Important! - Nobody On This Forum Is AWAKE

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, How to be wise said:

@Leo Gura For me, there are two different states. The first state is where you are inside the illusion of the mind. The second is when you are fully aware of the illusion of the mind.

That's not how it works. That's incredibly simple-minded.

[Inliytened1]

5 minutes ago, OldManCorcoran said:

It happens, to nobody, so realistically he's right. Obviously if there's still somebody there, it's not ego death. You aren't going to encounter ego death by reading the forum no way.

  Yeah it happens to nobody.  IT happens.  You are an IT.  

[axiom]

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

Stare at your hand for a week.  Then come back and I'll be serious with you.  

Staring at a hand is far too interesting. Staring at a rendered concrete wall, now that's something. I don't know why more people don't do it.

[OldManCorcoran]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Not only are there degrees of Awakening, there are hundreds of different kinds of Awakening which are very different from each other.

Which is why hardly any two spiritual teachers agree with each other. Haven't you noticed they all disagree? How come? Obviously because there is no such thing as a singular Awakening. People who claim there is only one Awakening are not serious.

They disagree due to having different conceptual frameworks with which to convey a message.

I don't see how or why anything matters except what reality fundamentally is. Why does it matter if it's all an alien playing with a marble like Men in Black, when the alien itself is a manifestation of reality. Surely it only matters what the fundamental reality of which the alien is part of actually is, who would care about anything other than that?

[axiom]

30 minutes ago, Moksha said:

Love the analogy. Unfortunately the counting game never stops, you can only shrug and walk along the seashore hoping that your transient footprints may be a guide or not.

I'll take one shrug and one seashore but hold the hope.

[OldManCorcoran]

1 minute ago, axiom said:

Staring at a hand is far too interesting. Staring at a rendered concrete wall, now that's something. I don't know why more people don't do it.

I can't even fathon someone reading a forum then staring at their hand and thinking that's ego death, and being unable to function for a week.

 

Incomprehensible levels of influencability, like one of the dudes who get breathed on by their sensei and start convulsing on the floor.

For real though, good objects for meditation tend to be quite overpowering. I have a very bright yellow/orange teddy bear and that's quite good. It's easier to get lost in something visually overpowering.

[axiom]

2 minutes ago, OldManCorcoran said:

I can't even fathon someone reading a forum then staring at their hand and thinking that's ego death, and being unable to function for a week.

I was looking at my hand just now. What I saw shocked me so deeply that I could barely type afterwards - but then I have been doing a ton of DIY this week.

[Yimpa]

IMAGINATION

[VictorB02]

3 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Do you think that Leo has been carefully reading all your posts, submitting them to a thorough analysis, and after much doubt and concern, has come to the sad conclusion that you are not awake? Leo is a guy who says things, and that's it. who knows what you are? only you know

Obviously I'm not actually doing that. I was speaking poetically with my comment, as if I was a voice for all of us who have been following Leo for 5+ years.

3 hours ago, Gesundheit2 said:

Who's forcing you to debate or holding you back from communicating and exploring?

Nothing. I was addressing this community and forum specifically in that quote.

[Leo Gura]

24 minutes ago, OldManCorcoran said:

They disagree due to having different conceptual frameworks with which to convey a message.

Nope. It's way deeper than that.

[tuku747]

4 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

IMAGINATION

[Princess Arabia]

On 3/24/2023 at 2:46 AM, Leo Gura said:

How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

Lol. Say that 10x's fast.

[Breakingthewall]

The difference between being asleep or awake is this: when you are asleep, you live in your mind and your senses, you think that there is such a thing as awakening, and you would like to achieve it. One day, with a psychedelic, or meditating, or whatever, suddenly, the limits that conform to you are broken. You see that what you are is a bottomless well, and that well opens up and glory emerges. That was you and always was, the totality of existence, the sacred flow of pure love that springs from the bottomless void.

encompassing the infinite, you recognize yourself as the totality of existence. Time seems meaningless, you are always there. Your happiness is perfect. Your freedom, absolute. You have no bottom, there is no loneliness, only freedom. This seems the most normal thing in the world to you! It was always like this. You're never going to forget it, how could you! It's impossible... wait, how? Who ? I don't understand...ah, I forgot. The door that was opened has been closed... Shit, the perfection is gone, but the cup that was empty has been filled. The prodigal son has returned. And well, the door it is a little more open than it was. Nothing, never, was so real than this. Everything in life seemed in black and white, and this was in color and 3d. It's sad to live again in the fog, but what to do? Clarity all time seems impossible 

Edited March 25, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[OldManCorcoran]

54 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

  Yeah it happens to nobody.  IT happens.  You are an IT.  

The framework which doesn't use the you word is so easy it can be explained to absolutely anyone and they will understand what you're saying.

It is a common idea for people with the whole droplets and oceans, but death has no involvement of whirlpools expanding back out into rivers or any other similar ideas. The appearance of whatever constituted the person is gone, there doesn't need to be an expansion into God any more than any particular temporary sensory experience doesn't die and expand into God. A color doesn't go to Heaven when you don't see it anymore.

If you choose to comminicate using a conceptual framework including the idea of a self, you will inevitably on some level transmit to people an idea of some remnant of a witness or ego. You can't actually escape it. Because nobody will understand that if they are watching TV in bed, and someone walks by a landmark they saw earlier in that day, that they are seeing the landmark. They will always proclaim "I am not seeing the landmark, I am in bed!"

