Important! - Nobody On This Forum Is AWAKE

[Yimpa]

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

BUT.. as long as you feel like there’s you and there’s God, you are not awake. 

Biggest trap I believed from nonduality, hands down.

Very clever way to deceive yourself from seeing YOURSELF. 

[Someone here]

3 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

Biggest trap I believed from nonduality, hands down.

Very clever way to deceive yourself from seeing YOURSELF. 

Elaborate? 

[Ramu]

LEO:  Just offer the course and end the suspense.  If it's not ready, then how about offering a glimpse of what's to come, lets say an overview that could be in episode format.  I feel like you're telling everyone that they're fucking stupid.  Not really helping at all bud.

[seriousman24]

This is the course itself you fools!!You've been deceived.
I have won this round.
He was going to to stage a suicide using elaborate gpt 4 prompts had nobody solved the riddle.
Then after other members followed suit on the pretense he would declare them fully god realized.

[funcool]

@Leo Gura Is unawareness also imagined? What about forgetfullness? What makes the need for consistency and coherency so important for general experience? When you fall asleep you generally realize you will wake up in the same body. I've never done any psychedelic's but what if you had an incoherent trip which you couldn't make sense of. Usually when you have a fever dream you become lucid during the dream and realize its inconsistency followed by your awareness of your persona in ordinary life. When you are accessing alien consciousness do you still remember leo during the trip?

[Leo Gura]

32 minutes ago, Ramu said:

LEO:  Just offer the course and end the suspense.  If it's not ready, then how about offering a glimpse of what's to come, lets say an overview that could be in episode format.  I feel like you're telling everyone that they're fucking stupid.  Not really helping at all bud.

There is no suspense. I have told you the punchline already.

The details are too complex to explain on a forum.

I am in the process of making the course, but there's still months of work left to finish.

This topic would have to be discussed on this forum regardless. It's controversial. People will have many disagreements. So here we are.

This is also part of my process of making the course. I use your questions and critiques as material to help me make the course better.

9 minutes ago, funcool said:

@Leo Gura Is unawareness also imagined? What about forgetfullness?

Basically yes.

Quote

What makes the need for consistency and coherency so important for general experience?

That's how you maintain sanity.

Quote

When you are accessing alien consciousness do you still remember leo during the trip?

I could if I wanted to, but there's usually no need.

Edited March 28, 2023 by Leo Gura

[How to be wise]

An empty mind is necessary for truth. To get to truth, just stop believing any thought. Full stop.

[universe]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

You know why? Because I was born in a shitty country that makes it impossible for me to get my hands on some 5 meo. 

That is not the reason. Stop being a victim. You can change your country, if you really want to.

You are giving away your power by making this choice to feel like a victim.

❤️

[spiritual memes]

3 hours ago, Squeekytoy said:

Truth is not a momentary experience or peak state. This is where the whole problem starts.

Unless you are directly experiencing truth this very moment, it is just a peak experience.

3 hours ago, Squeekytoy said:

Isn't this what Leo is doing? Think about it...

No, Leo is encouraging people to chase peak experiences using psychedelics. If he wanted to elevate humanity he would be teaching how to increase your baseline stage of consciousness, which is far more important for humanity since in peak experience, one can no longer function as a human. 

[spiritual memes]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Truth is not a temporary experience, Truth is experience.

And yet, the realisation of that is temporary...  If it were that easy, everyone would be enlightened.

[Devin]

 

[Gennadiy1981]

On 3/24/2023 at 4:26 AM, Leo Gura said:

Like realizing that God is Alien Intelligence.

In my humble opinion, to be awaken is the realize that you and God do everything at the same time, as you are one, as there is only oneness as nothing else exists, but this oneness. To be a week is to remove all conditions you were brought up in your family, in your religion, in your community. And as Leo said, A person individually will know when they’re awake or not. And the week in person can see through all the bullshit that the media shows us the government shows us the politics, and the school in the community shows us. You understand that you live in full bullshit, and that you are the only one who understand the true essence of reality.

[OldManCorcoran]

27 minutes ago, Devin said:

 

How excellent

[erik8lrl]

The disagreement mainly stems from different recognition of the nature of awakening. 

