Solipsism debunked?

[spiritual memes]

Just now, davecraw said:

How is that a proof that you moved my body?

Because my actions caused your body to move... And they still are... 

[davecraw]

1 minute ago, spiritual memes said:

Because my actions caused your body to move... And they still are... 

There's a difference between influencing someone and doing what they did. If you have the same level of control over my body that I do then you should be able to make me post a particular message on this forum.

[spiritual memes]

Just now, davecraw said:

There's a difference between influencing someone and doing what they did.

And what is that difference?

[davecraw]

4 minutes ago, spiritual memes said:

And what is that difference?

You partially contributed to the creation of this post as opposed to creating it all.

Edited March 23, 2023 by davecraw

[spiritual memes]

15 minutes ago, davecraw said:

You partially contributed to the creation of this post as opposed to creating it all.

Isn't that what you are doing as well?

[Breakingthewall]

I don't understand the idea that solipsism has to be the case because nothing can exist outside of me, when I am not aware that I am creating reality in all its complexity and perfection. the same could not be aware of being a fly right now, when the reality is that I am

[davecraw]

16 minutes ago, spiritual memes said:

Isn't that what you are doing as well?

Your contribution and mine are different.

[spiritual memes]

1 minute ago, davecraw said:

Your contribution and mine are different.

yes, and?

[davecraw]

11 minutes ago, spiritual memes said:

yes, and?

So there are at least two different creators.

Edited March 23, 2023 by davecraw

[spiritual memes]

33 minutes ago, davecraw said:

So there are at least two different creators.

No, only one. how did you get to that conclusion?

[davecraw]

13 minutes ago, spiritual memes said:

No, only one. how did you get to that conclusion?

How can you be me since you aren't even creating what I'm creating? We already established your contribution/creation is different than mine.

Edited March 23, 2023 by davecraw

[spiritual memes]

2 minutes ago, davecraw said:

How can you be me since you aren't even creating what I'm creating? We already established your contribution/creation is different than mine.

Different contributions, same person

[spiritual memes]

1 hour ago, Jowblob said:

It's not interacting with itself from separate dream, it is you interacting with yourself from a consciousness level that you're operating at right now which makes it seems that there is seperation between you and the other. There is 1 consciousness level where it really starts becoming obvious that when you talk to others it's just you talking to yourself or god the father that is not incarnate in a physical body

But does the other have the same internal subjective experience as me? i.e. are others just npc's with no inner world or are they me experiencing being a different person?

[Carl-Richard]

4 hours ago, Sincerity said:

Well, I don't consider what the word "solipsism" points to an idea. It is what it is.

Yet people have different ideas about solipsism. I just talked about your idea of solipsism, and what you're saying to me is completely consistent with that idea. I actually predicted that you would say this exact phrase. Why? Because I understand your idea of solipsism.

[davecraw]

10 minutes ago, spiritual memes said:

Different contributions, same person

What do you mean by person? Why did you draw the conclusion we are the same person?

[spiritual memes]

Just now, davecraw said:

What do you mean by person? Why did you draw the conclusion we are the same person?

This entire debate is about solipsism... Why did you draw the conclusion that there are separate people?

 

[davecraw]

1 minute ago, spiritual memes said:

This entire debate is about solipsism... Why did you draw the conclusion that there are separate people?

 

Because you and I are doing different things and thus have different lives.

Edited March 23, 2023 by davecraw

[spiritual memes]

1 minute ago, davecraw said:

Because you and I are doing different things and thus have different lives.

That is a circular argument. You presuppose that there is a separate 'you' and 'I' to try to prove separation.

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, davecraw said:

I agree I have limited control over my body. But let's consider the parts I do have control over such as my hands that I'm typing this with. If you are me then you also have control over my hands so then you should be able to do what you want with my hands but can you? If not, why?

You are assuming that control has some connection to identity. It simply does not.

In your nightly dreams, you interact with characters you don't control, but they are all your own mind.

Here's a much better proof: if you kill yourself, all of us will disappear. Therefore we are you.

Edited March 23, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Haloman]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

You are assuming that control has some connection to identity. It simply does not.

In your nightly dreams, you interact with characters you don't control, but they are all your own mind.

Here's a much better proof: if you kill yourself, all of us will disappear. Therefore we are you.

Consciousness = reality = experience field.

The word "identity" implies that you are pointing to specific differences of this experience field. To lift an arm is to take control and make one experience from this field. And if he can control this identity's experience by lifting his arm but you can't  - to say that control doesn't  have connection to identity is just wrong.