Important! - Nobody On This Forum Is AWAKE

[Thought Art]

14 minutes ago, Moksha said:

One point nobody can deny is that Leo's post has driven a plethora of perspectives. I love the diversity of our community and feel that every perspective has some wisdom within it. I appreciate everyone that has posted here, regardless of what has been said.

My realizations:

1) Claiming to be more enlightened than someone else is egoic and therefore false.

2) Taking offense at someone claiming to be more enlightened than you is also egoic and therefore false.

3) The more enlightened you are, the more boundaries dissolve. You realize that people claiming to be more enlightened, or taking offense at not being considered enlightened, are also you.

4) Along the path of enlightenment, you see that the entire path is also part of the dream.

5) Despite being part of the dream, the spiritual path increases the lucidity and quality of the dream. The more clearly you see, the more brilliant the dream experiences become.

6) The moment you identify with or become addicted to the experiences themselves, including spiritual experiences, you have lost your lucidity and are again trapped within the dream.

7) The pinnacle purpose of life is learning to remain lucid, free of entanglement with desires and fears, and therefore able to fully enjoy the experiences of life without being suffocated by them.

My view on your Realizations

1. This is false. Saying you are more awake than others does not need to be egoic, but can simply be true. You may reach a point where you realize that you are the most conscious being in existence. When, and if you realize this, then if you say it's the case then it would be true. Others though, cannot verify this for you. Which is challenging. 

2. Yes, taking offence at someone saying they are more awake than you, is ego. Even here I foresee come caviats

3. Sure. I actually think the more awake you become, maybe the more boundaries dissolve, but at the the say time more high quality distinctions are made. I am not convinced it's purely that awakening or enlightenment is to dissolve boundaries. I think that is more buddhist framing. Thinking, knowing making high quality distinctions are also a part of becoming more awake. At least, in some aspects of the awakening process, as a human being. To learn to think, be wise, intelligent, use wise discernment etc are to me, signs of a deeply awakened and wise person. At the highest levels of my own awakenings, and I am not saying I am awake... It's ineffable how One, it all is. But, each awakening I've had has lead me to making higher and higher quality distinctions within the oneness as a human. 

4. Sure

5. True

6. Maybe. This is assuming that all experiences are equal, symmetrical in value to understanding God and awakening. I would say that is false. There are higher states of knowing that simply aren't accessible to most people, and buddhists especially so... They just like to imagine that all states are an equal playing field. This is false. 

7. Buddhist Framing. This framing is also in some Hindu and other types of spiritual framing. I am not sure there is a purpose of life. But, I do myself create the meaning that the purpose of my life personally, is to live masterfully and be deeply loving and contribute to the world. But, this is a meaning I have created. For me, life is a love simulator. I am choosing to create for myself the most powerful framing I can. Which, does include aspects of this buddhist framing but, transcends it.

Edited March 26, 2023 by Thought Art

[Aaron p]

On 24/03/2023 at 4:11 PM, Leo Gura said:

I get no joy out of saying these things to you. I wish I didn't have to say them. I have spent months not saying it, hoping I don't have to say it. I spent a lot of time hesitating before saying it because I know how it sounds. But in the end I gotta focus on what is true vs how things sound.

If I don't say these things people will get deceived by nonduality, Buddhism, enlightenment, self-inquiry, meditation, etc.

@Leo Gura thank you for being selfless enough to post this bro, you know it will make to look proud, and yet you care more about guiding us correctly than your own appearance. 

This is a very rare trait, thank you

Edited March 26, 2023 by Aaron p

[Moksha]

@Thought Art What is the point of claiming to be more enlightened than someone else, other than to serve the ego? It only increases the illusion of superiority and separation. It encourages guru-worship and idolism and is a distraction.

Instead, why not point toward the inner journey, which is the only true path to realization? Everyone is their own sadguru.

[Thought Art]

@Moksha Maybe it is ego, selfishness and trying to make you look and feel as if you are better than others.

Or, if you are a teacher students who knows what awakening is, you may need to tell them. "Hey, look. I can see where you guys are at and you are not awake. I know, because I actually became awake and I can simply see you are not awake." In that case, a teacher must tell his students that he is awake, and stress this point. Leo isn't framing his teachings like other teachers and is trying to cut through the bullshit Buddhist/ New age ideas of awakening. 

I personally cannot confirm his awakening, at this moment. But, It is clear to me he is more awake and a better thinker than many other spiritual teachers. Especially the people on this forum. No fucking way they are awake. 

To proclaim one's truth, is not necessarily an act of Ego. Also, this Ego nonsense is problematic and is often used as a tool to gaslight people from sharing their insights, developing themselves, or saying what they know to be true. It needs to be said with care, when we accuse someone of "acting from ego".

