Important! - Nobody On This Forum Is AWAKE

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

But yes, we are all limited by our genetics in the end. How could it be otherwise?

14 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

 

17 hours ago, Water by the River said:

?

So at the end you got some moments of omniscience and a lot of frustration for be trapped in the human device.   anyway, if it's possible go further it's normal to go. But for me it's enough with solving the human maze and be limitless all time. Why do you need to know the structure of reality? Helps you to be infinite? I think you are confusing quantity with quality . But maybe you are right, too soon to know  

And maybe one day one of those aliens comes and tell you: do you think you are awake? Poor ant...you ve not a clue of what awakening is  

Anyway, alien or not, a course about how to optimize the use of psychedelics from a professional as you is very interesting 

Edited March 27, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Kuba Powiertowski]

On 25.03.2023 at 3:17 PM, Gesundheit2 said:

 

@Inliytened1 I was not asking you to explain awakening. I was asking you to explain the word absolute, preferably in the context of awakening. Like, for example what is the difference between relative awakening and absolute awakening?

 

Sat (Being) Chit ( Consciousness) Ananda (Bliss)

But You can always invent a wheel once again…

All this thread is good example of bipolar lunacy.

More Being less thinking I advise

[max duewel]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Alien Consciousness has touches of Omniscience to it. The more conscious you become the closer to Omniscience you get.

A human can seem omniscient from the POV of an ant.

Psychedelics can take you very far if you use them properly. Which is what my new course will teach people how to do.

But yes, we are all limited by our genetics in the end. How could it be otherwise?

Still, you have not nearly tapped the full potential of what your genetics allow.

What I can't reach my head around, is this..

Even If I can reach this Alien understanding, how can this beat the understanding of the Godhead?

Shouldn't god be the ultimate understanding and even the highest Alien consciousness only a small fractal of gods understanding?

Edited March 27, 2023 by max duewel
easier to read like this

[Yimpa]

7 hours ago, Moksha said:

 

?The spiritual journey is about letting go of judgment and the need for control. Internal boundaries dissolve as the mind unifies. When you realize space by distancing your attention from your thoughts, the sharks swimming in the murky depths of the unconscious spontaneously rise to the surface and release their pain. It is serene harmonization, and it continues spreading outward to dissolve apparent boundaries separating you from others. It is only words, until it actually happens and is directly realized. You see your absolute nature, which is the seamless essence of everything (i.e., love).

 It’s beyond logic as well… amazing. 

I can’t believe it, but at the same time it all makes sense. 

I will continue to explore Truth. 

[Yimpa]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Psychedelics can take you very far if you use them properly. Which is what my new course will teach people how to do.

When I have deep trips on psychedelics, I’m not able to maintain my focus and awareness very well. It’s almost like I arrive at a destination I want to explore, but I immediately hit a brick wall and snap out of that experience.

Is this an issue you’ll address in your course?

[Water by the River]

  9 hours ago, Water by the River said:

Whatever the meaning or Referent of this concept/word is , it would just be more form. Even if its a very subtle appearance or formless understanding. Just more arisings.

8 hours ago, aurum said:

You don’t know that.

You don’t know what Leo means by Alien Consciousness. And neither do I. But I don’t think Leo is making such an obvious error.

Alternatively, if it just “more form”, then it’s clear he thinks it’s a highly relevant form. And maybe there’s good reason for that.

My point is we just don’t know. Let’s have a little bit of faith in Leo. He obviously feels it is important.

 

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

When consciousness reaches levels beyond human -- way beyond nonduality, Buddhism, and even most psychedelic trips -- it transforms into alien forms of consciousness and intelligence

@Aurum: Luckily, we did get a timely answer: Alien FORMS of consciousness and intelligence.  I fully believe Leo that he experienced this, and its fascinating stuff. For sure, there are those perspectives/intelligences creating and keeping the game running. That is the stuff that humanity will probably focus on the explore in the next 1000 years and beyond, if not a mishappen asteroid or so comes along.... So Leo is a pioneer of the highest degree, for sure. And maybe after 1000 years we will play the UFOs on some other planets or dimensions, or create our own little dimensions or whatever, and appear as these Alien intelligences. Who knows?

