Solipsism debunked?

[Inliytened1]

3 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

I'll just let you know that most people here, including Leo, use a different definition of solipsism than you're probably familiar with and that is more common in academic philosophy and just society in general.

The usual conception of solipsism is something like thinking that your personal perceptions are the only things that exist, and that therefore other people do not have their own perceptions. 

The other conception of solipsism is talking about transpersonal consciousness, and that this consciousness is the only thing that exists, and that this consciousness is what you fundamentally are (and what anyone or anything else is), and it transcends perception. By this view, there is no one else but you (the transpersonal "you") to have perceptions, because consciousness is what all perceptions arise within.

I don't like the latter conception of solipsism, because most people aren't able to distinguish between perceptions and consciousness, and it causes confusion. In fact, at least in this community, it's more normal for people to conflate the two conceptions than to present a consistent case of either of them.

then we should just direct them to the What is Perception Episode

anyway, good explanation of the differences and what we mean here.

Perception is an illusion.  There is only Being or Pure Consciousness minus the ego.

Now, the only way the ego can interpret it is that like "oh fuck, I'm totally alone and all others are me!"

That's not false, it just doesn't tell the whole story.   Because of course, as there is no other, there is also no self.  The ego doesn't wanna hear this of course    But you can still have an awakening or expanded state of consciousness where the ego is sorta still there and that's why the alone facet or awakening can be so terrifying.

Edited March 23, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Sincerity]

7 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Perception is a subset of consciousness, but consciousness is not a subset of perception.

Ideas.

[Carl-Richard]

1 minute ago, Sincerity said:

Ideas.

Solipsism is an idea. Is there no distinction between solipsism and a banana?

[Sincerity]

Just now, Carl-Richard said:

Solipsism is an idea.

It's an idea if You hold it as one.

3 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Is there no distinction between solipsism and a banana?

You're talking about imaginary stuff. And I don't even know why You're asking that.

[Carl-Richard]

Just now, Sincerity said:

It's an idea if You hold it as one.

You're talking about imaginary stuff. And I don't even know why You're asking that.

We're talking about ideas here, and making distinctions is implied.

[Sincerity]

4 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

We're talking about ideas here, and making distinctions is implied.

Well, I don't consider what the word "solipsism" points to an idea. It is what it is.

[MisterNobody]

@Jowblob you might be one of the few "people" who actually gets it.

At first I thought of course there is only ONE who created all the avatars (and their lives), but I thought the ONE lives through every one of them. Like multiple conscious experiences simultaneously who are all feeling pain for example. Then I realized there is only one conscious experience, inhabiting only one avatar. Now it is possible that there were, or there will be, or there are (simultaneously) other universes (games) where there is also only one conscious experience. But the universe I am currently in, contains only one player, one lifetime. It ends completely when death arrives. 

[The Lucid Dreamer]

13 hours ago, davecraw said:

 

I can move my body.

What is this “I” you speak of?

[LostSoul]

@MisterNobody i can tell you that i am aware right now writing these words... Dont you think so?

[spiritual memes]

1 hour ago, Jowblob said:

That's why there are no souls, i remember i was in shock/annoyed when Leo Gura said to me that there were no souls and it's some jumbo mumbo until i awoke to this myself and have seen how everything works. The so called "soul" dont exist, it only exists within your own dream, even if you would enter another dream reality where everything is more closer to god and more conscious the so called "souls" that you knew will be totally different in behavior and are not the same person. It's also not possible to just take these "characters/people" from this dream and put them in another higher consciousness dream, because a big change like that already changes the person completely. There is only 1 real soul, and that is god/unity/being that chooses the dream. Pic below for illustration 

Interesting. Do the dreams interact with each other? I.e. if i do something in 1 dream does it affect the other dreams?

Edited March 23, 2023 by spiritual memes

[Jowblob]

25 minutes ago, spiritual memes said:

Interesting. Do the dreams interact with each other? I.e. if i do something in 1 dream does it affect the other dreams?

Yes, but at that point you're operating from unity consciousness/god. God is within you, even when you're in the dream you can still access God/Unity consciousness but that requires you awakening yourself as god while being in the physical body. But most of the time the so called "ascended masters" that are in a physical body are still dreaming and are having their own dream of choice of being in contact with god.  At the end of your normal dream or death while not being an ascended master like now, you simply become more and more conscious until you are becoming omniscient at that point there is no point anymore to stay or be an "ascended master" because you're so conscious that these type of things don't matter anymore and you just simply quit the dream.

Edited March 23, 2023 by Jowblob

[spiritual memes]

34 minutes ago, Jowblob said:

Yes, but at that point you're operating from unity consciousness/god. God is within you, even when you're in the dream you can still access God/Unity consciousness but that requires you awakening yourself as god while being in the physical body. But most of the time the so called "ascended masters" that are in a physical body are still dreaming and are having their own dream of choice of being in contact with god.  At the end of your normal dream or death while not being an ascended master like now, you simply become more and more conscious until you are becoming omniscient at that point there is no point anymore to stay or be an "ascended master" because you're so conscious that these type of things don't matter anymore and you just simply quit the dream.

Ok so does this mean that this conversation we are having is God interacting with itself through separate dreams? Also is every single person a separate dream?

[davecraw]

10 hours ago, OBEler said:

In your dream you see another Person. Can you control him? No

Can he control you? No

Still the dream is solipsism. It's all you. 

 

 

In that case what was moving the dream body?

[davecraw]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Your logic is terrible.

1) If solipsism is true, there is no one else to move your body.

2) There is much about your body you cannot move. You cannot move your hair. Does that mean it isn't you? You have extremely limited control of your own body. There is more you can't control than what you can. So this proves nothing.

I agree I have limited control over my body. But let's consider the parts I do have control over such as my hands that I'm typing this with. If you are me then you also have control over my hands so then you should be able to do what you want with my hands but can you? If not, why?

[Jowblob]

9 minutes ago, spiritual memes said:

Ok so does this mean that this conversation we are having is God interacting with itself through separate dreams? Also is every single person a separate dream?

It's not interacting with itself from separate dream, it is you interacting with yourself from a consciousness level that you're operating at right now which makes it seems that there is seperation between you and the other. There is 1 consciousness level where it really starts becoming obvious that when you talk to others it's just you talking to yourself or god the father that is not incarnate in a physical body

[davecraw]

5 hours ago, spiritual memes said:

Actually I can move your body. I can push you, or lift you up. That counts as me moving your body.

What do you mean? Prove you can do that.

[davecraw]

4 hours ago, NoN-RaTiOnAL said:

solipsism can get more twisted than that. your logic is very simplistic.
you can just as well decide as the only being that you imagine someone “else” that cant move your body - thus creating the illusion of seperation for yourself. although it is just your own imagination. do you get it? 

This is between me and you not some other imaginary being. Can you move my body like I can and do and if not why?

Edited March 23, 2023 by davecraw

[spiritual memes]

1 minute ago, davecraw said:

What do you mean? Prove you can do that.

Haha you had to move your body to type that. Therefore, I moved your body.

[davecraw]

1 hour ago, The Lucid Dreamer said:

What is this “I” you speak of?

The one referring to itself. 

[davecraw]

1 minute ago, spiritual memes said:

Haha you had to move your body to type that. Therefore, I moved your body.

How is that a proof that you moved my body?