have you tried not being trans?" And to that I would say "I don't know, HAVE I? What have I been doing for 27 years!"

Let's forget they ever stated their age. The absence of any indicator of their age should also warrant the absence of any objection you could have that hinges on them being a child. You reflexively deferred to that qualm as a means of justifying your initial reaction of discomfort.

It really is true what you say in your videos, people's bias are blatantly obvious when you're merely looking outwards, as admittedly I am here. I'm curious whether you have the maturity to acknowledge that you've really let your blind-spots show quite visibly here.

[BipolarGrowth]

I think the trans phenomena can be a bit of a bandwagon situation. Awakening can definitely bring out the exploration of this though. I think what people really want is to experience life as an actual woman rather than chemically and physically mutilating their male body to ultimately come up short. At least that’s how it is for myself. 

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, DrugsBunny said:

hinges on them being a child.

You can be a child at any age. In fact, most adults are children. So this says nothing.

Yes, I have to be careful about people using my work to justify whatever fantasies they might have. I'm not saying that is the case here. I have no idea. But self-deception is always at play. You just have to be careful that you are not deceiving yourself.

I have considered deleting my Gender Is A Social Construct video because I worry that people will misuse it and cause harm to themselves. I take this issue seriously. This stuff is way more tricky than progressives understand.

And yes, thinking of the children is important on this issue.

Anyways, I do not want to derail this thread with a debate about trans politics.

Edited April 1, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Yali]

@Leo Gura How do you define an adult child? Curious as to whether I and the adults I know in my life count as one.

Edited April 1, 2023 by Yali

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Yali said:

How do you define an adult child?

I will make a video about that.

It's a function of maturity.

What is maturity?

[Yali]

@Leo Gura Do you measure maturity based solely on one's level of spiral development? If not, what other factors do you consider?

Edited April 1, 2023 by Yali

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Yali said:

@Leo Gura Do you measure maturity based solely on one's level of spiral development?

No, I don't use SD at all for this.

2 minutes ago, Yali said:

If not, what other factors do you consider?

Contemplate: What is maturity?

[Yali]

@Leo Gura I don't know. I guess one measure woild be one's capacity to take responsibility for their life, especially when it's uncomfortable to do so. Can you briefly describe how you would measure maturity?

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Contemplate: What is maturity?

 

Edited April 2, 2023 by Yali

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Yali said:

@Leo Gura I don't know. I guess one measure I would use to measure one's level of maturity is by their capacity to take responsibility for their life, especially when it's uncomfortable to do so.

That's a good start.

1 minute ago, Yali said:

Can you briefly describe how you would measure maturity?

No. You contemplate it.

[Yali]

@Leo Gura Well you have more life experience than me, so I'd like to know your contemplations. 

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

No. You contemplate it.

 

[Yali]

@Leo Gura Another measure I would use to measure maturity is one's capacity to deny one's urges, such as being emotionally reactive or chasing immediate gratification.