Solipsism debunked?

[davecraw]

I'm not trying to push any belief or prove anything. I'm simply trying to know the truth about my existence. I've encountered a major problem with solipsism that I want to share. 

 

So here's my logic:

I can move my body.

You can't move it. 

So that's one major difference between you and me. That means you and I are not the same being.

How then can solipsim be true? 

Edited March 23, 2023 by davecraw

[PenguinPablo]

Because that's how good your imagination is. You can imagine a robust dream that seems to hold up 99.99% of the time (until it doesn't).

[davecraw]

7 minutes ago, PenguinPablo said:

Because that's how good your imagination is. You can imagine a robust dream that seems to hold up 99.99% of the time (until it doesn't).

I don't understand what you mean. What are you claiming?

[PenguinPablo]

You can have a dream without knowing you're dreaming. You can dream of other autonomous beings. 

[davecraw]

8 minutes ago, PenguinPablo said:

You can have a dream without knowing you're dreaming. You can dream of other autonomous beings. 

Is that what you're doing right now? If so then wake yourself up and prove it to me by moving my body a certain way. And if you won't do it then why not?

 

Edited March 23, 2023 by davecraw

[PenguinPablo]

@davecraw ur not even listening...

I don't care for debates.

good night  

Edited March 23, 2023 by PenguinPablo

[davecraw]

29 minutes ago, PenguinPablo said:

@davecraw ur not even listening...

I don't care for debates.

good night  

Why do you claim I'm not listening?

[OBEler]

In your dream you see another Person. Can you control him? No

Can he control you? No

Still the dream is solipsism. It's all you. 

 

 

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, davecraw said:

So here's my logic:

I can move my body.

You can't move it. 

Your logic is terrible.

1) If solipsism is true, there is no one else to move your body.

2) There is much about your body you cannot move. You cannot move your hair. Does that mean it isn't you? You have extremely limited control of your own body. There is more you can't control than what you can. So this proves nothing.

Edited March 23, 2023 by Leo Gura

[OldManCorcoran]

No lol

[Carl-Richard]

I'll just let you know that most people here, including Leo, use a different definition of solipsism than you're probably familiar with and that is more common in academic philosophy and just society in general.

The usual conception of solipsism is something like thinking that your personal perceptions are the only things that exist, and that therefore other people do not have their own perceptions. 

The other conception of solipsism is talking about transpersonal consciousness, and that this consciousness is the only thing that exists, and that this consciousness is what you fundamentally are (and what anyone or anything else is), and it transcends perception. By this view, there is no one else but you (the transpersonal "you") to have perceptions, because consciousness is what all perceptions arise within.

I don't like the latter conception of solipsism, because most people aren't able to distinguish between perceptions and consciousness, and it causes confusion. In fact, at least in this community, it's more normal for people to conflate the two conceptions than to present a consistent case of either of them.

Edited March 23, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[OBEler]

@Carl-Richard Leo said in his solipsism video that your personal perceptions are the only things that exist, and that therefore other people do not have their own perceptions. 

Dont know if I misunderstood him but I remember he said exactly that. 

Overall I agree with you. This solipsism topic is one of the most confused and in this forum it is not well explained and leads to misunderstanding. I wish Leo could Adress once again in a video this solipsism with New language which is more clearer to understand 

Edited March 23, 2023 by OBEler

[Carl-Richard]

6 minutes ago, OBEler said:

@Carl-Richard Leo said in his solipsism video that your personal perceptions are the only things that exist, and that therefore other people do not have their own perceptions. 

Dont know if I misunderstood him but I remember he said exactly that

Then I guess Leo also conflates perception and consciousness. Perception is fundamentally form, and consciousness is fundamentally formless. There is of course more to perception than form (and more to consciousness than formlessness), but that is the first crucial distinction.

