Important! - Nobody On This Forum Is AWAKE

[Zion]

@Leo Gura Interesting, I guess we'll see if anyone comes to meet those qualifications by means of coincidence. Wonder how you measure how deeply someone understands something, & how you compare it to that of your own.. How you understand the depth of understanding; I suppose thats the true determiner of whether you can see one's true experience of god. I'm sure we'll eventually get more in-depth content from you explaining more about what you see understanding to be & why you value it as such. That will be very helpful in the determining of how full of shit you are 

[Zion]

18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

When I hear someone telling me that they have meditated their way to GOD, to me this is laughably shallow. Nobody will ever meditate or self-inquire his way to the things I've become conscious of. I have lots of experience dealing with such people, and I find flaws in all them. GOD is too profound for such things.

Perhaps you're confusing material expression with embodiment & self-understanding, as not everyone outwardly expresses what they embody & understand within themself.

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, Zion said:

Wonder how you measure how deeply someone understands something

That cannot be explained. It involves my entire life experience.

It's like you're asking a massive neutral network with 1 billion parameters how it knows something.

Edited April 4, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Blackhawk]

@Leo Gura So it's impossible for me to awaken since I don't tolerate psychedelics? (I can only get bad delusional trips on psychedelics).

[Leo Gura]

14 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

@Leo Gura So it's impossible for me to awaken since I don't tolerate psychedelics?

There are many degrees of awakening. Lesser degrees are accessible via meditation and self-inquiry.

Quote

(I can only get bad delusional trips on psychedelics).

That sounds to me like you are just not using them properly, or you haven't found the right ones for you.

Which is what my course is designed to assist with.

I would never tell someone that awakening is impossible, you just gotta find a suitable method for you. Psychedelics are not suitable for all people. They will not work on some people for whatever genetic reasons. Then you can try meditation or yoga or something else.

Edited April 4, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Blackhawk]

18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

There are many degrees of awakening. Lesser degrees are accessible via meditation and self-inquiry.

That sounds to me like you are just not using them properly, or you haven't found the right ones for you.

Which is what my course is designed to assist with.

I would never tell someone that awakening is impossible, you just gotta find a suitable method for you. Psychedelics are not suitable for all people. They will not work on some people for whatever genetic reasons. Then you can try meditation or yoga or something else.

Okay, thanks

[Jwayne]

58 minutes ago, Zion said:

Perhaps you're confusing material expression with embodiment & self-understanding, as not everyone outwardly expresses what they embody & understand within themself.

Understanding without embodiment is not understanding but merely verbal/intellectual. Understanding comes with material transformation as reflected in lived experience, presence, intellection, action, speech, personal qualities and so forth.

[Leo Gura]

29 minutes ago, Jwayne said:

Understanding without embodiment is not understanding but merely verbal/intellectual.

No.

Understanding is more fundamental than embodiment. Embodiment is always secondary and derivative.

You cannot embody what you do not understand. And understanding does not necessitate embodiment. Pure Consciousness is distinct from embodiment. This is one of big mistakes of nondualist and Buddhist dogma. They emphasize embodiment more than pure understanding, which leads to self-deception. You have to understand what the fuck is going on first before you run off like a fool to embody it.

I swear, these Buddhists are fucking monkeys doing cartwheels. Step #1 is understanding that Buddhism and nonduality are imaginary.

Edited April 4, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Jwayne]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No.

Understanding is more fundamental than embodiment. Embodiment is always secondary and derivative.

You cannot embody what you do not understand. And understanding does not necessitate embodiment. Pure Consciousness is distinct from embodiment. This is one of big mistakes of nondualist and Buddhist dogma. They emphasize embodiment more than pure understanding, which leads to self-deception. You have to understand what the fuck is going on first before you run off like a fool to embody it.

I swear, these Buddhists are fucking monkeys doing cartwheels.

Whatever you understand will be reflected in your action at some level. That's embodiment, it is learning. It cannot be otherwise unless we remove all significance from the word 'understanding.'

 

Obviously you cannot embody what you don't understand. That's pretention.

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Jwayne said:

Whatever you understand will be reflected in your action at some level.

Not necessarily.

You can understand the whole universe and then go murder somebody. Does not change your understanding.

Edited April 4, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Jwayne]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Not necessarily.

You can understand the whole universe and then go murder somebody. Does not change your understanding.

That assumes not-murdering is a necessary outcome of understanding.

In that case, I would argue, your action to murder was necessarily informed by understanding. It is certainly not divorced from understanding, so to speak. Because whatever you understand is with you - inescapably - in your decision-making.