But lets say reality is really infinite (as pretty much everbody and most spiritual texts agree on): Its infinite turtles all the way up. N+1. You never reach the top. If you understood that Alien Universe-Creator/Manager, you can go understood his "boss". And the next. And so on, forever. So form doesn't stop. And the content of every perspective, of the alien forms of consciousness and intelligence, are  by definition form. It is all arisings. So it is an infinity "upwards", see Leos Video on Infinity Part 2, Cantors Set Theory. It will never stop. No reason not to explore, if you have fun doing it. I am curious for which shows are ongoing, for sure.The one Absolute Subject watching all of that, Reality itself or You, doesnt have form. It would limit Reality. This realization is the core of classic Enlightenment.

And knowing the Absolute of Reality is knowing the infinite Abyss of Consciousness: It is not form. "It" is the only "thing" (I know...)  that is not form, neither subtle or not. It is the Real You (not the separate self arisings in you). It is Reality itself. If no arisings happen in your perspective it is Nirvikalpa or Deep Sleep, if arisings happen in you perspective, it's perceptions perceiving themselves. With or without a separate self-arising going on. That is by the way the structure of all perspectives/beings being imagined by Ultimate Reality.

Any Identity/I-feeling-arising is form. Any understanding is an appearance. Why? Its not permanent. It comes and goes. Its not you. It arises in you.

And my only humble suggestion is: Before you go running exploring that which you can never finish in this lifetime: Why not look deeply into the abyss of your own true being (which contains all form, but never is form, getting to the point where there is so much no center that all perceptions see themselves), learn to keep that ongoing in daily life, and be happy and in bliss, and go exploring these Alien-Minds then? Why go exploring on an endless journey with so much urgency while still not being happy, because a separate self still creates dis-satisfaction (which by definition it does to keep the game/illusion going).

How would you call a game that keeps you dissatiesfied searching for the highest form of Alien Intelligence, when there are an infinite number of them out there, chasing your own tail? What is it that keeps the whole illusion running? The separate self at its core has to generate dis-satisfation, to keep some activity going on. Not that it winds down and one actually looks into the absolutely formless abyss of ones own Being and Reality, sees the separate self building blocks arising as those elements that cause the dis-satisfaction in the first place, and lives happily ever after. Would be bad for the show if everybody did that. Luckily, that risk will not arise soon. Especially since we see here a new and creative form of that activity of chasing your own tail, so to say the highest evolved version of that until now, in some sense really the cutting edge of that aspect of humanity.

And please nobody say that I am saying it is not worth exploring the Alien Superminds. That is part of the fascinating show. My only suggestion would be to do it in a way that makes you honestly happy and loving. And for that I would recommend you buying a bottle of water at the river saying: "Look deeply into your being, and check what reality is, what you are, if that makes you happy and loving or not, and check if its maybe already water. From the river".

As always: Review the perspectives and draw your own conclusion on what resonates within you. And think about if you want to be happy/loving while resting in your True Nature and then go exploring the Alien-Whatevers of the Multiverse, or go on that trip with a separate self very well intact, causing regularly returning dissatisfaction & unloving, and having from time to time some great highs in merging and understanding those Alien-Godminds.

 

[Breakingthewall]

7 hours ago, Moksha said:

The spiritual journey is about letting go of judgment and the need for control. Internal boundaries dissolve as the mind unifies. When you realize space by distancing your attention from your thoughts, the sharks swimming in the murky depths of the unconscious spontaneously rise to the surface and release their pain. It is serene harmonization, and it continues spreading outward to dissolve apparent boundaries separating you from others. It is only words, until it actually happens and is directly realized. You see your absolute nature, which is the seamless essence of everything (i.e., love).

It's the healing of the trauma and the acceptation of the reality. This in my opinion is the beginning of the journey, not the end. up to this point you were swimming in the waters of self-created suffering. well, you have transcended suffering, your subconscious has no mysteries for you, there is no more fear, you are no longer a beggar of human love. but you are still limited. This is where psychedelics come in, not out of necessity but out of passion.

[withinUverse]

On 3/24/2023 at 2:11 AM, Leo Gura said:

Anyone here who claims to be AWAKE, or to understand what AWAKE is, or what GOD is, or what CONSCIOUSNESS is -- is fooling themselves.

The only one here who understands these things is ME.

This does not mean, however, that I cannot sometimes be full of shit myself. I can. I am not perfect. But not on this issue.

