Important! - Nobody On This Forum Is AWAKE

[CARDOZZO]

I don't know who is more awake than the other.

But what I do know is that i'm biased toward Spiral Dynamics, Ken Wilber, Peter Ralston and Jed Mckenna.

Edited March 26, 2023 by CARDOZZO

[Water by the River]

17 minutes ago, Understander said:

 

Why is that?

Peter Ralston: "So you know enlightenment is you yourself becoming conscious of what's true, directly conscious of what's true, like what you are or what existence is, no more than that".

What you are. What existence is.

Not what the true you can do or manifest, or how you manage to do that. That is infinite.

As always: Review the evidence and perspectives, look deeply into your own being (with whatever method you want), hear the sound of the one hand clapping, and draw your own conclusions. 

[Breakingthewall]

2 minutes ago, Squeekytoy said:

More revealing than that, imo, is that he needs other people on board. Not everyone, and perhaps not even many. But nobody? That seems to be the thing he fears the most. Which is really just the fear of having to acknowledge that you could be wrong about the thing you're most sure of and invested in. Hence the need for external support.

Which is a sure sign of being not awake.

The thing is extremely difficult to understand,  few months ago he said that he had discovered the alien awakening, and he said the following statements: the God Realizations I had were wrong, because we humans are only shown that since we couldn't bear it anymore (!) 2/ From now on only I'm going to teach the alien awakening. 3/ I see colored sentient aliens doing somersaults and riding in a helicopter, I've never been so happy. 4/ I think I've taken too much psychedelics and every time I close my eyes a portal to another dimension opens... so how do you explain this? I really want Leo to have discovered something new, a revolution! but other times I think... crazy and that's it. but the guy seems grounded and wise.... sometimes. hard to understand!

[Water by the River]

9 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

everyone here seems to have the number one goal of validating themselves as sage

The late Daniel P. Brown on how to tell the depth of realization: At the end of the day, only the conduct with which one lives ones life. I like that perspective.

Of course, the things being discussed here are the most important, and serious things there are. But at the same time, all you can do, in the best case, is: Selling water by the River... Every sentient being already has at its core its True Nature.

So why not mix some benevolent lightness into all of it? Some humour?

[MisterNobody]

@Breakingthewall I know who I AM. I know what THIS IS. I don't know any details in between. I don't know how. I don't know WHY. I just know what IT is and I know I will never know for sure anything in between. I don't care whether a dmt entity or Leo or Jesus himself tells me, I won't know for sure and frankly I don't even care. There's no higher awakening because the answers to who I AM and what IT IS will never change. The highest awakening already took place. You will know it's the ultimate - by its nature. I don't care whether I am in a simulation, or I am controlled by aliens, or I am in an alien simulation, or a simulation in a simulation etc, it doesn't change the highest awakening concept of who I am and what it is

[Gesundheit2]

@Leo Gura I finally understand your pain and struggle against this stupidity lol.

Edited March 26, 2023 by Gesundheit2

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, MisterNobody said:

@Breakingthewall I know who I AM. I know what THIS IS. I don't know any details in between. I don't know how. I don't know WHY. I just know what IT is and I know I will never know for sure anything in between. I don't care whether a dmt entity or Leo or Jesus himself tells me, I won't know for sure and frankly I don't even care. There's no higher awakening because the answers to who I AM and what IT IS will never change. The highest awakening already took place. You will know it's the ultimate - by its nature. I don't care whether I am in a simulation, or I am controlled by aliens, or I am in an alien simulation, or a simulation in a simulation etc, it doesn't change the highest awakening concept of who I am and what it is

Well...realizing that you are reality, the infinity that is, is not so difficult. deconstruction and psychedelics. But why do you think you can't understand anything in between? realizing infinity is the beginning of spirituality, not the end!

 

[Breakingthewall]

15 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

So why not mix some benevolent lightness into all of it? Some humour?

Yeah, all us seem pathetic ?

[Vibes]

@Squeekytoy Is this your first account?

[How to be wise]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It's wrong. That's the point.

You used your mind to come to that conclusion. But the mind is the creator of illusion and falsehood. It is what has created everything we call “reality” out of thin air. Nothingness is the true nature of reality. I hesitate to say that “I am nothingness” since “I” itself is a mind creation, a part of the illusion.

[OldManCorcoran]

Can people stop trashing everyone's "shit genetics" and bragging about how great their genes are. Eventually someone unpleasant will sign up and see it and the results won't be very nice.

Edited March 26, 2023 by OldManCorcoran

[OldManCorcoran]

2 hours ago, Understander said:

Why is that?

