Important! - Nobody On This Forum Is AWAKE

[CARDOZZO]

What do you all think?

If you are completely AWAKE, do you even bother to join discussions on a forum? Do you even care to talk about Spirituality? Because Spirituality is the path not the TRUTH.

I don't know what to say, think or assume about that.

I'll contemplate.

Edited May 24, 2023 by CARDOZZO

[CARDOZZO]

It's sad because humans tend to be pretenders and seekers, never arriving, always chasing Spirituality and other ways of feeling good about themselves.

What a trick path we are triving... oh GOD!  

Edited May 24, 2023 by CARDOZZO

[Water by the River]

52 minutes ago, CARDOZZO said:

What do you all think?

If you are completely AWAKE, do you even bother to join discussions on a forum? Do you even care to talk about Spirituality? Because Spirituality is the path not the TRUTH.

I don't know what to say, think or assume about that.

I'll contemplate.

Ken Wilber, One Taste:

"Monday, March 24. With the awakening of constant consciousness, you becomesomething of a divine schizophrenic, in the popular sense of “split-minded,” because you have access to both the Witnessand the ego. You are actually “whole-minded,” but it sounds like it’s split, because you are aware of the constant Witness or Spirit in you, and you are also perfectly aware of themovie of life, the ego and all its ups and downs. So you still feel pain and suffering and sorrow, but they can no longer convince you of their importance—you are no longer the victim of life, but its Witness.

In fact, because you are no longer afraid of your feelings,you can engage them with much greater intensity. The movie of life becomes more vivid and vibrant, precisely because you are no longer grasping or avoiding it, and thus no longer trying to dull or dilute it. You no longer turn the volume down. You might even cry harder, laugh louder, jump higher. Choiceless awareness doesn’t mean you cease to feel; it means you feel fully, feel deeply, feel to infinity itself, and laugh and cry and love until it hurts. Life jumps right off the screen, and you are one with all of it, because you don’t recoil.

If you are having a dream, and you think it’s real, it can get very scary. Say you are dreaming that you are tightropewalking across Niagara Falls. If you fall off, you plunge to your death. So you are walking very slowly, very carefully.Then suppose you start lucid dreaming, and you realize that it’s just a dream. What do you do? Become more cautious and careful? No, you start jumping up and down on the tightrope, you do flips, you bounce around, you have a ball—precisely because you know it isn’t real. When you realize it’s a dream, you can afford to play.

The same thing happens when you realize that ordinary life is just a dream, just a movie, just a play. You don’t become more cautious, more timid, more reserved. You start jumping up and down and doing flips, precisely because it’sall a dream, it’s all pure Emptiness. You don’t feel less, you feel more—because you can afford to. You are no longer afraid of dying, and therefore you are not afraid of living.You become radical and wild, intense and vivid, shocking and silly. You let it all come pouring through, because it’s all your dream.

Life then assumes its true intensity, its vivid luminosity, itsradical effervescence. Pain is more painful and happiness is happier; joy is more joyous and sorrow is even sadder. It all comes radiantly alive to the mirror-mind, the mind that doesn’t grasp or avoid, but simply witnesses the play, and therefore can afford to play, even as it watches.

What would motivate you if you saw everything as the dream of your own highest Self? What would actually move you in this playful dream world? Everything in the dream is basically fun, at some deep level, except for this: when you see your friends suffering because they think the dream is real, you want to relieve their suffering, you want them to wake up, too. Watching them suffer is not fun. And so a deep and powerful compassion arises in the heart of the awakened ones, and they seek, above all else, to awaken others—and thus relieve them from the sorrow and the pity,the torment and the pain, the terror and the anguish that comes from taking with dreadful seriousness the passing dream of life.

So you are a divine schizophrenic, you are “split-minded” in the sense that you are simultaneously in touch with both the pure Witness and the world of the ego-film. But that really means you are actually “whole-minded,” because these two worlds are really not-two. The ego is just the dream of the Witness, the film that the Witness creates out of its own infinite plenitude, simply so it will have something to watch at the movies.

At that point the entire play arises within your own constant consciousness. There is no inside and no outside, no in here versus out there. The nondual universe of One Taste arises as a spontaneous gesture of your own true nature. You can taste the sun and swallow the moon, and centuries fit in the palm of your hand. The pure I-I, the greatI AMness, breathes to infinity and creates a Kosmos as the Song of its very Self, and oceans of compassion fall as tears from your very own Original Face.

Last night I saw the reflection of the moon in a cool clear crystal pond, and nothing else happened."

 

Selling Water by the River

Edited May 24, 2023 by Water by the River

[Breakingthewall]

@Water by the River great text, thanks for sharing

[CARDOZZO]

@Water by the River Ken Wilber is awesome.

