Question for the men of actualized org

[Roy]

Cheating is childish and disgusting behavior. There is not any rationalization that exists to justify it. People do it because they are selfish/too emotionally immature to communicate to their partner and they don't have the guts to break up.

If you want to sleep with someone else that's fine, but end your current relationship first.

[Zion]

"Cheating" implies monogamy. I find that, while currently socially accepted because of history, monogamy isn't the healthiest form of a relationship. Both men & women tend to still find people other than their partner attractive, weather they deny it or not. Those who fall in line with monogamy rather than polygamy tend to be those who get jealous easily in one way or another, which to me says they are not quite emotionally mature enough for a full-on relationship. You may argue that people who are polygamous are the immature ones because they find it easy to detach/separate-themselves from people emotionally, sexually, or otherwise. Though healthy polygamy is when there is ease of presence with those involved, not detachment. I think monogamy is good if you struggle with self-discipline, as it will force you to grow there. To me, those who cheat are those who struggle to express what they want & fail to understand why it is they want it. So long as there is presence, true understanding of each other & of oneself, & love/acceptance within the relationship, cheating will cease to exist.

My take is that if you both have such a deep love & deep understanding of one another, in a healthy way, you are bound to have sexual opportunities that you would happily take advantage of if you so wished, as jealousy doesn't cross one another's mind. If exclusive sex is what holds the glue of the relationship together, what is the true point of the relationship other than sex? Sex is a powerful tool for deep communication to create connection. A connection isn't lost just because sex is had with someone else, that only happens when the connection has an unhealthy sexual attachment to one another; meaning those involved aren't present & loving with each other far beyond the sex.

The point is; if so many monogamous relationships nowadays are held together primarily by the sex & not true love & presence beyond that, it will be difficult to abstain from having sex with other people; as opportunities are abundant & sex only goes so far to hold a relationship together. All of this of course, is dependent on how you value sex in a relationship. If one doesn't value sex that much, then of course there isn't that big of an inclination to be polygamous. If you struggle to be attracted to many people outside of your relationship, then clearly there isn't that big of an inclination to be polygamous. I personally see polygamy to be more wise, as it allows for freedom & true understanding of one another, because all monogamy is is "I love you so long as you are exclusive to me & me only". And if one in this kind of a relationship had a desire to fuck another person, they would no longer be loved. So who is it that is loved here? The facade of someone you want them to be or who they truly are? Was it real love to begin with or just unhealthy sexual obsession? And yes, clearly I'm implying that most everyone, at least in the western world, values sex quite a bit & because of it; seeks it in multiple people overtime even when in a monogamous relationship.

Basically cheating comes from valuing sex too much, someone's lust in the relationship is out of balance with their love. Thats fine if there's communication on that front, but often times there isn't because lust is often confused with love; aka why there is so much cheating.

From my experience, men seemingly value sex a lot more so than women, I don't know how true it is given; the hyper-sexualization of everything nowadays & the shame society places on sex & its counterparts. Theres a lot of things to consider. Overall though, as a man, I think inherently we value sex just as much as women do, there is just a heavy imbalance of lust over love in varying degrees amongst both the sexes, & I think women value sex to the same degree as men; but in a different way. 

[Schizophonia]

12 hours ago, Roy said:

Cheating is childish and disgusting behavior. There is not any rationalization that exists to justify it. People do it because they are selfish/too emotionally immature to communicate to their partner and they don't have the guts to break up.

If you want to sleep with someone else that's fine, but end your current relationship first.

Imagine that you end up with a girl with a good ass and big tits.  You can sleep with her and neither your wife nor anyone will ever know.  What is the problem ?

[supremeyingyang]

31 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

Imagine that you end up with a girl with a good ass and big tits.  You can sleep with her and neither your wife nor anyone will ever know.  What is the problem ?

lol

[Schizophonia]

39 minutes ago, supremeyingyang said:

lol

It's a begging the question based on nothing.

Can you actually answer my question ?

[something_else]

1 hour ago, Schizophonia said:

Imagine that you end up with a girl with a good ass and big tits.  You can sleep with her and neither your wife nor anyone will ever know.  What is the problem ?

 

 

 

This logic is comparable to saying it's OK to molest a baby as long as no one ever finds out.

Edited March 27, 2023 by something_else

[supremeyingyang]

40 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

It's a begging the question based on nothing.

Can you actually answer my question ?

Imagine that I'm satisfied with my response, a creative text and a damn fine meme. Everyone laughed.

What is the problem if I don't anwer your Question?

Edited March 27, 2023 by supremeyingyang
edit

[Schizophonia]

1 hour ago, supremeyingyang said:

Imagine that I'm satisfied with my response, a creative text and a damn fine meme. Everyone laughed.

