Do you know really unattractive anti blackpill?

[Schizophonia]

Literally every guy I see (especially including on this forum) criticizing blackpill, and explaining that you have to "play" and practice are actually quite attractives.
Even Leo passes himself off as unattractive because he's bald and skinny, but it's actually a 6/10, he doesn't have a bad face and is taller.

Where are the ugly PUA promoters? Does it exist or are they just mostly liberals who copes by trying to make believe that they have what they fundamentally have by their work?

I hang out on forums where a certain number of people who rate themselves between 3 and 6 have never had a girlfriend or even sex after a massive PUA.

Edited March 28, 2023 by Schizophonia

[Arcangelo]

There's some truth to blackpill...

Women have standards. So if you are missing an ear you'll prolly have it more difficult than a guy with 2 ears.

 

[Raze]

Rsd Tyler, Yad from daygame, and Valentino Kohen were PUA’s who aren’t traditionally attractive, but they have retired.

There is also Justin Marc.

[Optimized Life]

17 minutes ago, Raze said:

Rsd Tyler, Yad from daygame, and Valentino Kohen were PUA’s who aren’t traditionally attractive, but they have retired.

There is also Justin Marc.

You're still evading what he's asking. 

RSD tyler is not a 3/10, he's at least a 5 or 6/10. 

Justin marc = 6.5 /10 in face or more he's just short and Asian, although I'm not sure what his results are

I don't know what the answer is but my intuition is that game would be much much harder for a 3/10 than a 8/10, maybe the 3/10 couldn't even compete but would have to just do his best, like try to land himself a 6/10 girl with his personality.  Whereas maybe the 8/10 would be able to land a 7/10 girlfriend just via luck as long as he was social and had normal social skills used a bit of alcohol as a clutch at the right moment (but no game for example), whereas the 3/10 might have to approach 300-500 women to get a 6/10.

Maybe I'm wrong though, maybe there's 3/10's out there with stunning girls, I just don't see it often. 

Edited March 30, 2023 by Optimized Life

[Ulax]

Tom Torero wasn't exactly blessed in the looks department

[Raze]

3 hours ago, Optimized Life said:

You're still evading what he's asking. 

RSD tyler is not a 3/10, he's at least a 5 or 6/10. 

 

He is absolutely not a 6/10, he is literally bald, fat and average height. 
 

3 hours ago, Optimized Life said:

Justin marc = 6.5 /10 in face or more he's just short and Asian, although I'm not sure what his results are 

I’ve seen many blackpillers claim height and race are more important than face, and he is 5’4 and Indian.

3 hours ago, Optimized Life said:

I don't know what the answer is but my intuition is that game would be much much harder for a 3/10 than a 8/10, maybe the 3/10 couldn't even compete but would have to just do his best, like try to land himself a 6/10 girl with his personality.  Whereas maybe the 8/10 would be able to land a 7/10 girlfriend just via luck as long as he was social and had normal social skills used a bit of alcohol as a clutch at the right moment (but no game for example), whereas the 3/10 might have to approach 300-500 women to get a 6/10.

Maybe I'm wrong though, maybe there's 3/10's out there with stunning girls, I just don't see it often. 

The problem with this is it is very well putting the cart before the horse. Due to better feedback the more attractive guys can develop better game, and the unattractive guys worse through lack of confidence, which alters results, but is only indirectly related to their looks.

[Roy]

So you are saying "ugly" guys and blackpillers are justified in their toxic whining that they can't get any sex or girlfriends even with pick-up? But what you are missing is most pick-up communities and dating advice is given out for guys (with no natural game that need help) striving and shooting WAY above their grade and aiming for 8's+. It's overshooting what is consistently realistic because they want to inspire and sell (desperate) guys on the ideas of doing well with beautiful women. Which is fine. However... 

Have you ever heard of the phrase "Stay in your lane." ?

All the incels, blackpillers, redpillers, MGTOW, and all the other internet idiots I've seen fawn over girls that are way out of their league even with pick-up. If you are an ugly 2/10 you can work your ass off and dream all you want, but at some point you have to be realistic and settle for what you can get. Otherwise you're just going to be ice skating uphill and waste a lot of time on false promises from people trying to sell you a fantasy.