Edited March 26, 2023 by Thought Art

[Breakingthewall]

45 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The only creature on this entire planet who is AWAKE. Is me.

No one else.

I shit you not.

Be very careful. You don't understand how deep this thing goes. It goes completely beyond any human comprehension.

Enlightenment is imaginary.

Every "enlightened" human on this planet is fooling themselves very deeply.

GOD is completely beyond all that.

This is not Leo speaking to you.

This is GOD, speaking through the Leo avatar.

I can only get through to you as much as you will allow me.

So be very careful about how you handle your mind.

3 hours ago, Water by the River said:

?

I do not deny your statement, I would only ask for more development. If you have discovered that, share it.

[Jowblob]

9 minutes ago, Moksha said:

@Thought Art What is the point of claiming to be more enlightened than someone else, other than to serve the ego? It only increases the illusion of superiority and separation. It encourages guru-worship and idolism and is a distraction.

Instead, why not point toward the inner journey, which is the only true path to realization? Everyone is their own sadguru.

When you reach a certain level of awakening it only becomes about "you" and there is no ego, if you don't know simple things like this then why even bother being here...

[Yimpa]

I would like to add that, to be fair, Leo did at one point teach about enlightenment, meditation, and nonduality. Given this, of course his students would be confused and misled.

On the other hand, we can’t allow that to be an excuse, as Leo had to also make those mistakes himself. 

It takes guts to not only point out that the prior teachings are null, but to also take this ship in a different direction by not continuing to entertain the old teachings.

Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong about my observation. 

 

Edited March 26, 2023 by Yimpa

[Devin]

38 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Everything.

AWAKE is Goodness itself.

 

[CARDOZZO]

It’s actually a good thing to tell your followers that they aren’t awake, even if Leo is really the one AWAKE or not.

It has an attitude of getting us furious and going for the truth for oneself.

Thanks for that @Leo Gura

Lava syndrome is a harsh thing and when we have some awakenings, we have this memory of post-enlightenment effects.

Maybe the underlining message here is not that Leo is bragging about, he’s just shaking your “enlightened ego know it all PHD sage attitude” for the sake of yourself going to the truth.

I know it hurts your spiritual ego when you’re not the most AWAKE in the room.

Edited March 26, 2023 by CARDOZZO

[CARDOZZO]

I think that it’s one of the most dangerous things about spirituality and enlightenment.

We start reading Ralston, Wilber, McKenna, Schmachtenberger.

Then we have some enlightenment experiences and read more +100 books.

The trap here is a rationalization and getting a PHD in spirituality and enlightenment.

What’s your unique way of being a sage?

We fall into the trap of thinking that we are so advanced because we found spirituality and enlightenment and now we are the ones who’s living the “right way”.

I was doing that, putting myself on a pedestal because of the knowledge and all the great teachings.

This is crazy. You’re here to connect more with all stages of consciousness and to self-actualize step by step.

[Yimpa]

30 minutes ago, CARDOZZO said:

Lava syndrome is a harsh thing and when we have some awakenings, we have this memory of post-enlightenment effects.

Lava syndrome?

[CARDOZZO]

@Yimpa Sorry for not explaining what is that.

 

[Thought Art]

1 hour ago, Jowblob said:

When you reach a certain level of awakening it only becomes about "you" and there is no ego, if you don't know simple things like this then why even bother being here...

@Jowblob To learn. 

[Thought Art]

I have to admit something, even though I respect Leo very deeply, and I say this as in humour... 

When I check to see if Leo is active on the forum I think "Is grumpy on?" and it's funny to me.

I know, he may not be grumpy but sometimes I think he might be... just a little.  

[StarStruck]

Can we go back to this? Alien consciousness ruined everything. 

Edited March 26, 2023 by StarStruck

[CARDOZZO]

@StarStruck I was powerfully awake before Alien Consciousness ;/ 

Drinking Starbucks while basking on non-dual states.

But shit happens.

Here we go…

[zurew]

24 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

Can we go back to this? Alien consciousness ruined everything. 

Change "Godz & shiii" to "Aliens & shiii" and you are good. Or please make a meme about people arguing who is more conscious.

[OldManCorcoran]

25 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

Fucking lol. Some of the avatars genuinely look like that.

[OldManCorcoran]

58 minutes ago, CARDOZZO said:

@Yimpa Sorry for not explaining what is that.

 

 

Good video.

[Water by the River]

1 hour ago, axiom said:

@Water by the River Nice, although the suggestion that there is something that can be done or learned still seems to be there.

There is noone already, so there is nothing that can be done. There are only appearances arising which may or may not involve what seems to be an individual on some kind of path.

From the other side of the gate, it is said that to see apparent individuals believing that they exist, believing in their own agency... believing they have achieved enlightenment or indeed anything at all - is the sweetest joke going.