Enlightenment is not AWAKE.
Buddhism is not AWAKE.
Nonduality is not AWAKE.
No amount of meditation is AWAKE.

There will be a lot of bitching and moaning over this issue. But I simply told you the truth.

You've been warned. This is way more tricky than you ever imagined. My function here is to guide people through every trick. But the problem is, they don't want to be guided because they already think they've figured it out. Don't be that guy.

I found this thread last night and I allowed myself some time to digest.  I guess I want to purge out some of my thoughts.  I know I've learned a lot from Leo's guidance, I'm sure there's more I can learn.    I'm here to understand myself more, so what am I understanding from this post?  

First, I noticed I wanted to say I'm Awake.  But then I started to break down this transformation I experienced that I called Awake.  Why do I call it Awake?  Well... it did seem like when I opened my eyes it was the first time I experienced whatever I was looking at.  It was as if I didn't even know what the concept of seeing was.  I didn't know what my body was and I didn't know what my surroundings were.  It was the first real experience of now with no memory of the past and no concept of future.  I was being.  I was a blank slate at the slightest moment before I opened my view point.  The view started to slowly move around but it wasn't like I could put words on the blank slate.  There were no words.  What are words?  I truly did not know I didn't know because I didn't know I could think.  I didn't even know what I was.  I believe it's when I moved my view to the other person with me did my memory sweep right back in and gave me context and history.  To me using the word Awake seemed to be a perfect description.  But is it really?  Maybe it's the most common word used now adays, so it was just convenient for me to use that word.  Maybe it's easier to be lazy and maybe it's the only way others will understand.  But who else would understand?  Well maybe no one.

Awake... Enlightenment... when I hear these words, to me they seem like they're definite or even a final state.  Maybe that's why I assumed it was a completion of some kind.  But do I feel completed.... do I feel like I'm finished?  Absolutely not!  So maybe these words aren't as accurate to what my experience was.  And really were those moments the only experience that transformed me?  No, there has been several and most I haven't even been able to explain.  Others I'm completely fine if I don't understand at all.  But how many times have I recontextualized my experiences?  Countless... and do I all of a sudden feel like I don't need to continue recontextualizing?  lol...no!  Have I held myself back in some of those experiences?  Yes, I found moments where I wasn't ready to face them yet.  But do I know I'll be ready with patience and more experience?  Yes.  Do I know there's so much more for me to learn?  Infinitely more!  Does that make me feel daunted?  Absolutely not, I'm enlivened!  I need to find a better word for what I went through.  I don't think I should use a noun.  Descriptive words might be helpful.  It seems like it was an action as well.  I think I'll need more time, energy, and effort to come up with something other than Awake.  

Thank you @Leo Gura for your help in guiding me through this work in progress  looking for more clarification for my future!

Edited March 27, 2023 by withinUverse

[Water by the River]

45 minutes ago, max duewel said:

What I can't reach my head around is this..

Even If I can reach this Alien understanding how can this beat the understanding of the Godhead?

Shouldn't god be the ultimate understanding and even the highest Alien consciousness only a small fractal of gods understanding?

Maybe you can't reach your head around this because it is a true what you write?

Godhead could be defined as Reality itself "seen/been" from a perspective/being where no arisings/form happen (Nirvikalpa, Deep Sleep, 5 MeO,....).

Understanding the true nature of Reality when form arises as appearances in You contains a deep understanding of the nature of the Godhead also (when it is deep enough, with zero separate self identities still being believed, not believed as subject but seen arising as objects).

And the Alien Understanding is then understanding about the structure of these/certain structures arising in reality, even if its pretty subtle and pretty formless. With enough training, you can see these understandings arise and moving in the Reality that you are, being elaborated into further understandings later. Reality/Consciousness does all this understanding of the different perspectives/beings.

As always, review the perspectives and draw your own conclusions, and choose the perspective with which you resonate most deeply.

And more specific: Are you happy when you fully understand the wetness of the (infinite) ocean and understand and become the wetness of the ocean, or do you need to understand the structure of every wave of certain sub-fractal, for example  "low-pressure-vortex-area/Alien God-Mind" in an infinitely large ocean?