It is true that there is a stage of development where one can reach a permanent absolute being/understanding/consciousness of the nature of existence/infinity/God. Whether through psychedelic or traditional means. Which is what most refer to as awakening or enlightenment or God-realization. It is a realization that removes all doubts about what you are, what existence is, and why everything is the way it is. Most who reach this stage will likely be permanently changed, the truth will become an everpresent part of how they live, despite ego coming back in different degrees. (It is impossible to be absolutely egoless while you are a conscious human, no matter how awakened you are, as a conscious human you will have degrees of ego in order to exist) This stage of development is what most religious and spiritual teacher points to, despite the different methods, definition, or explanation. And because it is so profound and absolute, it can feel like the final awakening, and it makes sense, since most people's whole reasoning behind their spiritual seeking is to reach these answers. They are content with this level of understanding for it is more than enough to find meaning in their human existence. They are looking at awakening from the perspective of a human, and see awakening as solely something that serves their human existence.           

However, if you look at awakening from God's perspective. To God, awakening is not limited to anything. God can awaken to itself in infinite ways and infinite degrees. In God's perspective, all of existence is "it" awakening to itself in infinite ways and infinite degrees. 

The first stage of absolute awakening is like being handed the key to God's perspective. Some will experience it and feel satisfied with it from their human perspective and live on, and that is totally fine. While others might use the perspective to experience/explore existence from the perspective of God. Thus allowing them to experience awakening, as God, to itself, in infinite ways and degrees. And that is fine too, since awakening is love, and through the different degrees of awakening one can experience higher and higher degrees of infinite/love from their human perspective. 

The nature of awakening is love no matter how high the degree or the difference in methods. Everyone will choose through their/God's free will what degree of awakening they wish to experience.   

[Breakingthewall]

8 hours ago, Moksha said:

Do you see that absolute reality is beyond understanding and is only directly realized? What is there to understand that is not imagination?

14 hours ago, Squeekytoy said:

 

 

Are you sure about that? There is only absolute reality, the relative just seems relative. The relative is the absolute, and i think it can be understood. Obviously it's not understandable in the conceptual mind level, the thing is deep understanding, consciousness understanding itself

[Water by the River]

Selling Water by the River, todays water batch: Difference between Awakening and Enlightenment:

Enlightenment: You had to cut/transcend every subtle separate sense feelings/thought (very subtle ones, very hard to spot). Then you are fully empty, which is your True Condition. Then, all separate self arisings arise in you, and move in you, but you are not only them. They move in you like the wind. The wind is also you, but you are not only the wind. They are fully transcended.

Why is that necessary to fully understand Absolute Reality, or what You are? What you are can be fully empty. Like, nothing at all. Total Nothingness. When no arising is there, Absolute Reality/You is unaware of itself. But with the potential for sentience if something appears (for example, check Hawal and Massaro books). You are still there when all arisings disappear (Nirvikalpha, Deep Sleep, your face before your parents were born).

And if you want to understand what You are while forms still arising (like, in normal life), there can not be a subtle separate self/anything cutting the one infinite Unity of the Real You/Reality into a felt subject (Awareness) watching Infinity, even if it feels nondual or infinite. It has to become perceptions perceiving themself, no separate self anywhere to be found. You can not have separate Awareness separated from the field. The infinite field watches itself, literally does. And your body-mind moves in the Totality that you are. The thoughts and feelings of the former separate you are moving in in the True You like the wind. The bliss/love you generate in that state without needing anything external gives you autonomy from chasing externally generated bliss via experiences. It gives you total absolute freedom and love (Bassui below: You will be entirely free)

If you understand that for your perspective, you understand that this holds for the structure of all perspectives/beings, for the whole Absolute Reality. Why? Because all perspectives are only form arising in the Absolute, any boundary from one perspective/being to another is either forgetting or form arising in Awareness, seeing itself.

The advantage if do that sobre: You need a high developed state of nonduality/nonlocality/centerlessness/mere appearance of the visual bubble. You get that via meditation done correctly. Which doesn't need to be unpleasant or hard (although it normally takes quite a while), at least if done correctly, see for example Pointing out the Great Way, Daniel Brown. If you feel centered in your head, and the outside world appears as solid, you can not understand the Nature of Reality, impossible. So this state is necessary for Enlightenment. But not sufficient. From that stage (Yoga of One Taste) for example, you can continue to dissolve the last remnants of the separate self (for example, Nonmeditation Yoga).

And then you can have Insight into what you are. You will not miss that, its definitive. Also, and most important, you got a built in safety check/quality control: You will not cross over to full Enlightenment without fully transcending any and all separate self arising coming up (and the visual field being Nonduality, centerless and infinite). You can't fool yourself here. And you will understand when you are there. Why it is absolute.