@axiom Fully agree on all points. I should have added some concluding remark from the Absolute side of the street, not everything from the Relative side of the street. 

>There is noone already, so there is nothing that can be done. There are only appearances arising which may or may not involve what seems to be an individual on some kind of path.

Totally agree, but for sake of teaching-efficiacy, the Mahamdura-system throws the stick with which one pokes and blazes the fire only into the fire when the fire is sufficiently burning.

In the Mahamudra-System (for example Pointing out the Great Way, Brown), there is only effort or artifical activity (or a person) involved up until and including the stage 3 of One Taste (One Taste = Nondual). One learns to cut all thought- and emotion-arisings fast enough (Stage 1& 2). When one is proficient enough in that, the visual field starts getting nondual (Stage 3), the separation perceived before drops away, and the visual field gets an appearance-only quality, empty, hologram-style.

Then, at stage 4 (Nonmeditation Yoga), this effort or artifical activity (or believing in a person or agent doing these things) gets dismantled, because cutting off the Illusion-thought-arisings has become fast enough and automatic. Together with that, the concept of a doer/person/agent gets pointed out as another concept, and the meditation does itself. Here, the mindstream aligns for the first time with the real state of things, that an understanding can happen there really is no person, just a bundle of I-thoughts/I-feelings arising. And of course, there was no person/individual in the past, only an apparant Gestalt that looked like that, and which one used to overlay ones true being (Infinite Conciousness or Reality itself) with, there isnt one now, and there never can or will be, only as an illusion or overlay on the real nature of things. Ones True Being is able to generate this illusion (magnificienlty), but is not dependend on it. The show can happen without it. But reality can generate this illusion.

Basically then one goes full Tony Parsons (there is no person, nothing needs to be done), but only at stage 4 Nonmeditation Yoga and not before. If you do it before, certain qualities are not generated that one needs to conform to the enlightened mind (nonduality, mere-appearance/imagined hologram-like quality of the visual field, infinitesness of the visual field, space not as independend self-existing "thing" but sth. imagined in consciousness which consciousness doesnt need to imagine, time and memory happening in it now, that one cant get out of it because there is no outside, and some other stuff). 

 

And when all of that is in place, Basis-Enlightenment or Crossing Over can happen, which Brown describes (among other things): 

"

Seemingly individual consciousness (yid), the point of observation throughout the entire path of meditation, is now found to be a mere concept (btagspa), which drops away. 
…
The seeming reality of individual consciousness along with its functions and activities gives way, leaving only an infinite ocean of awareness-space

"

The description of enlightenment as a dropping away of any kind of separate-identity/person/individual arising is universal in all enlightenment descriptions. Don't worry, by definition, the real you can't go away - ever. Only an illusion is seen through and understood. And the real you can generate the separate-self Illusion-show, so nothing really is lost. Whats more fundamental is still there. So It sounds more negative than it is.

Leaving only an infinite ocean of awareness-space: And if you have become so impersonal or universal consciousness (nondual) that you can have that state of huge nonduality/mere appearance of the visual field/infiniteness sobre, well then you have deconstructed your separate self enough. This is the Gate-Keeper of the Gateless Gate. This deconstruction is better said a high-speed-search-task-and-cutting-off of separate self illusion-arisings (I-feelings, I-thoughts, Trekchö-Style), and that is what boosts the nonduality and mere appearance aspect of the visual field, which is exactly what you can also boost with psychedelics, but with much more of the separate-self illusions still staying intact.... Frank Yang called that once the God-Mind-state.

 

 

>From the other side of the gate, it is said that to see apparent individuals believing that they exist, believing in their own agency... believing they have achieved enlightenment or indeed anything at all - is the sweetest joke going.

Fully agree. And if it can happen natty in Nonduality-States, it can even more easily happen with doing only/mainly Psychedelics, because among other things, they exactly boost that Nonduality/mere apperance/infinite state. And if the separate self arisings are not fully seen through, you can get quite a show. And by the way, as Ken Wilber said, people doing both meditation and psychedelics, get the most out of it, so I am not against Psychedelics at all.

Somebody made a very nice youtube-Channel on looking deep into the Abyss or Nothingness that precedes Nonduality: Prior to Non-Duality

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9vlZGtpdFIts8GOG5vu27g

You can have full blow nonduality WITH an enlightened ego/person with an identity still going on, believing to be enlightened. Believing to be Awareness, Presence, God, whatever not. Stage 3 in Mahamudra. Quite a show...

Beautiful video on that by Jac O'Keffee:

 

and now, walking from the Relative Side of the Street a bit more towards its Absolute Side:

In actuality, there is nobody selling water by the river, and nobody is buying it... 

And the short form, of all written above is:

The old pond, A frog jumps in: Plop! 

Enjoy the ride!