Edited March 27, 2023 by Water by the River

[Breakingthewall]

23 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

And more specific: Are you happy when you fully understand the wetness of the (infinite) ocean and understand and become the wetness of the ocean, or do you need to understand the structure of every wave of certain sub-fractal, for example  "low-pressure-vortex-area/Alien God-Mind" in an infinitely large ocean?

Yeah, well said. There is no higher than becoming the ocean. This does not mean that you understand all its structures, you can also dive into it and try to understand it as much as possible if you want. but AWAKENING is the first, the second is to go deep and it has no limit. you can become the alien that so smart, and that there is another alien millions of times superior, and then another billions times smarter

[The Zen Viking]

"It's tricky" - Leo Gura, 21th century spiritual teacher

[eos_nyxia]

Yea... whatever this all is, I don’t want to be a part of it moving forward. I can't do it in good faith. I am not personally convinced that this is in the collective best benefit moving forward (claiming monopolies on The Truth in a non-inclusive way, which is very much the "old way"). Nor do I find the method to be in good taste either. (Not that there isn’t a point to the message itself minus the vehicle.)

Like as circular and hopelessly self-referential I (personally) find most of these dialogues to be, I recognize that they're not really meant for me. But there are also very important reasons for the breakdown of "spiritual authority" based on words, perceived social status, and claimed authority, because the things that cannot somehow be shared directly, as in through direct experience, are arguably more of the same as what came before in human history.

For reference, I am one of those “born exceptionally gifted” human beings in a spiritual sense (and in a few other senses). Almost everything that I’ve done and experienced for most of my life has been in the complete absence of added substance. I try not to talk (or think) down toward people who used substance to get where they have, but to be fair, I don’t think what is talked about here on this forum AT ALL accounts for what is possible with human hardware minus substance. It's not like those people are there by accident either.

Like... I don't think it's well understood what "the gifted" are capable of, but then probably you're not part of the actual conversation anyway.

IMO you should be able to know pre-emptively if you are at a "true peak" before or during having a “peak” experience. To not be able to do so betrays a certain lack of both knowing and experience. Even if it's on some purely instinctive level, you need to know enough to know that you are where you are feasibly and what it definitely means, and to not be changing the goal posts repeatedly in a “this is the new peak experience!” sort of way.

You should also be able to properly account for all direct human experiences with some measurable, clear, meaningful means, including for all the people who just never talk, and never would talk. Otherwise... what is the point of being at “”the peak”” and then telling people about it?

This doesn't even start to get into the issue of extra-sensory powers and what not, which at their root, are not intrinsically split off from perception itself.

Edited March 27, 2023 by eos_nyxia
TBH this too is all political/ social maneuvering by default, one way or another.

[StarStruck]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

If you include Buddhism in there, it would be perfect.

 

 

Edited March 27, 2023 by StarStruck

[Blackhawk]

6 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

Alright this is fine

Trying to convince yourself? ?

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

But yes, we are all limited by our genetics in the end. How could it be otherwise?

Still, you have not nearly tapped the full potential of what your genetics allow.

Isn't it a contradiction when you say that everything is imagination and materialism is wrong, and then you say that we are limited by genes (which is a part of materialism) and can't do anything about it?

[Ry4n]

A single atom of a molecule of a cell of my ball hair has 1 trillion times more awakeness than any single thing in the entirety of all existence forever and ever till the end of time beyond all time the end. 

[Ry4n]

On 24/3/2023 at 7:23 PM, Leo Gura said:

I am talking about accessing Alien Consciousness. No one here understands what that is.

No Leo I stuck Datura up my butt for breakfast I know exactly what alien consciousness is in fact I am the alien that has been haunting your dreams with this alien consciousness that you speak of checkmate atheists. 

[Water by the River]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Ego loss and presence is not what this work is truly about. That is a minor matter in the end. There are much larger issues at stake.

You cannot comprehend GOD merely by losing your ego or being very present. This is the core mistake of Buddhism. They confuse such things with CONSCIOUSNESS. But those are very narrow aspects of CONSCIOUSNESS.

I agree. Ego-Loss and Presence is not final Enlightenment. Ego-Loss and Presence would be Roger Thisdells stage 3 and 4, a more or less transparent Witness, and that can include Nonduality and Unity-states. Not his stage 5, True No-Self, or final Enlightenment. His videos are on Youtube, see my previous posts.

