Important! - Nobody On This Forum Is AWAKE

[OldManCorcoran]

3 hours ago, spiritual memes said:

No but someone's access to the truth is absolutely an experience. If you disagree, then why do you need a fuckton of 5-meo to realise truth? If it isn't an experience, then why do you need psychedelics? Why do you need literal chemicals floating through your brain to realise truth?

Because it kills the mind processes which typically obscure what is actual...

[spiritual memes]

2 hours ago, Thought Art said:

@spiritual memes You are wrong about psychedelics not increasing baseline state. Mushrooms for example removed any glimpse of suicidal thought from my mind for 3 months afterward and one trip was a major life improvement. This was a baseline improvement. 

If it was baseline improvement, it wouldn't go away after 3 months it would be permanent. It happened with me as well. I got crazy enlightened with psychedelics but It went away after a few months.

2 hours ago, Thought Art said:

Some of the states offered by tripping you don’t want to be in all the time. that’s why they are bottled up in substance, not constant. 

It's interesting because those states are where you have highest access to truth.

2 hours ago, Thought Art said:

Leo, in my view clearly teaches to balance manual spiritual practices and psychedelics. Don’t distort what he teaches. If you trip but don’t contemplate, and do manual spiritual practice you might as well be a retard.

He used to be like that. Now he has vastly shifted towards the psychedelic end. Pretty much none of his teachings are about meditation, yoga or shadow work and he is mostly talking about states he experiences on extremely high doses of psychedelics.

2 hours ago, Thought Art said:

You don’t understand the distinctions, nuances and paradoxes of relative and absolute truth.

Lol. As I said before, unless you are tripping balls on 5-meo or decades of meditation, neither do you. You can speak all you want but they are empty words. Pointers made by someone who doesn't actually know the direction.

[spiritual memes]

9 minutes ago, OldManCorcoran said:

Because it kills the mind processes which typically obscure what is actual...

yes. 

[Thought Art]

@spiritual memes Well, then meditation doesn’t increase baseline state either. If you stop practicing for a year then… you’ll lose your gains. 
 

You must not be watching Leo’s videos on a regular basis or in completion. Leo talks about all kinds of things. He mentions exactly what I said above a lot. Just because some episodes are focused on tripping doesn’t mean he doesn’t stress the importance of other practices. When he talks about deepest awakenings, yeah that’s psychedelics. Doesn’t mean meditation isn’t useful. 
 

and your last comment. You don’t know. These things require contemplation as well. Not just sitting or tripping. 
 

Baseline state is increased by a combination of practices, tools, and habits used on a regular basis. No single technique will increase baseline state. 

Edited March 28, 2023 by Thought Art

[Kuba Powiertowski]

Well, this hit me recently with enormous power:

"Let me fall if I must fall.

The One I become will catch me."

Ba'al Shem Tov

Still contemplating...

[spiritual memes]

13 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

@spiritual memes Well, then meditation doesn’t increase baseline state either. If you stop practicing for a year then… you’ll lose your gains. 

You can meditate every day and integrate it into your lifestyle. This can't be done with psychedelics due to tolerance and the fact that they cause your life to become dysfunctional. Also certain meditative practices like shadow work will increase your baseline state permanently. And its interesting because Leo does not teach shadow work at all. Psychedelics also result in a huge spiritual ego Leo and most of the forum being all the evidence you need.

18 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

You must not be watching Leo’s videos on a regular basis or in completion. Leo talks about all kinds of things. He mentions exactly what I said above a lot. Just because some episodes are focused on tripping doesn’t mean he doesn’t stress the importance of other practices. When he talks about deepest awakenings, yeah that’s psychedelics. Doesn’t mean meditation isn’t useful. 

He hasn't made a meditation video in years. And in case you haven't noticed, his spiritual ego has only gotten bigger. Which tends to happen when you only take psychedelics and neglect the other aspects of spirituality.

21 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

and your last comment. You don’t know. These things require contemplation as well. Not just sitting or tripping. 

And as I said multiple times, neither do you.

23 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

Baseline state is increased by a combination of practices, tools, and habits used on a regular basis. No single technique will increase baseline state. 

Yes. I never disagreed with that.

[Water by the River]

41 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

Well, then meditation doesn’t increase baseline state either. If you stop practicing for a year then… you’ll lose your gains. 

That is not my experience. At some point you take the practice off the pillow into daily life. There are techniques for doing that (for example the Mahamudra-practices described in Pointing out the Great Way, Daniel Brown). Then, it would simply be rather unpleasant to not continue doing it. And the energetic shifts towards emptiness and nonduality continue and increase.

I can imagine that falling back happens happens with something like only sitting-meditation concentration style or Koan-style (Zen, or Theravada-style). But I don't know, that is not the system I used mainly. At least according to my experience, it doesn't happen with something like the Yoga of One Taste of Mahamdura or the Yoga of Unelaboration/Skill of Recognition (Pointing out the Great Way, Brown). I don't see how that could not stick.

And I don't think Genetics is the main part. I didn't have any great genetics,  it took me around 15 years+, but only because I didn't get the efficient techniques at the beginning. If I would have been coached in the right way, it would have been a lot faster. Looking back, using the right techniques is so much key. If you don't, you can bang your head against the wall (or rather stare at it) for a looong time until something happens.

You will not get somebody who failed at most stuff at life and without discipline there. But using the right meditation-techniques and diligence, and as soon as possible roll that out in daily life, then you will be doing fine. General understanding of the technique, diligence, and finding soon a way to make it pleasant. I believe that is key, at least it was for me.