He means because it is realized there is nothing but existence. And not even existence because existence is a conceptual term which exists as an opposite category to a conceptual "non existence". Which is why people tend to view life as existence and death as non existence, which they think is an infinite nothingness they will go into. Because it is all this idea of categorically different states of being which are then conceptualized.

All categories are thought perceptions and thought perceptions are appearances of reality and not default to reality. Sort of like they float on top of reality. In that way no thought or idea can ever actually be reality because it is an appearance of it. Reality precedes it.

With absolute total loss of categorical thoughts, what is left is not any different but is no longer something or nothing or existent or non existent, for the sole reason that all of those things are conceptualized categories. And categories are thought appearances taking place within a reality which in absence of your mind is uncategorized. Without any category at all, there is nothing else to which anything could belong or be.

[Water by the River]

16 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Well...realizing that you are reality, the infinity that is, is not so difficult. deconstruction and psychedelics

Thats true. Although it can take quite a while without psychedelics.

That stage was variously called the One Taste (Yoga of One Taste), Nonduality, Big-Self, Infinity, Mere Appearance, Unity, God-Self, Big Mind, ....

But who or what is aware of that? At that stage, there is still some nebulous murky identity arising, watching or being aware of this Nondual Big Self. Even in this Nonduality/Unity, there are the last remnants of the separate self (very subtle, hard to spot, takes some training) still arising. 

Roger Thisdell has some nice youtube-videos on that: Not Self - A Stage Theory of Enlightenment (4/5)

In Roger Thisdells System, it is his stage 4, which is beyond his stage 3 Big Mind, which is already Nondual (One Taste/Yoga of One Taste, Nonduality, Big-Self, Infinity, Mere Appearance, Unity, God-Self, Big Mind) with a already much reduced separate self. Stage 3 can have full Nonduality/Unity, with the separate self much more intact than the pretty empty Not-Self of stage 4 (which has just Individuality or a murky Subject-Object left). It is Ken Wilber Empty Witness, Daniel Brown "Individuality", Jac O'Keeffe "Identity", Greg Goode transparent witness vs. opaque witness, Nisargadattas and Stephen Wolinskis Brahman vs. Parabrahman). One can find this stage in every system: Infinite Nonduality/Unity with the remnants of a separate self, some kind of identity or indviduality/separateness.

And the last stage in his system, stage 5, Enlightenment: True No Self and No Centre - A Stage Theory of Enlightenment (5/5)

And then perceiving this boundless infinite field of mere appearance of your Awareness Bubble/reality/infinity, and then dissolving the last arising remnants of any remaining subject arisings perceiving this nondual infinity. These can be very subtle, "no-self"-arisings perceiving infinity, but still some subjectivity/individuality sensation/arisings remaining. But these arisings of any form of subject/individuality can still be seen as objects hovering in the infinite field/Suchness that you are. Don't worry, your True Self will still be there afterwards if these separate-self remnants dissolve. Then one can understand why it is so often said there is nothing beyond this stage. Because it is you, it is Existence itself, see the Ralston Video.

To learn these last tricks of the separate self, you need enough time in these states, and the right techniques, (for a suggestion see below, no artifical activity), and then the One Hand Claps. 

How to do that? I like the Nonmeditation-Yoga in Daniels Browns "Pointing out the Great Way". Learn to automize the meditation (on the pillow and in daily life) of cutting off these separate self arisings, so that no more of what he calls "artifical activity" is necessary, because any effort at that stage done by a doer/separate self arising prevents the realization. It has to become fully automized.

 

Definition of concepts Awakening, Enlightenment and No-Self: 

I believe we got a lot of different meanings of what we mean by No-Self, and Awakening and Enlightenment. 

Enlightenment: If Enlightenment is knowing what you are and what existence is, being able to stay in that knowledge in everday life: That has an endpoint: You know what you are and what existence is. And that brings permanent happiness and bliss. Of course you can suffer when you have bodily pain, but psychological suffering is gone. Resting in your True Nature generates bliss by itself.

And that is the same as True No-Self, which is the same as True Self, because it is Reality and the core or Buddha-Nature of every being. But here, words loose their meaning, because reality has no opposite.

No-Self: The real No-Self is not just giving up the Personality/Ego and going to the Witness (opaque or transparent, which can even be Nondual Kosmic Consciousness/Nature Mysticism style) with something still watching. That something can be mostly empty, just a transparent witness, but it still has the last duality of some kind of individuality. Problem is: This is something one only fully understands when these remnant-arisings of individuality are gone. 
If there is no separate self having individuality, the universe is watching itself, appearances watching themselves, thoughts are arising in immense vastness as objects, floating through you like the sound of a bird, and the feeling of being something separate is also seen as object in immense vastness. See Roger Thisdell stage 5. 