At the end, when only the individuality-feeling of the Transparent Witness remains, and even that is seen as moving in the True You or Reality/Infinite Consciousness itself, among with all other mere appearances of the Visual Field, then there is insight into the Ultimate Nature of Reality and your True Self. Not before. That is called Great Enlightenment in Zen, or Basis Enlightenment in Mahamudra. All small Enlightenments before are called Kenshos or smaller Satoris (Nonduality, Unity, certain Ego-losses). But the final and total drop of the separate self arisings is the Great Enlightenment, the insight into the nature of Existence/Reality and the real You.

Version 1, Peter Ralston:

Peter Ralston: "So you know enlightenment is you yourself becoming conscious of what's true, directly conscious of what's true, like what you are or what existence is, no more than that".

Version 2, The Supreme Source, God-Realization Dzogchen-style:

 

 

My intuition is with the importance you lay on God-Realization: Never stop short - on which I fully agree. Thats the worst mistake one can do - stop short in understand what You and Ultimate Reality really are. I really agree on that.

Apparently, understanding that everything is just appearance arising in the True You, Reality itself, and what that True You and Ultimate Reality are, is paramount.

But why aim for understanding all of the endless/infinite perspectives (Alien Minds, whatever...) that work together to give rise to all these appearances, when by definition its infinite and endless (n+1) and never can be fully understood, and call that God-Realization, and give it a higher meaning than the Full Classic Enlightenment? Isn't Ultimate Reality the final Godhead? Infinite other dimensions run and understood by other Alien Godminds? Aren't these other realms not just... more appearances arising in Ultimate Reality?

Why place more importance on these insights, which by definition can never be complete, than on the understanding of the "wetness" of each wave of appearances in the ocean of Ultimate Reality? Which by the way, is the definition of final Enlightenment (or Great Enlightenment in Zen, see Kapleau three pillars. Not the preliminary ones, Kenshos and smaller Satoris, which show Nonduality and various other facets). But the real thing, like Ralston said, what Reality is and what You really are.

Why not get the wetness and bliss of the ocean in your everyday-life, and then go exploring the Alien Godminds? Or do you aim for that with exploring the Alien Godminds?

As always: Review the perspectives, and if one doesn't like the kind of water that is being sold here at the river, look deeply into yourself if you are not already the river... ( : 

He who knows the well doesn't drink out of the jar. And doesn't angry on other jars.

PS: And besides, in exploring these Alien-Godminds, I think you are doing an awesome pioneering job, stuff for the history books in the future. What would really delight me is if you find within yourself a place living from which brings you a radiating bliss and love in your everyday life 24/7, and freedom from psychological suffering. All the best and bon voyage!

 

[Leo Gura]

33 minutes ago, Squeekytoy said:

@Water by the River @Leo Gura You guys are completely misreading what he said about presence. He wasn't talking about a state or practice or insight, but about the bottom line of existence.

This is a common mistake. The mistake is trying to reduce Consciousness to some bottom line. This leads to Buddhism. You will not become very conscious that way. Consciousness is about grasping higher, not reducing down to a bottom line. You cannot comprehend GOD through bottom-lining. That's what all these enlightened people get wrong. They treat GOD as though it were some kind of substance or atom that you just need to discover and then you are done.

Edited March 27, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Water by the River]

23 minutes ago, Squeekytoy said:

@Water by the River @Leo Gura You guys are completely misreading what he said about presence. He wasn't talking about a state or practice or insight, but about the bottom line of existence.

Presence, and Ego, even Ego-loss, and consciousness (being aware of some arisings) gets switched off every night in deep sleep, at least for most. So these things can potentially switched off, without the Real You and the bottom line of existence getting switched off.

Can the Real You be something that is not constant? That gets switched on and off?

Is that the bottom line of existence?

And if he was talking about the Real Bottom Line of Existence, or the One Hand clapping: Why is that not enough? Was it really the One Hand clapping? For all others hearing the One Hand Clapping, it was enough.

As always: Just selling Water by the River.

 

 

 

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Squeekytoy said:

How can there be structures to the absolute... All of that is part of creation at large, all of which is a mirage.

You would call your life a mirage ? It's a complex structure that have a reason. The reality is complex, and can be understood. Simplify is...simple . The reality isn't simple at all, despite we would like