Divine Schizophrenic is a perfect name for an AWAKE human  

It's hard telling people that they are dreaming when they put their hands on fire and it hurts  

Pain is a feature not a bug.

[Princess Arabia]

17 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

Ken Wilber, One Taste:

"Monday, March 24. With the awakening of constant consciousness, you becomesomething of a divine schizophrenic, in the popular sense of “split-minded,” because you have access to both the Witnessand the ego. You are actually “whole-minded,” but it sounds like it’s split, because you are aware of the constant Witness or Spirit in you, and you are also perfectly aware of themovie of life, the ego and all its ups and downs. So you still feel pain and suffering and sorrow, but they can no longer convince you of their importance—you are no longer the victim of life, but its Witness.In fact, because you are no longer afraid of your feelings,you can engage them with much greater intensity. The movie of life becomes more vivid and vibrant, precisely because you are no longer grasping or avoiding it, and thus no longer trying to dull or dilute it. You no longer turn the volume down. You might even cry harder, laugh louder, jump higher. Choiceless awareness doesn’t mean you cease to feel; it means you feel fully, feel deeply, feel to infinity itself, and laugh and cry and love until it hurts. Life jumps right off the screen, and you are one with all of it, because you don’t recoil.If you are having a dream, and you think it’s real, it can get very scary. Say you are dreaming that you are tightropewalking across Niagara Falls. If you fall off, you plunge to your death. So you are walking very slowly, very carefully.Then suppose you start lucid dreaming, and you realize that it’s just a dream. What do you do? Become more cautious and careful? No, you start jumping up and down on the tightrope, you do flips, you bounce around, you have a ball—precisely because you know it isn’t real. When you realize it’s a dream, you can afford to play.The same thing happens when you realize that ordinary life is just a dream, just a movie, just a play. You don’t become more cautious, more timid, more reserved. You start jumping up and down and doing flips, precisely because it’sall a dream, it’s all pure Emptiness. You don’t feel less, you feel more—because you can afford to. You are no longer afraid of dying, and therefore you are not afraid of living.You become radical and wild, intense and vivid, shocking and silly. You let it all come pouring through, because it’s all your dream. Life then assumes its true intensity, its vivid luminosity, itsradical effervescence. Pain is more painful and happiness is happier; joy is more joyous and sorrow is even sadder. It all comes radiantly alive to the mirror-mind, the mind that doesn’t grasp or avoid, but simply witnesses the play, and therefore can afford to play, even as it watches. What would motivate you if you saw everything as the dream of your own highest Self? What would actually move you in this playful dream world? Everything in the dream is basically fun, at some deep level, except for this: when you see your friends suffering because they think the dream is real, you want to relieve their suffering, you want them to wake up, too. Watching them suffer is not fun. And so a deep and powerful compassion arises in the heart of the awakened ones, and they seek, above all else, to awaken others—and thus relieve them from the sorrow and the pity,the torment and the pain, the terror and the anguish that comes from taking with dreadful seriousness the passing dream of life.So you are a divine schizophrenic, you are “split-minded” in the sense that you are simultaneously in touch with both the pure Witness and the world of the ego-film. But that really means you are actually “whole-minded,” because these two worlds are really not-two. The ego is just the dream of the Witness, the film that the Witness creates out of its own infinite plenitude, simply so it will have something to watch at the movies. At that point the entire play arises within your own constant consciousness. There is no inside and no outside, no in here versus out there. The nondual universe of One Taste arises as a spontaneous gesture of your own true nature. You can taste the sun and swallow the moon, and centuries fit in the palm of your hand. The pure I-I, the greatI AMness, breathes to infinity and creates a Kosmos as the Song of its very Self, and oceans of compassion fall as tears from your very own Original Face. Last night I saw the reflection of the moon in a cool clear crystal pond, and nothing else happened."

 

Selling Water by the River

Marvelous 

[Princess Arabia]

1 hour ago, StarStruck said:

@Yimpa

 

Lol

[Water by the River]

And the dream doesn't stop. Even after waking up, the dream/show continues.

• And if one goes Wake Up, Grow up, Clean Up, Show Up, one can have a happy lucid dream.
• And if one spiritual-bypasses, one can have a nightmare. And then it is more challenging staying lucid in.

Also, controversial topic, but here is my take:

• The separate self is an illusion, but appears.
• And same with the soul. It is an illusion, but appears. So it has "relative" reality as illusion, just like the separate-self.
  • It takes the aspects of wisdom/transcendence and love/compassion of a being/perspective from life to life. At least according to Tibetan Buddhism, at least these two aspects are the soul that don't die with death.
  • The bundle of karmic imprints that goes from one life to the next. It is also just an illusion, but appears. 

Do you think any being that has woken up would cut off his hand just for fun? Do "dumb" things that make life not a celebration, but "hey, today I feel like cutting off my hand just to see the drama of it". Because it is just an illusion? Yeah, very smart....  , and for sure that what the Kosmos wants....