Awakening: If one defines Awakening as knowing all the manifestation mechanisms in this or any other dimension, then one perspective/being can be more awake than another. But: Infinity means there are endless dimensions. 

 

And a few thoughts on Genetics and Meditation: I believe that using the right meditation techniques at the right stage are essential, more so than genetics. Good techniques change along the path, check for example Pointing Out the Great Way by Daniel Brown. Classic Self-Help-Mindset: I would never let my success and drive be limited by such a limiting belief genetics <-> meditation. Do the the best with the Karma you have. Give it a try! The biggest heros are those who go furthest with the worst genetics/Karma. How do you know if you are limited, if you dont't fully try? Maybe you are not? And of course use Psychedelics on top, why not?

If anybody is annoyed by this attempt to Sell water by the River: Please review the perspectives, do your own experiments, and review the outcome.

My suggestion would be in judging if any insight is valueable, worthwhile, and higher: Does it bring the understanding of what you are and what reality is, beyond any doubt? Does it bring permanent satisfaction and bliss?

And don't worry: Its already what you are, covered by lots of mistaken identities, and it is the only thing you can not loose. The only stuff you can loose are arising appearances, confusions/ignorance of what you think you are.

By the way, does anybody read that until the end here?

[Leo Gura]

The only creature on this entire planet who is AWAKE. Is me.

No one else.

I shit you not.

Be very careful. You don't understand how deep this thing goes. It goes completely beyond any human comprehension.

Enlightenment is imaginary.

Every "enlightened" human on this planet is fooling themselves very deeply.

GOD is completely beyond all that.

This is not Leo speaking to you.

This is GOD, speaking through the Leo avatar.

I can only get through to you as much as you will allow me.

So be very careful about how you handle your mind.

Edited March 26, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Devin]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The only creature on this entire planet who is AWAKE. Is me.

No one else.

I shit you not.

Be very careful. You don't understand how deep this thing goes. It goes completely beyond any human comprehension.

Enlightenment is imaginary.

What's so good about being awake?

[r0ckyreed]

5 minutes ago, Devin said:

What's so good about being awake?

Find out. Speculation is a fools game. Find out for yourself. How do you know anybody is awake? Don’t treat Leo like another Buddha. Think for yourself.

Edited March 26, 2023 by r0ckyreed

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Devin said:

What's so good about being awake?

Everything.

AWAKE is Goodness itself.

Edited March 26, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Vibes]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The only creature on this entire planet who is AWAKE. Is me.

No one else.

I shit you not.

Be very careful. You don't understand how deep this thing goes. It goes completely beyond any human comprehension.

Enlightenment is imaginary.

Every "enlightened" human on this planet is fooling themselves very deeply.

GOD is completely beyond all that.

This is not Leo speaking to you.

This is GOD, speaking through the Leo avatar.

I can only get through to you as much as you will allow me.

So be very careful about how you handle your mind.

@Leo Gura I believe you. 

And I feel healthy. Because you are the ultimate guidance, but I also know I need experience to validate what you say. In other words, I hold what you say as a possibility for me. All I need to do is go deeper and cultivate real desire for understanding.

Edited March 26, 2023 by Vibes

[r0ckyreed]

2 minutes ago, Vibes said:

@Leo Gura I believe you. 

And I feel healthy. Because you are the ultimate guidance, but I also know I need experience to validate what you say. In other words, I hold what you say as a possibility for me. All I need to do is go deeper and cultivate real desire for understanding.

You are the ultimate guidance.

[Moksha]

One point nobody can deny is that Leo's post has driven a plethora of perspectives. I love the diversity of our community and feel that every perspective has some wisdom within it. I appreciate everyone that has posted here, regardless of what has been said.

My realizations:

1) Claiming to be more enlightened than someone else is egoic and therefore false.

2) Taking offense at someone claiming to be more enlightened than you is also egoic and therefore false.

3) The more enlightened you are, the more boundaries dissolve. You realize that people claiming to be more enlightened, or taking offense at not being considered enlightened, are also you.

4) Along the path of enlightenment, you see that the entire path is also part of the dream.

5) Despite being part of the dream, the spiritual path increases the lucidity and quality of the dream. The more clearly you see, the more brilliant the dream experiences become.

6) The moment you identify with or become addicted to the experiences themselves, including spiritual experiences, you have lost your lucidity and are again trapped within the dream.

7) The pinnacle purpose of life is learning to remain lucid, free of entanglement with desires and fears, and therefore able to fully enjoy the experiences of life without being suffocated by them.