Solipsism debunked?

[Sincerity]

2 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Yet people have different ideas about solipsism. I just talked about your idea of solipsism, and what you're saying to me is completely consistent with that idea. I actually predicted that you would say this exact phrase. Why? Because I understand your idea of solipsism.

I don't know what You think my idea is. But it doesn't include the description of the distinction between perception and consciousness You made.

You said that Leo also conflates perception and consciousness. Well, I was suggesting maybe You're drawing a distinction where it's not there.

Most of the definitions of the verb "perceive" are something like "to notice or become aware of". Which to me equals "to be/become conscious of". I am conscious that I am God = I perceive that I am God.

I'm tired of this talk. I'll just add that I don't like the word solipsism in general. I prefer Aloneness.

Edited March 24, 2023 by Sincerity

[GLORY]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

if you kill yourself, all of us will disappear 

But Leo isnt that pure speculation? 
I mean if i blink with my eyes you seem to cease existing for a fraction of a second 
Even if i would be totally sure that the "physical world" and other consciousnesses dont exist
and be sure that my consciousness is absolute and is all that exists, 
it could theoretically be all illusion and part of the deception
What if direct experience is illusionary and not absolute and just a little part of the absolute 
I am not conscious how and why i create this dream and not conscious about me doing it willingly which means my consciousness cant be absolute

Edited March 24, 2023 by GLORY

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Haloman said:

Consciousness = reality = experience field.

The word "identity" implies that you are pointing to specific differences of this experience field. To lift an arm is to take control and make one experience from this field. And if he can control this identity's experience by lifting his arm but you can't  - to say that control doesn't  have connection to identity is just wrong.

You have invented a finite identity which seperated itself from the rest of consciousness.

Your true identity is Infinity.

You cannot use the issue of control to resolve this problem because your idea of control hinges on your identity. As your identity expands your notion of control will change. So actually you are begging the question here.

Edited March 24, 2023 by Leo Gura

[The Lucid Dreamer]

6 hours ago, davecraw said:

The one referring to itself. 

And what is that? 

[Carl-Richard]

14 hours ago, Sincerity said:

I don't know what You think my idea is. But it doesn't include the description of the distinction between perception and consciousness You made.

I accounted for that in the last paragraph. I know that most people don't make the distinction between perception and consciousness, but if you had made that distinction, I think you would see how the latter version is more consistent with your idea of solipsism than the former version.

 

14 hours ago, Sincerity said:

You said that Leo also conflates perception and consciousness. Well, I was suggesting maybe You're drawing a distinction where it's not there.

Most of the definitions of the verb "perceive" are something like "to notice or become aware of". Which to me equals "to be/become conscious of". I am conscious that I am God = I perceive that I am God.

I see. I think the problem is that I don't ground my metaphysics in dictionary definitions  Anyways, I'll give my perspective:

I'll give an example. I'll also make a new distinction: "attention" is different from both perception and consciousness. It also helps to really picture it in your mind. Let's say you're meditating with your eyes closed and you turn your attention to the feelings of your feet. The feelings of your feet is a perception. What does the feelings of your feet arise within? Consciousness. Then, let's say you turn your attention to the sound of your breath. The sound of your breath is a perception. What does the sound of your breath arise within? Consciousness.

Why is this a useful distinction? Because consciousness does not depend on any particular perception, feeling or sound. Whether you shift your attention from the feeling of your feet or to the sound of your breath, or if you remove perceptions from consciousness altogether (like in cessation), consciousness remains the same. Consciousness is the primary ground of which everything arises out from, and it's a boundless, spacious and formless whole. Every "thing", be it the feelings of your feet, or the sound of your breath, or the lights dancing behind your eyes, is a perception.

So you can have consciousness without perception, but not the other way around (because again, perception is a subset of consciousness). Consciousness includes perception, and in a way it is perception, but the distinction is still useful for understanding how you experience the world. There is of course more to perception than this, but this is the basic distinction.

Edited March 24, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, GLORY said:

But Leo isnt that pure speculation? 

When I speak about the ultimate nature of Consciousness I am speaking from Absolute Consciousness, not beliefs, not theories, not anything any human has said.

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I mean if i blink with my eyes you seem to cease existing for a fraction of a second 

Exactly. I exist in your mind. I am a fragment of your mind which you created.

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it could theoretically be all illusion and part of the deception

No it couldn't. You don't appreciate what experience is. You don't yet understand that it is Absolute Truth. You haven't awoken to what Truth means.

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What if direct experience is illusionary and not absolute

That isn't possible.

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and just a little part of the absolute 
I am not conscious how and why i create this dream and not conscious about me doing it willingly which means my consciousness cant be absolute

Right now your consciousness is far from absolute. Hence Awakening is required.

Edited March 24, 2023 by Leo Gura

[NoN-RaTiOnAL]

11 hours ago, davecraw said:

This is between me and you not some other imaginary being. Can you move my body like I can and do and if not why?

because you are the one being imagining me, im that "seperate other". 
you imagine me in such a way that im not able to move your body, this helps you experience separation, relativity, time and space. 

[GLORY]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Right now your consciousness is far from absolute. Hence Awakening is required.

But doesnt Solipsism mean that my Consciousness should be always absolute: being conscious how and why i create this dream and being conscious about me doing it willingly

How can Consciousness not be absolute in Solipsism?
If I am creating this dream right now, wouldnt I be conscious about me creating this dream right now 
Recognizing a dream isnt the same as being conscious about the creating process, so who is creating this dream when I am not