Important! - Nobody On This Forum Is AWAKE

[Moksha]

@Water by the River

Bodhi originally has no tree, but me.
The mirror has no stand, save where I stand.
The Buddha-nature is always clear and pure, beside myself there is no more.
Where is there room for dust, to entertain myself is now a must?

Amazing how much space there is here on the other shore, all boats welcome!

[Breakingthewall]

7 minutes ago, Moksha said:

Has it started to realize the absolute within and beyond other apparent forms yet?

No, when I'm with others i get too immersed in the appearance. Maybe some day not far. Id say that this "process" is quite fast when the reaction starts 

 

 

[Water by the River]

9 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Any idea is a wall, but the idea of others is a big one because prevents you to become absolute

Yes.

If you work carefully with Solipsism, and what I have read from you so far sounds very responsible. Danger is: When there is no other, there can still be you. Only you. One. Not One without a second. One, but not fully nondual/impersonal. 

Breakingthewall, from what I read you understand this very well, the danger and potential of that concept. Please allow me some general musings on the topic, not specifically adressed to you.

The idea that the ego/separate self is God is the worst idea one can have. We agree on that. Blows up that which one has to kill/transcend. The opposite of Neti Neti. Shooting oneself in the knee and then starting the Marathon, and saying: I have done a good preparation for the run.

At least in my perspective, there is zero problem for integrating the different views concerning Solipsism, and its partial truths:

• Solipsism on the level of the separate self: Wrong. The separate self IS NOT GOD or Reality. Ones True Being (Nothingness) is Infinite Reality, not the separate-self-cloud covering exactly that deep impersonal immortal always here True Identity.
• Solipsism on the level of the Absolute/Infinite Consciousness/Universal Mind: right. But totally useless once one is there, because it is just another fake concept floating in ones most obvious True Being. One snips it off like a fly. And before being there, it harms one also, because in any way it blows up ones ego, even if very subtle. And even if its just one more concept floating in oneself. I never had the need to think in Solipsistic terms while letting Nonduality ripen. Never. It would have only hurt me on the path, probably big time.

How to get rid of "other", the loving style:

• And if one starts really feeling and intuiting that ones own being and consciousness is looking out from the eyes from another human (or any being): You would never ever start with ideas of Solipsism. Never. Instead, that beginning recognition is the highest level of empathy and love.
• But at that moment, there is no "you". Just impersonal Consciousness, in you, and the "other". It doesn't even make sense to say there is no other, because that implies that you are there (as concept and subtle separate self identity, not as Reality), because there really is no other. But also no you. Not one, but One without a second. Nondual, and not just Union of one with the Totality.
• So one  can't say there is only me. There is only THAT. And nothing more can be said about that. And it is not one! It is not two! It is the one without a second. Nondual. Not one. 
• And THAT  is love, THAT is impersonal being, THAT is the essence of all of Reality. And THAT is also Nothingness.

But anyway: If one thinks about it while on the way of getting to the Absolute, the concept of Solipsism is not useful. And when "one" is there, it is another crappy and redundant concept floating through oneself that also doesn't make sense.

Which means nothing else then: The concept is not useful at any point in time on the path. It is a half-true half-false concept, making it completely false. Like every half-truth. If one wants to get home fast, better forget about it! Or use it with extreme care.

I personally would rather recommend dissolving each and every concept, let real nonduality (an awakened state) ripen in an nonceonceptual empty mindstream, than playing Russian Roulette with such a concept. Ones separate self is not even dead when the shot goes off, but even more alive and bigger than ever....

 

Selling Water by the River

Edited May 25, 2023 by Water by the River

[Breakingthewall]

28 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

Koan for Actualized: Does the "Other" of a solipsist have Buddha Nature?

he has, since the other is him

[Water by the River]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

he has, since the other is him

I guess the smack from the Zen Master for that answer would be a bit softer than the smack for "there are no others"  

Probably, the feedback for the latter answer would be delivered with mucho-extra-grande-compassionate-punch.

 

Selling Water by the River

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, Water by the River said:

guess the smack from the Zen Master for that answer would be a bit softer than the smack for "there are no others

The correct answer would be: yes, the other has buddha nature, from a relative point of view. from an absolute point of view, the other merges with me and only me, the now, remains, encompassing everything. But sure the zen master would hit me with the stick anyway, the bastard

[Carl-Richard]

2 hours ago, Razard86 said:

It's the only Truth. There is only One perspective. There are no other bubbles of perception, there is one bubble and that bubble is the Absolute. 