If you look for example at Pointing out the Great Way, Daniel Brown, you have around 300-400 pages on these techniques. It is a very clear defined step-path, with many sub-techniques for each stage. The Tibetans have been doing that 1000 years, and it is in my opinion its the most sophisticated system on the planet. The Zen techniques (Koan and just sitting) look rather.... well, rudimentary compared to that. At least in my perspective. And the Theravada-techniques are not at that level of sophistication. Also just my perspective.

If the meditation doesn't get pleasant after a certain time, in my opinion one is either not using the best techniques available, or is doing something wrong.

Concerning the marvelous spiritual genetics topic: Here we are, in a forum in large parts based on Self-Help and quite a part of Self-Help on male-female dynamics, and there it is forbidden to blame looks, but with meditation we blame genetics. Without really knowing and having no statistics, Just because our meditation technique feels bad or boring (maybe the wrong technique, maybe there is some better stuff available?).

I didn't have any special genetics for meditation, meditation was hard and not pleasant at the beginning, that is why I didn't do too much at the start. Then I stumbled (or rather read about all the different systems) over the right technique, and to this day I marvel on how infinitely much better that made my life.

Today, Selling water by the River, Self Help Mindset Flavor!    ( : sorry, just kidding.

But I really mean all of the above. Never limit the belief in what you can achieve. Of course, don't be unkind to yourself and overload you, but never stop believing!

Here the 2-Year-Old with nearly most of his skin burned who went flying Air Force Jets, including the fastest of them: 

How do you think that 2-year-old would have gone for meditation? Get blocked my limiting beliefs? 

Edited March 28, 2023 by Water by the River

[Ramu]

I guess I missed the punchline for this post Leo.  Pretty strange considering I always get your content.  But now I'm really stumped.  So you're saying we're not really awake and we haven't made any progress and we're no further along than we were at the beginning.   Isn't that just the inspiration I just needed.  Hey Eric, you don't know jack shit about anything...so I guess a thank you is in order?

[OldManCorcoran]

5 minutes ago, Ramu said:

I guess I missed the punchline for this post Leo.  Pretty strange considering I always get your content.  But now I'm really stumped.  So you're saying we're not really awake and we haven't made any progress and we're no further along than we were at the beginning.   Isn't that just the inspiration I just needed.  Hey Eric, you don't know jack shit about anything...so I guess a thank you is in order?

Only Leo can ever achieve anything. We are all just pathetic peasants who should beg at his feet for him to bestow us with even a miniscule of his Messianic power. How dare you think you could ever be as amazing as Leo.

[Jowblob]

Just now, OldManCorcoran said:

Only Leo can ever achieve anything. We are all just pathetic peasants who should beg at his feet for him to bestow us with even a miniscule of his Messianic power. How dare you think you could ever be as amazing as Leo.

you made Leo , lol

[Ramu]

@OldManCorcoran I know it's fucking ridiculous.   Thanks for your post!

[Ramu]

I consider myself awake and God realized.  I have a ways to go, and I'm excited about exploring consciousness more.  As far as the Alien Consciousness thing, I'll tune in again when there's more clarity.  I'm getting a little put out with this I Am The Master horseshit.

I AM YOU, Leo, so of course I'm awake.

[Breakingthewall]

2 minutes ago, Ramu said:

I consider myself awake and God realized.  I have a ways to go, and I'm excited about exploring consciousness more.  As far as the Alien Consciousness thing, I'll tune in again when there's more clarity.  I'm getting a little put out with this I Am The Master horseshit.

I AM YOU, Leo, so of course I'm awake.

3 hours ago, Moksha said:

 

Why do you care what Leo says? He is just some letters on a screen, you are the infinite depth, he is nothing. use him if he is useful as inspiration and that's it. Imo he's very inspiring

[Ramu]

@Breakingthewall so what IS his point?

[Moksha]

3 hours ago, Devin said:

Imagination and pretending are concepts of the mind, so is "the absolute pretending", everything is real.

Every word is conceptual, including imagination and pretending. They are at best pointers to reality, which is why when attempting to describe it they "turn back frightened". When I write, people usually only see the words, without looking beyond them to where they point.

[Inliytened1]

9 minutes ago, Squeekytoy said:

 

 

Anyway, I'll probably leave it at that. I don't really care that much, and I'm not looking to confront Leo or stir up shit or end up like Flyboy.

 

How could anyone ban a rubber ducky?

[Moksha]

3 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Yes, that's understanding. And can be deeper

Words again, but direct realization is beyond understanding. Your mind is incapable of making any sense of it.

When I say there are levels of enlightenment, I am referring to the brightness of the light, not to its nature. The absolute intensifies or diminishes its light, but it is always light.

Whatever is illuminated by the absolute is its creation. In the absence of the light, whether human, elephant, or alien, it is nothing. Call it maya, imagination, or the cosmos, none of it is absolutely real.

Ask whether your journey is focused on exploring the jungle of creation, or on intensifying the absolute within. The more transparent your form, the greater the light that will shine through you.

[Water by the River]

11 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

How could anyone ban a rubber ducky?

[Rinne]

@Leo Gura

does this new alien consciousness awakening negate any of your previous material?

[Thought Art]

@spiritual memes @Water by the River

In the end, every tool can be used as you wish. 

Psychedelics can be used maturely without messing someone’s life. They are a field of mastery like anything. It should be obvious not all tools or practices can be treated the same way. Every practice will come with pros and cons and it’s own unique safety precautions. 
 

My personal view is, psychedelics are powerful tools for deep awakening. Their use when done maturely over time, with proper integration periods, they can be great. But, yes risky.

I do have an understanding of the difference between absolute and relative truth though. It’s just fresh. 
 

Anyway, all for now for us on this conversation.