Edited March 23, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Moksha]

@Carl-Richard I agree. Calling it solipsism is misleading and confusing to most people. It encourages the idea that you (i.e., the person) are imagining everything, without directly acknowledging that you (i.e., the person having this amazing realization) are also being imagined. Ultimately, there is no POV and everyone is just as "real" or "unreal" as everyone else.

[Jowblob]

I'm gonna explain you how it works, nobody else is conscious of this.

 

You as god, already chose your dream and your character within your "own" dream. It's your own dream because you are the chooser, nobody else did. By you choosing this dream, you specifically made an illusion of yourself to be the only "god". So the dream is all about you, the others are simply being a projection of you within your own dream and a reflection what is within god/you. In your own dream there is nobody else that is more conscious then you, you will die by simply becoming more conscious and more conscious until you decide consciously or unconsciously to leave your dream. 

Edited March 23, 2023 by Jowblob

[spiritual memes]

9 hours ago, davecraw said:

I'm not trying to push any belief or prove anything. I'm simply trying to know the truth about my existence. I've encountered a major problem with solipsism that I want to share. 

 

So here's my logic:

I can move my body.

You can't move it. 

So that's one major difference between you and me. That means you and I are not the same being.

How then can solipsim be true? 

Actually I can move your body. I can push you, or lift you up. That counts as me moving your body.

[NoN-RaTiOnAL]

10 hours ago, davecraw said:

I'm not trying to push any belief or prove anything. I'm simply trying to know the truth about my existence. I've encountered a major problem with solipsism that I want to share. 

 

So here's my logic:

I can move my body.

You can't move it. 

So that's one major difference between you and me. That means you and I are not the same being.

How then can solipsim be true? 

solipsism can get more twisted than that. your logic is very simplistic.
you can just as well decide as the only being that you imagine someone “else” that cant move your body - thus creating the illusion of seperation for yourself. although it is just your own imagination. do you get it? 

[Sincerity]

2 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Then I guess Leo also conflates perception and consciousness. Perception is fundamentally form, and consciousness is fundamentally formless. There is of course more to perception than form (and more to consciousness than formlessness), but that is the first crucial distinction.

I think You're creating this distinction out of thin air.

Perception isn't "fundamentally" form and consciousness isn't "fundamentally" formless. There's no "crucial distinction". It is what it is. Appearance IS reality. Perception IS consciousness.

Leo has a video on perception. Here's the summary.

Edited March 23, 2023 by Sincerity

[Jowblob]

1 hour ago, Jowblob said:

I'm gonna explain you how it works, nobody else is conscious of this.

 

You as god, already chose your dream and your character within your "own" dream. It's your own dream because you are the chooser, nobody else did. By you choosing this dream, you specifically made an illusion of yourself to be the only "god". So the dream is all about you, the others are simply being a projection of you within your own dream and a reflection what is within god/you. In your own dream there is nobody else that is more conscious then you, you will die by simply becoming more conscious and more conscious until you decide consciously or unconsciously to leave your dream. 

That's why there are no souls, i remember i was in shock/annoyed when Leo Gura said to me that there were no souls and it's some jumbo mumbo until i awoke to this myself and have seen how everything works. The so called "soul" dont exist, it only exists within your own dream, even if you would enter another dream reality where everything is more closer to god and more conscious the so called "souls" that you knew will be totally different in behavior and are not the same person. It's also not possible to just take these "characters/people" from this dream and put them in another higher consciousness dream, because a big change like that already changes the person completely. There is only 1 real soul, and that is god/unity/being that chooses the dream. Pic below for illustration 

[Carl-Richard]

27 minutes ago, Sincerity said:

I think You're creating this distinction out of thin air.

Perception isn't "fundamentally" form and consciousness isn't "fundamentally" formless. There's no "crucial distinction". It is what it is. Appearance IS reality. Perception IS consciousness.

Leo has a video on perception. Here's the summary.

Perception is a subset of consciousness, but consciousness is not a subset of perception.