I doubt you make a distinction between perception and consciousness, but I'll say it anyway:

Your bubble of perception is an illusion. Perception is limited human bias. Consciousness is beyond your bubble of perception.

Edited May 24, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Moksha]

53 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

No, when I'm with others i get too immersed in the appearance. Maybe some day not far. Id say that this "process" is quite fast when the reaction starts 

It's like a fireworks show, with a single rocket spiraling upward and exploding, to illuminate the sky above your head. Before long a few more fireworks offer their light. Eventually the entire sky is filled with cascades of light, a cacophony of patterns and colors dancing everywhere in maya. Finally, the  serenity of night.

Within and beyond all of it, the fireworks and the night sky, the absolute attends its phenomenal dream.

[Yimpa]

Leo Gura is rolling in his grave right now ?

[Razard86]

2 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

I doubt you make a distinction between perception and consciousness, but I'll say it anyway:

Your bubble of perception is an illusion. Perception is limited human bias. Consciousness is beyond your bubble of perception.

Perception is awareness why would I make a distinction. A blind man is not aware of visual appearances. A deaf man is not aware of sound. A person who loses the ability to feel, is not aware of physical stimuli.

https://www.actualized.org/insights?p=4

https://www.actualized.org/insights?p=7

There is nothing to correct. All distinctions are imaginary.

[Carl-Richard]

11 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

Perception is awareness why would I make a distinction. A blind man is not aware of visual appearances. A deaf man is not aware of sound. A person who loses the ability to feel, is not aware of physical stimuli.

https://www.actualized.org/insights?p=4

https://www.actualized.org/insights?p=7

There is nothing to correct. All distinctions are imaginary.

Yet here you are — making distinctions between awareness, visual appearances, sound and physical stimuli.

Edited May 25, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Razard86]

12 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Yet here you are — making distinctions between awareness, visual appearances, sound and physical stimuli.

I'm not, I'm giving examples of how it expresses to make a point. Consciousness IS, whatever you are experiencing, THAT is what it is at that moment. It's a shapeshifter. It CANNOT be BEYOND anything because it is everything. We say its not bound by time and space because it can appear as time and space.

https://www.actualized.org/insights/actualized-quotes-020

It's nothing, it's love, and it appears as the things listed above. As long as it appears as those things, then in that moment that is what it is. But those are all relative, impermanent appearances so they are ultimately a lie because they are not permanent.

The only permanent is absolute solipsism of the self. The self is alone for all eternity. 

Look if you haven't awakened fully....why are you even playing these word games? Unless you are here to get understanding to use in contemplation for awakening...you are just distracting yourself.

I only drop by here to add illumination from all the traps and confusion people can fall into. I try to point people to the videos Leo made that can help them understand and make sense of things. A lot of people on the forum are corrupting the teachings and I'm just helping correct that. I do think that should be the Moderator's role but whatever.

Edited May 25, 2023 by Razard86

[Princess Arabia]

32 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

I'm not, I'm giving examples of how it expresses to make a point. Consciousness IS, whatever you are experiencing, THAT is what it is at that moment. It's a shapeshifter. It CANNOT be BEYOND anything because it is everything. We say its not bound by time and space because it can appear as time and space.

It's nothing, it's love, and it appears as the things listed above. As long as it appears as those things, then in that moment that is what it is. But those are all relative, impermanent appearances so they are ultimately a lie because they are not permanent.

The only permanent is absolute solipsism of the self. The self is alone for all eternity. 

Look if you haven't awakened fully....why are you even playing these word games? Unless you are here to get understanding to use in contemplation for awakening...you are just distracting yourself.

I only drop by here to add illumination from all the traps and confusion people can fall into. I try to point people to the videos Leo made that can help them understand and make sense of things. A lot of people on the forum are corrupting the teachings and I'm just helping correct that. I do think that should be the Moderator's role but whatever.

It's OK. There are people here reading comments and gaining knowledge even if they're not posting. You never know whose lives you can inspire or change by sharing your knowledge. Sometimes it takes a while for something to click and register and it's not just the moderators job but all of us play a part.