 

Awakening: The energetic state of Nonduality/Unity/Infinity with some remnants of separate self still not fully transcended, you can also get by Psychedelics. Which of course is useful in order to have an idea of the goal, a feedback loop to build this nonduality-state via meditation, on and off the pillow.

But here, you get the nonduality/mere appearance with subtle remnants of the separate self still intact. You don't have the build in quality/safety mechanism of classic Full Enlightenment. So it is very easy to confuse these experiences for the final Realization of what you are. Everyone having experienced it claims this on the difference between Awakening and Enlightenment, see for example Frank Yang/Ralston/Wilber/Jac O'Keffee/Steven Wolinsky/... (anticipating certain feedback: "they are not awake, but enlightened". Well, with the definitions above I could agree). Enlightenment is in a different ballpark. And you can't imagine it without it fully happening.

So it is not some mild form of "God-Realization", or Nothing. It is something of a different category. It is, to quote Ralston, fully understanding what You are and what Reality is. Without any separate self filters, however subtle, still active.

So what happens if you value Psychedelic Awakenings or Understandings higher than fully being and realizing what you are? You guessed it: Reality doesn't let you off the hook, you still have psychological suffering. The separate self arisings cut you off from the full flow of love of your True Being for itself. So you need experiences to get this love flowing. For example the love you feel when understanding-experiences of the exquisite beauty of the design of Reality/Dimensions happen.

Is anything with exploring Alien-Godminds wrong? For sure not, this understanding is probably among the most beautiful experiences you can have. I just feel it becomes problematic if you value getting the love the unenlightened separate self needs from these experiences, and valueing these understandings of Alien-Godminds higher than classic Enlighenment and fully understanding your True Nature, and resting in it. 

Why not pursue and value BOTH endevours on an at least equal basis? Not downplaying Enlightenment as somehow not on the same level or lower than any other insight into the appearance or form side of Reality (which is infinite). 

If what is stated above is correct, with one path one is lead to salvation (Enlightenment), and with the other path (Understanding/Awakenings), well.... best regards from Maya, but you get a medal from her with distinction for playing her game on the highest level possible.

For the readers: You will probably not achieve higher level of bliss and love than your teacher using his teachings. And how these levels will develop: Well, we are in the prime seats here to see how it will continue.

I don' think I have a high chance of convincing Leo. So that means that the job of convincing to develop via suffering (or hopefully only not being as happy and loving than one could be) stays where it always has been, and ever will be: Maya, CEO of Samsara.

All the best, enjoy the ride and the show, and Namaste!

 

Selling Bullshit  Water by the River.

PS: There is already water by the River, so I am too lazy to carry Bulls**t there.  ( :

 

Bassui:  

“What is it that hears?” Only when you have completely exhausted the questioning will the question burst; now you will feel like someone who has come back from the dead. This is true realization. You will see the Buddhas of all the universes face-to-face and the Dharma Ancestors past and present.

...

If you push forward with your last ounce of strength at the very point where the path of your thinking has been blocked, and then, completely stymied, leap with hands high in the air into the tremendous abyss of fire confronting you—into the ever-burning flame of your own primordial nature—all ego-consciousness, all delusive feelings and thoughts and perceptions will perish with your ego-root and the true source of your Self-nature will appear. You will feel resurrected, all sickness having completely vanished, and will experience genuine peace and joy. You will be entirely free. For the first time you will realize that walking on water is like walking on ground and walking on ground like walking on water; that all day long there is speaking, yet no word is ever spoken; that throughout the day there is walking, yet no step is ever taken; that while the clouds are rising over the southern mountains their rain is falling over the northern range; that when the lecture gong is struck in China the lecture begins in Korea; that sitting alone in a ten-foot-square room you meet all the Buddhas of the ten quarters; that without seeing a word you read the more than seven thousand volumes of the sutras; that though you acquire all the merits and virtues of good actions, yet in fact there are none.

 

Edited March 28, 2023 by Water by the River

[Breakingthewall]

7 hours ago, Ramu said:

LEO:  Just offer the course and end the suspense.  If it's not ready, then how about offering a glimpse of what's to come, lets say an overview that could be in episode format.  I feel like you're telling everyone that they're fucking stupid.  Not really helping at all bud.

Let's see the course: Monday 30 mg 5 meo malt, Tuesday, rest and contemplation. Wednesday ,LSD, 250 ug , in the dark. Etc etc. Are you going to do it?