And same with the illusion of the soul and Karma.

This whole universe is growing to more complexity, and humanity is also not going in a circle stone age - industrial age - all gets blown up - stone age - ... - n+1 for the 100s time. No, it goes directly, and fast, from bacteria-plant-animal-human-awakening of some- awakening of more - .... Ken Wilber calls that drive of the Kosmos Eros, or growth to higher integration and complexity.

And then maybe an upload of the whole hive-mind to subtle realities (Andrew Gallimore, "Alien Information Theory: Psychedelic Drug Technologies and the Cosmic Game"). That would perfectly explain the Fermi-Paradoxon. But hey, I am rambling on. Luckily, my other posts are rather short.... 

Ken Wilber also said: When you have seen, and don't tell, your soul gets very very sick.

So, woken up or not, want a celebration or a night-mare? Yours truly just loved the effects of not cutting off his hand for fun so far.... 

Selling Water by the River

 

Although my view is higher than the sky,

My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour.

– Padmasambhava 

 

 

Edited May 24, 2023 by Water by the River

[Moksha]

@Water by the River Beautiful quote from Ken Wilbur, thanks for sharing. ?

We sometimes think of the human form as a single-layered container, but it is more like a babushka doll:

It is a composite of nested forms, progressing in refinement from the gross (physical) to the subtle (mental) and finally to the supra-subtle (soul).

Each of these forms is also made of maya, but progressively brings awareness closer to its formless state. When realization goes deep, even beyond the soul, there is only pure awareness. The witness and the witnessed conflate into the absolute reality beyond both.

[Water by the River]

9 minutes ago, Moksha said:

 When realization goes deep, even beyond the soul, there is only pure awareness. The witness and the witnessed conflate into the absolute reality beyond both.

Yes, fully agree. I just wrote about the soul (reluctantly, and highlighting its relative and illusion level), because its quite easy to ignore Karma and cause-effect when flying high on "its all imagined".

Water by the River

[CARDOZZO]

@Water by the River Can you make a list of the teachers, practices and books that shaped your spiritual path? 

[Princess Arabia]

1 hour ago, Water by the River said:

And the dream doesn't stop. Even after waking up, the dream/show continues.

• And if one goes Wake Up, Grow up, Clean Up, Show Up, one can have a happy lucid dream.
• And if one spiritual-bypasses, one can have a nightmare. And then it is more challenging staying lucid in.

Also, controversial topic, but here is my take:

• The separate self is an illusion, but appears.
• And same with the soul. It is an illusion, but appears. So it has "relative" reality as illusion, just like the separate-self.
  • It takes the aspects of wisdom/transcendence and love/compassion of a being/perspective from life to life. At least according to Tibetan Buddhism, at least these two aspects are the soul that don't die with death.
  • The bundle of karmic imprints that goes from one life to the next. It is also just an illusion, but appears. 

Do you think any being that has woken up would cut off his hand just for fun? Do "dumb" things that make life not a celebration, but "hey, today I feel like cutting off my hand just to see the drama of it". Because it is just an illusion? Yeah, very smart....  , and for sure that what the Kosmos wants....

And same with the illusion of the soul and Karma.

This whole universe is growing to more complexity, and humanity is also not going in a circle stone age - industrial age - all gets blown up - stone age - ... - n+1 for the 100s time. No, it goes directly, and fast, from bacteria-plant-animal-human-awakening of some- awakening of more - .... Ken Wilber calls that drive of the Kosmos Eros, or growth to higher integration and complexity.

And then maybe an upload of the whole hive-mind to subtle realities (Andrew Gallimore, "Alien Information Theory: Psychedelic Drug Technologies and the Cosmic Game"). That would perfectly explain the Fermi-Paradoxon. But hey, I am rambling on. Luckily, my other posts are rather short.... 

Ken Wilber also said: When you have seen, and don't tell, your soul gets very very sick.

So, woken up or not, want a celebration or a night-mare? Yours truly just loved the effects of not cutting off his hand for fun so far.... 

Selling Water by the River

 

Although my view is higher than the sky,

My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour.

– Padmasambhava 

 

 

When writing anything of value and of a higher level, please don't apologize for how long it is. If someone prefers to go read about someone else's sex life or whose smoking or not let them do that. I'd rather read a lengthy post of value than a bunch of mumbo jumbo nonsense, that even myself might engage in. 

[Moksha]

57 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

I just wrote about the soul (reluctantly, and highlighting its relative and illusion level), because its quite easy to ignore Karma and cause-effect when flying high on "its all imagined".

Completely agree. This forum seems stuck in a perpetual struggle with solipsism, which devalues the dream and leaves people feeling lonely and feckless. It's an insidious snare, and needs to be called out whenever it whack-a-moles itself into yet another thread.