What is the problem if I don't anwer your Question?

there is no problem, you do what you want 

 

1 hour ago, something_else said:

This logic is comparable to saying it's OK to molest a baby as long as no one ever finds out.

What does "ok" mean to you?  obviously you have to be particularly strange and dangerous to want to do that, but do you think that God is going to punish you or something like that?

[something_else]

18 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

What does "ok" mean to you?  obviously you have to be particularly strange and dangerous to want to do that, but do you think that God is going to punish you or something like that?

I don't know or care, I'm not coming at this from an absolute perspective or from any kind of religious perspective, I'm thinking about it in terms of the concrete harm it potentially causes to you, and those around you.

Hiding behind an absolute POV when it comes to ethical questions is somewhat lazy because everything is OK from an absolute perspective. That's nothing new.

[Devin]

3 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

Imagine that you end up with a girl with a good ass and big tits.  You can sleep with her and neither your wife nor anyone will ever know.  What is the problem ?

You devalue your relationship, even if just for yourself directly.

[Schizophonia]

11 minutes ago, something_else said:

I don't know or care, I'm not coming at this from an absolute perspective or from any kind of religious perspective, I'm thinking about it in terms of the concrete harm it potentially causes to you, and those around you.

Hiding behind an absolute POV when it comes to ethical questions is somewhat lazy because everything is OK from an absolute perspective. That's nothing new.

Ethics is a subjective and therefore relative concept, and anyway worthless if you are not religious.  What is concrete is what might happen to me if I commit this crime?  (apart from the obvious pragmatic consequences like retaliation, for example).  That goes for any "immoral" action.

 

You may call me lazy, but you're the one who just releases cloudy, murky terms like "ethics" or "ok."

13 minutes ago, Devin said:

You devalue your relationship, even if just for yourself directly.

Why ?

[Devin]

7 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

 

Why ?

Diamonds and gold are valued highly because of rarity, you essentially after that have no 'special' relationship with her.

[supremeyingyang]

16 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

Ethics is a subjective and therefore relative concept, and anyway worthless if you are not religious.  What is concrete is what might happen to me if I commit this crime?  (apart from the obvious pragmatic consequences like retaliation, for example).  That goes for any "immoral" action.

 

You may call me lazy, but you're the one who just releases cloudy, murky terms like "ethics" or "ok."

Why ?

ok bro

[Something Funny]

4 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

Imagine that you end up with a girl with a good ass and big tits.  You can sleep with her and neither your wife nor anyone will ever know.  What is the problem ?

Besides you turning into a sneaky little looser? There is no problem.

For you.

For your wife it would be a problem however, cause that would mean that she has wasted a tonn of time and energy on a sneaky little looser instead of spending it with someone who genuinely loves her and cares about her.

[Schizophonia]

1 hour ago, Devin said:

Diamonds and gold are valued highly because of rarity, you essentially after that have no 'special' relationship with her.

This is true for impressionable/weak-minded people.
Even billionaire I don't care if I have gold, diamonds, a Ferrari, a villa...
I just want what I really like, and what I really like is usually cheap.

To get out of the metaphor, how fucking another ass one night will alter the quality of your relationship with your partner? can you give an example?

20 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

Besides you turning into a sneaky little looser? There is no problem.

It's just in your head, you created a relationship -> cheat = mean = loser etc.
Can you explain how ejaculating in another vagina one night puts me in such a category?

20 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

For you.

For your wife it would be a problem however, cause that would mean that she has wasted a tonn of time and energy on a sneaky little looser instead of spending it with someone who genuinely loves her and cares about her.

Having sex with another woman isn't going to make me love my wife less or just alter the relationship, so I don't get it.

Are you a woman? women often struggle to understand the very primitive and emotionally detached nature of the male libido.

[something_else]

 

1 hour ago, Schizophonia said:

You may call me lazy, but you're the one who just releases cloudy, murky terms like "ethics" or "ok."

Because there are some things that cause enough suffering to others to not really require justification for being unethical from a human POV; cold-blooded murder, cheating in clearly monogamous relationships/marriage, and molestation of kids are all examples of things in that category among plenty of others.

In regards to cheating specifically: you are breaking a solidly defined agreement of trust, which has the potential to emotionally destroy another person and cause extreme suffering. You are putting your own selfish needs in front of a shared responsibility that you agreed to. Most people agree that this is unethical and at the very least an indication of poor character.

15 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

Can you explain how ejaculating in another vagina one night puts me in such a category?