[Breakingthewall]

5 hours ago, Razard86 said:

I'm not, I'm giving examples of how it expresses to make a point. Consciousness IS, whatever you are experiencing, THAT is what it is at that moment. It's a shapeshifter. It CANNOT be BEYOND anything because it is everything. We say its not bound by time and space because it can appear as time and space.

It's nothing, it's love, and it appears as the things listed above. As long as it appears as those things, then in that moment that is what it is. But those are all relative, impermanent appearances so they are ultimately a lie because they are not permanent.

The only permanent is absolute solipsism of the self. The self is alone for all eternity. 

Look if you haven't awakened fully....why are you even playing these word games? Unless you are here to get understanding to use in contemplation for awakening...you are just distracting yourself.

I only drop by here to add illumination from all the traps and confusion people can fall into. I try to point people to the videos Leo made that can help them understand and make sense of things. A lot of people on the forum are corrupting the teachings and I'm just helping correct that. I do think that should be the Moderator's role but whatever.

That's correct and it is the preparation of the mind for the real awakening. It is not the same to know that you are alone than to break all limits and be the total absolute infinity. that is beyond any description, since you cannot think it, even if you have experienced it many times, since the mind works in a relative way, that is, contrasting some things with others. the absolute escapes the mind, it is another dimension. to open yourself to it you must drop even the idea of solipsism. your mind must be without barriers, empty. Then you could expand yourself to the infinity and be what you really are

[Water by the River]

9 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

The correct answer would be: yes, the other has buddha nature, from a relative point of view. from an absolute point of view, the other merges with me and only me, the now, remains, encompassing everything. But sure the zen master would hit me with the stick anyway, the bastard

Yes to all of it .

And as you write, the Zen Master will slap one anyway. Only exceptions: He apprehends the same enlightened impersonal(!) mindstream of empty impersonal Infinite Consciousness that he knows "himself" to be in his interior/perspective. And apprehend/see that he can in Real Life perfectly fine... Takes one to know one.

Then, one could say something completely incorrect on the relative level: The Absolute is Raspberry (Ralston once did). And one would still pass... But if in doubt, the smack & go and meditate/transcend/integrate/grow-up more is probably always helpful, even when already having a nice piece of real-estate on the Absolute Side of the Street....

Zen doesn't like basking in relative concepts. Probably the Zen Master would leave yours truly barely alive....  

But hey, words and relative concepts are all we got here in the forum, and the voice of the "fully Absolute Side of the Street" is already doing very fine... Yours truly also dreams about fully retiring over there, and just sprouting out Koans like "frog pond plop" all day long and smile.... , but will stay & do the conceptual thing on the relative side of the street until time being.

Selling Water by the River 

[Yimpa]

10 hours ago, Razard86 said:

A lot of people on the forum are corrupting the teachings and I'm just helping correct that. I do think that should be the Moderator's role but whatever.

Sounds ripe for the creation of a cult if it were to be that way!

In any case, people have to think for themselves. 

[Razard86]

11 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

It's OK. There are people here reading comments and gaining knowledge even if they're not posting. You never know whose lives you can inspire or change by sharing your knowledge. Sometimes it takes a while for something to click and register and it's not just the moderators job but all of us play a part.

I knew I liked you. lol

[Razard86]

1 hour ago, Yimpa said:

Sounds ripe for the creation of a cult if it were to be that way!

In any case, people have to think for themselves. 

The only constant is Oneness, outside of that everything is at play. Can't be a cult when Spirituality pushes for you to think for yourself. A Cult says you have no authority. Spirituality says the SOLE authority is truth.

What is the Truth? Reality is ONE, APPEARING to be MANY. That MANY is ABSOLUTE INFINITY. That ONE is NOTHING, and that is why it can be ABSOLUTE INFINITY. And why is it appearing? LOVE. What is LOVE? LOVE IS AN ABSOLUTE UNITY EXPRESSING ITSELF IN ABSOLUTE INFINITE WAYS. WHY? FOR NO REASON AT ALL. IT HAS NO AGENDA BUT ITSELF. TO KNOW AND LOVE ITSELF AN ABSOLUTE INFINITE NUMBER OF WAYS THROUGH SELF-EXPLORATION.

I only did the caps above for dramatic effect.

[Princess Arabia]

6 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

I knew I liked you. lol

I loovveeeeee you. Lol. 

[Razard86]

18 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

I loovveeeeee you. Lol. 

Love you more. lol