[Brivido]

I am going to leave some deep thought questions and considerations about the topic of Alien Consciousness and this thread, @Leo Gura feel free to answer or use the following as material for your future course.

1. If there is only Consciousness, why call it "Alien"? The concept of "Alien" is based on the difference between self and other, but as you very well know all is Self.
2. You have to explain in detail what you mean by "Awakening" because your definition is constantly changing and is confusing people. If you take "Awakening" to mean dissolution into formless consciousness, you aren't Awake either, because you are here reading this post. Give us a clear and concise definition of what you mean by the term "Awakening".
3. Your bar for "Awakening" is getting insanely high. In my vocabulary, awakening means the direct and constant realization that I Am the medium which creates any possible kind of reality: Consciousness. Everything is Me, everything is myself, everything is my Mind.      
4. When you say "Nobody on this forum is awake", you are undervaluing your own work and your own impact. There are people on this forum who have been as far as you went and I am one of them (leaving outside this Alien Consciousness business).
5. It seems that you are falling in the trap of believing that there is someone to save from unconsciousness. Each one of us is choosing to dream the dream of being a human, and again, you know that. There is no-one to save and, in the absolute sense, your work is completely useless because you are teaching to yourself.
6. In the absolute sense, the role of "spiritual teacher" is completely useless. From my POV I am the only one that can awaken and from your POV you are the only one, why constantly affirming that "nobody is awake"? Of course nobody is awake but you from your POV, because you are everyone.  
7. You have to accept that the majority of people will never go as far as you went and that other classic teachers are offering a valuable service to "normal people". 
8. Can you clarify why one week you state that you and Peter Ralston are the only ones awake and the next week you change your mind? What makes you consider Ralston awake, if you consider him so? Have you been talking with him?

[IronFoot]

@Leo Gura

obviously the person who commented that they would wait for the course has the right idea. And I am getting more curious the more I read this thread. Asking questions is probably fruitless, but here it goes anyways lol.

regarding god realization and enlightenment, I can definitely conceptualize this thanks to following your work. My major issue has been with the “being” part of the equation. I have definitely been in a god realized state (even after the trip wore off) but it always slips from my grasp. 

 

1.  You have stated that alien consciousness is of far greater magnitude than any other type of awakening. How do you go about ranking your awakenings? Whenever I have ranked my own it usually just came down to which experience gave more clarity. It’s been less of it being different and more of it being a new perspective that gives a clearer picture, but is still ultimately rooted in the same thing.

2.  Why would you use the term alien? This makes it sound as if this is something outside of yourself and outside of a typical god realization. When I read your initial post, I assumed that you were trying to point to non duality in the most brazen and obnoxious way possible that would inevitably create chaos in the responses. Maybe your play was that out of the chaos someone would figure it out. You keep speaking in a fashion that I have interpreted as God is speaking through you and that what you are saying is the word of god.  My interpretation (which is probably wrong) has been the that I am all there is. I am Leo Gura and every other person on this forum and in the universe.  So in that sense I could speak on behalf god since I am god. The difference between you and me being that you are in a permanent state of being awake while I am still dreaming most of the time.

I should reiterate again, that I can conceptualize this, but have not actualized this.

 

Are you suggesting there is an “other” that we can tap into? Or is separation still an illusion?

 

Also I am not trying to reduce reality down to anything and really just trying to wrap my head around what could be beyond infinity as that seems to be what you are alluding to.

 

3. Finally, with this new level you have discovered, what actually changes besides just gaining more clarity/understanding?When I was first exposed to non duality I thought that was the end all. Then I discovered solipsism. The outcome of both is basically the same in my opinion. Either I am one with everything or I am all there is. Both are essentially saying the same thing. I think solipsism leaves less room for the ego to hijack it/ romanticize it, but it really is just word play.

 

I hope I don’t come across as arrogant  or a fucking moron in this post ( I am a bit sleepy so cut me some slack lol).

 

I really appreciate all the work you have done though. I’ve been watching your stuff since like 2014. You have had a greater impact than anyone else has ever had on my life.

 

 

[Water by the River]

23 minutes ago, Brivido said:

It seems that you are falling in the trap of believing that there is someone to save from unconsciousness. Each one of us is choosing to dream the dream of being a human, and again, you know that. There is no-one to save and, in the absolute sense, your work is completely useless because you are teaching to yourself.

Selling water by the river. Since "you" already are IT.