The cosmos, including each form engaging with this forum, is here for a reason. Awakening doesn't diminish the beauty of the dream. To the contrary, lucid dreaming enhances the vibrancy of every experience. It is the highest and deepest adventure.

Your quote from Ken Wilbur said it more eloquently than me, I can only fully endorse what he said.

[OldManCorcoran]

1 hour ago, Moksha said:

@Water by the River Beautiful quote from Ken Wilbur, thanks for sharing. ?

We sometimes think of the human form as a single-layered container, but it is more like a babushka doll:

It is a composite of nested forms, progressing in refinement from the gross (physical) to the subtle (mental) and finally to the supra-subtle (soul).

Each of these forms is also made of maya, but progressively brings awareness closer to its formless state. When realization goes deep, even beyond the soul, there is only pure awareness. The witness and the witnessed conflate into the absolute reality beyond both.

My most significant breakthrough trip of all time involved these dolls. Or after the event anyway, I interpreted it as being the smallest doll and the shells around me shattering one by one as I was propelled upwards from my ego. It was quite a fast propulsion... I was on a cocktail of psychedelics and then I hit a bunch of DMT hence the intensity and speed of it.

I cannot be the same since.

[Breakingthewall]

34 minutes ago, Moksha said:

This forum seems stuck in a perpetual struggle with solipsism

People misunderstand solipsism, they take it as dogma. solipsism is just an awakening aid. It is an idea that works as a key to dissolve limits. You know that ideas are just ideas and that to awake you have to leave them behind, right? god, truth, soul, cosmos, ultimately mean nothing, just pimters. Same the solipsism. ultimately you are infinity. this is real, it is also just a word but it points to a reality. the others are within the game of light that the dream is. Inside you are the others, the cosmos and everything. Outside is an illusion, a mirrors game.

 

Edited May 24, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Yimpa]

3 hours ago, CARDOZZO said:

What do you all think?

If you are completely AWAKE, do you even bother to join discussions on a forum? Do you even care to talk about Spirituality? Because Spirituality is the path not the TRUTH.

I don't know what to say, think or assume about that.

I'll contemplate.

YES!

Because all of THIS is REALITY!

Fuck yeah! 69th page baby!

Edited May 24, 2023 by Yimpa

[Moksha]

@OldManCorcoran ⚡Who knew the insight intersection of psychedelics and suffering would be symbolized by a babushka doll 

@Breakingthewall Why settle for an idea that continues to mislead and confuse people, instead of diving directly into the source? When people read "you are infinity", they conflate "you" with their form perspective. They believe that only their awareness is real, and that the rest of the cosmos (even family members) is their imagination. They don't understand that their form is equally being imagined, and that the absolute is imagining itself through countless other forms, including those that they encounter within the dream. It is a false perspective that leads to a deeply egoic sense of loneliness and annihilism.

I've never read the writings of a mystic that endorses this false idea, nor has it ever occurred to me. I may be mistaken, but solipsism seems to happen most often to people that have tried psychedelics. Not to say the idea can't eventually be dropped, but why perpetuate it in the first place?

[Yimpa]

32 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

You know that ideas are just ideas and that to awake you have to leave them behind, right?

Ideas are not just ideas. Only a human would claim such a thing. 

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, Moksha said:

and that the absolute is imagining itself through countless other forms,

You know that this is just an idea, right? we have to distinguish between idea and reality. idea is second order, only reality, now, is first order . No idea is real. Reality is non conceptual. You know that perfectly id say.

3 minutes ago, Moksha said:

Why settle for an idea that continues to mislead and confuse people, instead of diving directly into the source?

How many people in the world , today and throughout the history of humanity have gone directly to the source? 

4 minutes ago, Moksha said:

I've never read the writings of a mystic that endorses this false idea, nor has it ever occurred to me.

If you are in a moment of real awakening, you truly and completely dissolve into the absolute that you are. There are others? there is something? only the infinite that is everything, reality. 

7 minutes ago, Moksha said:

but why perpetuate it in the first place?

Because it's an idea that could erase the main limitation: the idea of others"out" of you. In an absolute sense, there is not outside. The idea Outside maintains you dreaming

[Yimpa]

6 minutes ago, Moksha said:

I've never read the writings of a mystic that endorses this false idea, nor has it ever occurred to me. I may be mistaken, but solipsism seems to happen most often to people that have tried psychedelics. Not to say the idea can't eventually be dropped, but why perpetuate it in the first place?

And that is the beauty of reality. Ideas change, but alas we are still pointing at the same “thing”. Perhaps we are doing so at an even higher vantage point, but of course that still depends on how you look at it.

Imagine if God had to claim that a banana is the truest idea in the universe for all of eternity? I wouldn’t want anything to do with that kind of teaching… at least in the long-term.

—

@Breakingthewall