I guess there is some truth to their qualms after all, but there is also wisdom in understanding your lot in life and doing the best with what you're given. Instead of just wasting your life complaining that it's hopeless and if you can't get someone way better than you, you'd rather have nothing.

Of course you can have something, the idea that you are completely doomed is total bullshit.

If you are ugly you'll probably have to end up with someone else ugly. It may be really harsh but that's reality. Too fucking bad. Stay in your lane.

I've loved basketball my entire life, but I knew I wasn't going to waste my time filling my head with delusions about making the NBA.......... because I'm not 6'6" and 230 pounds. It was never in the cards.

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by Roy

[hoodrow trillson]

It's truth.

But it's also all predetermined anyways.  You have no choice in the matter.  Even the outliers are predetermined too and everything in between.  This should be liberating though and not paralyzing.  Unfortunately, most get paralyzed by these real hard truths.  

Still, it's all about the experience and the fun and the chase, so what's there to lose to try since it's all a game? 

[Optimized Life]

3 hours ago, hoodrow trillson said:

It's truth.

But it's also all predetermined anyways.  You have no choice in the matter.  Even the outliers are predetermined too and everything in between.  This should be liberating though and not paralyzing.  Unfortunately, most get paralyzed by these real hard truths.  

Still, it's all about the experience and the fun and the chase, so what's there to lose to try since it's all a game? 

Yeah it's just "all predetermined" like we don't have personal choices or can't improve ourselves. 

WTF is this extreme argument. 

[Optimized Life]

19 hours ago, Roy said:

Have you ever heard of the phrase "Stay in your lane." ?

All the incels, blackpillers, redpillers, MGTOW, and all the other internet idiots I've seen fawn over girls that are way out of their league even with pick-up. If you are an ugly 2/10 you can work your ass off and dream all you want, but at some point you have to be realistic and settle for what you can get. Otherwise you're just going to be ice skating uphill and waste a lot of time on false promises from people trying to sell you a fantasy.

To get technical and numerical here what do you think would strike the right balance between giving it your best shot & having high standards vs being realistic / not obsessing over something impossible? ... Because I'm assuming you're not totally blackpilled and don't think attraction is all about looks or that it's a straight ratio like a 5/10 MUST date a 5/10 girl. 

Example (What staying in ones lane would be to you?)

"2/10 guy should reach for max 5/10 girl" 

"4/10 guy should reach for max 6.5 maybe 7 girl"

"6/10 guy should reach for max 8/10 girl after he masterd game" ..

Or "6.5 is the cut off point where any 6.5 guy can get any girl if he compensates enough with master game, status etc.. 

^ This isn't my opinion just an example, could you provide an example yourself like this to be specific? 

[hoodrow trillson]

19 minutes ago, Optimized Life said:

Yeah it's just "all predetermined" like we don't have personal choices or can't improve ourselves. 

WTF is this extreme argument. 

Lol nobody is arguing, calm your ass down

You’re not going to get laid sitting in your house all day.  You can’t control who you like or who likes you back.  

[Roy]

8 minutes ago, Optimized Life said:

To get technical and numerical here

That's the problem. Love, sex, intimacy and connection isn't that logical at all, it's mostly emotions and intangible psychological/spiritual things. The materialism part mostly comes later, like "should I settle and move in with this person when there career path is X?"

You can't reduce people down to a number. I'm ONLY using the rating system because it's effective and colloquial communication in our modern culture. I would never actually take a rating for someone seriously. and you shouldn't either. It's just a hip fire reductionist way to generally say how hot/attractive you think someone is on the surface. It's all personal preference too. For me for example any girl/woman I meet that is in good shape and exercises is pretty much automatically a 7 regardless of anything else because I it's rare and I value health quite highly.

Realistically you are only going to be able to maintain a relationship with someone around your development level (as a guy). Women are more ruthless about cutting men out for someone higher because they have options given to them. While men have to create their options.

Even if you get really good at game and manage to score a 9 who is hot, great career, great personality for a night out and bring her to your place to get laid - if YOU aren't roughly a 9 yourself it will only be a few weeks before she sees through your façade and leaves. Occasionally you will get lucky, but not on average.