The fact you need to keep it a secret from your wife actually explains it very succinctly. If it was a harmless act then you could just tell your wife that you came inside another women's vagina. But you know that it would likely emotionally destroy her so you have to keep it secret in order for it to be acceptable in your mind. Which again brings you back to having to justify the statement "it's not unethical to molest a child if no one finds out" if you want to make that particular argument.

[Devin]

35 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

This is true for impressionable/weak-minded people.
Even billionaire I don't care if I have gold, diamonds, a Ferrari, a villa...
I just want what I really like, and what I really like is usually cheap.

To get out of the metaphor, how fucking another ass one night will alter the quality of your relationship with your partner? can you give an example?

 

Your example proves my point; the billionaire doesn't care about the ferrari because he has all cars, you don't care about your girlfriend.

Who enjoys the ferrari more, the billionaire, or the working stiff that polishes it every saturday.

[Something Funny]

54 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

It's just in your head, you created a relationship -> cheat = mean = loser etc.
Can you explain how ejaculating in another vagina one night puts me in such a category?

Because you behave like one.

You could honestly let a woman who you are dating know that you plan to sleep with other people even after marriying her because that's just who you are and because you have a very primal libido, and blah, blah, blah.

That would be a strong move. But you know that if you did this no woman would decide to build a relationship with you so instead you decide to use sneaky tactics and manipulations.

You would be a loser because you can't get the amount of sex that you want  while being upfront and honest. For example by building a polyamourous relationship or by staying single and having casual sex with different women. That would require some skills, effort and character on your part, and you have none, which is a definition of a looser.

On top of that you decide to compensate your lack of skills, effort, and character with petty lies and manipulation. Which turns you into a little, sneaky looser.

1 hour ago, Schizophonia said:

Having sex with another woman isn't going to make me love my wife less or just alter the relationship, so I don't get it.

If you have sex with another woman while being in a committed monogamous relationship and hide this from your wife because you are fully aware that she would be hurt by it and wouldn't like it, then you don't love your wife in the first place. And probably also have no idea what it means to love someone at all.

So the notion of you "not loving your wife less" after it is irrelevant since there was no love to begin with.

1 hour ago, Schizophonia said:

Are you a woman? women often struggle to understand the very primitive and emotionally detached nature of the male libido.

No, I am a man, and I would rather cut my balls off than cheat on my partner.

[Schizophonia]

19 minutes ago, something_else said:

20 minutes ago, something_else said:

 

Because there are some things that cause enough suffering to others to not really require justification for being unethical from a human POV; cold-blooded murder, cheating in clearly monogamous relationships/marriage, and molestation of kids are all examples of things in that category among plenty of others.

In regards to cheating specifically: you are breaking a solidly defined agreement of trust, which has the potential to emotionally destroy another person and cause extreme suffering. You are putting your own selfish needs in front of a shared responsibility that you agreed to. Most people agree that this is unethical and at the very least an indication of poor character.

It's true that if she found out it could hurt her, but I made it clear that that won't happen in my example.

20 minutes ago, something_else said:

The fact you need to keep it a secret from your wife actually explains it very succinctly. If it was a harmless act then you could just tell your wife that you came inside another women's vagina. But you know that it would likely emotionally destroy her so you have to keep it secret in order for it to be acceptable in your mind. Which again brings you back to having to justify the statement "it's not unethical to molest a child if no one finds out" if you want to make that particular argument.

 

The fact that I have to hide from her does not prove that it is a "bad act", I hide from her because she has a problem with it. She thinks it's a problem if I cheat on her, but that's only true in her head, so it's no problem if she doesn't know.

It's like telling you that you shouldn't take psychedelics because it will force you to hide it from your parents (if your parents are against it).
The fundamental problem is not to put any serotonergic substance in your body, what is problematic is the knowledge of this act by your parents because handling such a substance is for some reason taboo for them.

Now I ask my question again: If I have sex with another girl, what's the problem if I'm still in love with my girlfriend and the relationship is unchanged?

26 minutes ago, Devin said:

Your example proves my point; the billionaire doesn't care about the ferrari because he has all cars, you don't care about your girlfriend.

You totally changed the meaning of the sentence.
I said that even a millionaire I don't want a ferrari because I don't like it, I prefer a cheaper car but that suits me better.

Incidentally, I don't compare girls and cars.

26 minutes ago, Devin said:

Who enjoys the ferrari more, the billionaire, or the working stiff that polishes it every saturday.

Either you like cars or you don't, money is just a limiting factor.

[Schizophonia]

18 minutes ago, RebornConsciousness said:

Imagine you can stab people with a knife, and noone will know or care. What is the problem?

None unless you subscribe to the idea of karma, going to hell etc.
Anyway in reality it is not so easy and you risk being punished one way or another.