But to say the sight itself of the TV screen and the sight itself of the landmark exists, there is no confusion at all. If your friend texts you that they are looking at the Eiffel Tower and you'd been there earlier and saw it but are now in bed watching TV, the reason nobody is shocked by this is because intuitively nobody has any issue with the existence of various appearing phenomena. ALL OF THE CONFUSION is in the idea of who sees it. And that demonstrates the fact so clearly, that I cannot believe anybody would still choose to use the self framework at all. Existence appears as the sight of the tower and every single time it takes the shape of the sight of the tower, it is completely identical. Every single time it is the sight of the tower and nothing more. Regardless of who is stood there seeing it, because nobody ever sees it, there is the sight of the tower and it is present. And then it's not. And then it is. Then it's not. Every single time the same exactly as though you were there yourself, because the entire experience of seeing it is the shape reality has taken.

Edited March 25, 2023 by OldManCorcoran

[Moksha]

43 minutes ago, axiom said:

I'll take one shrug and one seashore but hold the hope.

I haven't read it since I was a kid, but within the dream there's always hope.

Look at Fletcher! Lowell! Charles-Roland! Judy Lee! Are they also special and gifted and divine? No more than you are, no more than I am. The only difference, the very only one, is that they have begun to understand what they really are and have begun to practice it.

[Inliytened1]

11 minutes ago, OldManCorcoran said:

The framework which doesn't use the you word is so easy it can be explained to absolutely anyone and they will understand what you're saying.

It is a common idea for people with the whole droplets and oceans, but death has no involvement of whirlpools expanding back out into rivers or any other similar ideas. The appearance of whatever constituted the person is gone, there doesn't need to be an expansion into God any more than any particular temporary sensory experience doesn't die and expand into God. A color doesn't go to Heaven when you don't see it anymore.

If you choose to comminicate using a conceptual framework including the idea of a self, you will inevitably on some level transmit to people an idea of some remnant of a witness or ego. You can't actually escape it. Because nobody will understand that if they are watching TV in bed, and someone walks by a landmark they saw earlier in that day, that they are seeing the landmark. They will always proclaim "I am not seeing the landmark, I am in bed!"

But to say the sight itself of the TV screen and the sight itself of the landmark exists, there is no confusion at all. If your friend texts you that they are looking at the Eiffel Tower and you'd been there earlier and saw it but are now in bed watching TV, the reason nobody is shocked by this is because intuitively nobody has any issue with the existence of various appearing phenomena. ALL OF THE CONFUSION is in the idea of who sees it. And that demonstrates the fact so clearly, that I cannot believe anybody would still choose to use the self framework at all. Existence appears as the sight of the tower and every single time it takes the shape of the sight of the tower, it is completely identical. Every single time it is the sight of the tower and nothing more. Regardless of who is stood there seeing it, because nobody ever sees it, there is the sight of the tower and it is present. And then it's not. And then it is. Then it's not. Every single time the same exactly as though you were there yourself, because the entire experience of seeing it is the shape reality has taken.

I bet you were fascinated with this inquiry.

If a tree falls in the forest with no one around, did it make a sound?

[Princess Arabia]

3 hours ago, Yimpa said:

Once this thread reaches 1,000 posts, somebody will awaken

??. I just awoken from my nap by reading it. 

[OldManCorcoran]

Just now, Inliytened1 said:

I bet you were fascinated with this inquiry.

If a tree falls in the forest with no one around, did it make a sound?

Yes definitely, and now you know that it does. Because if existence is to take the shape of the sound of a falling tree, there is the sound of the falling tree. Nobody needs to be there first. They never are.

When animals give birth, dead matter emerges from other dead matter (and generally this to us will most prominently be a visual phenomena that is the appearance of the shape of a living creature, or the sounds they make). No wonder brains do not generate consciousness or hold it like a radio signal. It is all equally dead matter. Nobody is ever there.

But does existence even necessarily have to be a perception? I don't see why it would need to take only the form of perceptions. Not that perceptions could ever be categorically different from anything which isn't perceived, since the idea of categorization is a mental thought perception which is only a shape taken by reality. And these shapes can never represent reality since they will always only be shapes and are always preceded by the pure fact of presence which is communicated when saying "I am conscious of purple", in which there is nothing to "being conscious of purple" except the sheer fact of the presence of that purple. Nothing else will ever be found in that statement except the communication that purple is present. It is the fact of presence being communicated and nothing more.

In the common scientist's framework, no qualia can ever be what is actual to the world because it can never exist outside the mind that thinks it. The same way, a thought such as the idea of existent categories can never be anything other than a thought perception, and reality precedes thought perception. Thought perceptions will always just be shapes taken by reality. Something and nothing are other conceptual categories which exist as thought perception. Nothing ever changes if the concepts stop occurring, but the categorizations can stop happening. And all of these words and ideas are still more thought perceptions which are shapes reality is appearing as.

Breathtaking.

[Inliytened1]

2 minutes ago, OldManCorcoran said:

Yes definitely, and now you know that it does. Because if existence is to take the shape of the sound of a falling tree,

I stopped reading here.  You are lost in the materialist paradigm.  But the truth of the matter is this - there isn't a tree at all, outside of how it is held within your consciousness right now.  Right now.  And if you can't see that, refrain from further dialogue with me.  Yeah, I'm touchy.   I'm just sick of you materialists.  You contemplated reality perhaps a bit, and then you dropped it for what is accepted.  I have no patience for that.

[Breakingthewall]

@OldManCorcoran you are the reality. There is not outside from the reality, even as a concept. The reality is absolute. Has no opposite, no outside, no other. Looking outside is the deception, there is not outside. Inside it's everything.