Edited April 4, 2023 by Jwayne

[Leo Gura]

Changing your behavior is distinct from Consciousness/understanding.

By conflating these two things or placing behavior above it, you will get into all sorts of trouble. This is a classic trap.

Edited April 4, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Blackhawk said:

@Leo Gura So it's impossible for me to awaken since I don't tolerate psychedelics? (I can only get bad delusional trips on psychedelics).

13 hours ago, Moksha said:

 

There are two phases in the use of psychedelics. the first, which is hard trips, consists of revealing your subconscious and bringing it to the surface. Face your deepest fears. serious fears, since being human is trauma. this requires intelligence and courage. once your subconscious has merged with the conscious, the second phase begins, the mystic. This is serious hard work, not a magic pill for happiness.

[Jwayne]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Changing your behavior is distinct from Consciousness/understanding.

By conflating these two things or placing behavior above it, you will get into all sorts of trouble. This is a classic trap.

Changing your behavior can happen as a conscious intent to 'make a change' or can be a consequence of a transformation of substance (i.e. learning).

Consciously changing your behavior so as to appear as higher understanding to others and then to gloat with their approval, is, of course, a trap of self-delusion.

Edited April 4, 2023 by Jwayne

[Inliytened1]

2 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

 

I get that you understand finite things.

I don't understand how you can comprehend infinity. There isn't anything to comprehend since it's everything.

You can dream about a demon riding a bicycle having an elf on his shoulder and there isn't anything to understand about it.

It's simply one configuration of the infinity of imagination/perception or you can even say it's infinity itself. 

Maybe it's a different type of comprehension. 

Damn I need to take psychedelics fast. 

Trust me on this...you can understand Infinity.   Only it must be AS infinity.   The finite cannot grasp the Infinite.   But the Infinite, IS itself, and thus can grasp itself. Not really something I can explain for the reason just stated. 

Edited April 4, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Jwayne]

5 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Trust me on this...you can understand Infinity.   Only it must be AS infinity.   The finite cannot grasp the Infinite.   But the Infinite, IS itself, and thus can grasp itself. Not really something I can explain for the reason just stated. 

It's not good for anyone to "trust you". What you explained could just be parroted from something you've read or imagined. Your apparent confidence has no value for someone else, and actually could mislead them. This is the kind of pissing contest that happens everyday on this forum.

"I'm so enlightened (more than the others) but it can never be demonstrated to you."

Edited April 4, 2023 by Jwayne

[Inliytened1]

16 minutes ago, Jwayne said:

It's not good for anyone to "trust you".

You're correct.  I didn't mean it literally.   Go out and do the work yourself.  Then come back and join those who did.  You're sitting here bullshitting are you not?  How many hours of meditation have you done?  How many trips?  Have you done either?  All you need are the metaphysical videos and then spiritual practice.  You don't need this place.   This place is to push you to go back out the door from which you came.

Edited April 4, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Jwayne]

17 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

You're correct.  I didn't mean it literally.   Go out and do the work yourself.  Then come back and join those who did.  You're sitting here bullshitting are you not?  How many hours of meditation have you done?  How many trips?  Have you done either?  All you need are the metaphysical videos and then spiritual practice.  You don't need this place.   This place is to push you to go back out the door from which you came.

I prefer studying books over watching videos. What should happen is that people return from individualist spiritual practice with some kind of productive, generative contributions in some way conducive towards collective aims .

Edited April 4, 2023 by Jwayne

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Jwayne said:

That assumes not-murdering is a necessary outcome of understanding.

In that case, I would argue, your action to murder was necessarily informed by understanding. It is certainly not divorced from understanding, so to speak. Because whatever you understand is with you - inescapably - in your decision-making.

You can have very deep understanding and very deep mystical states, but later in your human existence you will encounter human challenges. If someone tries to destroy what you are constructing, you can choose to fix it by killing them. this is not necessarily wrong. If you move in high states of consciousness, you will directly understand what is right or wrong for you at a given moment, there is no universal recipe.

[Jwayne]

3 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

You can have very deep understanding and very deep mystical states, but later in your human existence you will encounter human challenges. If someone tries to destroy what you are constructing, you can choose to fix it by killing them. this is not necessarily wrong. If you move in high states of consciousness, you will directly understand what is right or wrong for you at a given moment, there is no universal recipe.

I generally agree with that. Every challenge will summon a response from understanding, both the embodied/internalized aspect and the part you must consciously work out in the moment.

Edited April 4, 2023 by Jwayne