People usually want to keep others in their life who are around the same level of status/wealth/morality/ambition etc. or higher so they get brought up. Notice how when you start making big improvements to your life you'll start feeling you have to cut others out who are dragging you down, or they will try to stop you from changing for the better.

Incels, blackpillers, and other losers who have a terrible attitude towards life, aren't fun to be around, and spend all their time on the internet are going to have extremely limited options. Basically others who are just like them, and unfortunately for them the baseline for most females is much higher.

It's not a coincidence the most toxic forums, ideologies, movements and groups on the internet are 90%+ men lol.

I'm going on a lot of tangents but I hope you found some of this post helpful to answer your question.

 

[flowboy]

On 28/03/2023 at 4:04 PM, Schizophonia said:

I hang out on forums where a certain number of people who rate themselves between 3 and 6 have never had a girlfriend or even sex after a massive PUA.

And how many of those are highly successful and have done the work to become a leader and build up a social network of people that highly respect and look up to them?

My guess is, none.

They're too busy whining.

[something_else]

On 28/03/2023 at 3:04 PM, Schizophonia said:

I hang out on forums where a certain number of people who rate themselves between 3 and 6 have never had a girlfriend or even sex after a massive PUA.

Are they incel forums? Because I've looked at them a fair few times and the primary issue is not looks. It's that they're all really unpleasant people.

PUA is something you need basic social skills before you can start doing effectively. If you are not physically attractive, have zero social skills, and no social network at all (which describes a lot of incels) pickup stuff is like step 5. There are like 3 or 4 other steps you need to complete before you should start doing pickup.

I've met plenty of ugly dudes who are great with women. The difference is that they are fun people to be around and don't spend their time complaining about how ugly and unlovable they are on forums online, they have vibrant social lives and do a bunch of stuff with their lives.

Edited April 3, 2023 by something_else

[Jacob Morres]

Rsd Ozzie perhaps you can say is conventionally unattractive 

 

[Roy]

14 hours ago, something_else said:

I've met plenty of ugly dudes who are great with women.

I saw a dude at the climbing gym tonight who was a 4/5 max, not very handsome at all to say the least. The girl that was with him? A solid 9. She had literally the greatest smile you could ever ask for, like Angels in a lab designed her face.

What this guy lacked in looks he made up for confidence and seemed like a happy person to be around from that short time I saw him.

It goes to show you just how important energy and vibes are.

 

[Optimized Life]

On 03/04/2023 at 10:20 PM, Roy said:

It goes to show you just how important energy and vibes are.

And good energy and vibes aren't the most common thing either, but at least it's something you can cultivate. 

Just pointing out that it could be a separate personal development journey just to generate good energy within yourself. But some people are just blessed with their innate personality or had the right childhood. 

Edited April 5, 2023 by Optimized Life

[Jacob Morres]

On 4/5/2023 at 4:02 PM, Optimized Life said:

And good energy and vibes aren't the most common thing either, but at least it's something you can cultivate. 

Just pointing out that it could be a separate personal development journey just to generate good energy within yourself. But some people are just blessed with their innate personality or had the right childhood. 

Facts - especially since girls are less into looks and more into personality 

This is king 

If you're a 3 - some unique combo of a good personality, career, body, status and fashion could probably take you to an 8/9

 

I just realized saying this can be seen as redpill. On a side note why do people dislike redpill? Is it the connotation that comes with it? Red pill has pretty decent insights and is decently empowering 

Edited April 7, 2023 by Jacob Morres

[The0Self]

On 3/30/2023 at 0:34 AM, Raze said:

Due to better feedback the more attractive guys can develop better game, and the unattractive guys worse through lack of confidence, which alters results, but is only indirectly related to their looks.

Trust me, attractive guys get enough bad reactions to require thick skin if they are really practicing game.

[Mada_]

There is 0 truth to Blackpill, come on. 

If someone is so unsuccessful at socialising because idk they are mute or something, they can build status and leverage sexual value off of that. Yes it will be harder, but you have no choice but to play the hand you're dealt. 

Tom Tomero was unattractive and really good at game, pretty creepy imo but still successful. Owen Cook is a balding ginger and gets laid.