The biggest trap nonduality screwed me over with

[Moksha]

2 hours ago, axiom said:

That's the whole point. 

If the self is helped, it persists.

Not necessarily. You can take care of the self without identifying with it. Waking up isn't about dismissing life as an empty illusion, it is about living life lucidly. Honoring life is Advaita, but seems to be lost in Neo-Advaita.

[Breakingthewall]

23 hours ago, Yimpa said:

So I got into nonduality back in 2015. However, ever since I began doing therapy with my current therapist a year ago, as well as Leo calling out nonduality, I’ve been slowly chipping away beliefs and concepts I’ve gathered from it.

One of the biggest traps that still controls me to a certain degree is the idea that since there’s no doer, I have no way to change the trajectory of my life and to make my life circumstances better for myself and others.

Do any of you still believe this? It seems like this concept has been a major copout for why I shouldn’t make any effort to change.

Edit: heh, this is my 420th post on this forum. 

Any idea that you have not directly and consistently realized yourself has zero value.

 

[Yimpa]

2 hours ago, Moksha said:

Not necessarily. You can take care of the self without identifying with it.

Ah, yes. This is the a core skill I’m working on in therapy. I’m working on living my life while being mindful when intrusive thoughts and judgements arise; not getting hooked by their stories.

[Moksha]

13 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

Ah, yes. This is the a core skill I’m working on in therapy. I’m working on living my life while being mindful when intrusive thoughts and judgements arise; not getting hooked by their stories.

That is the spiritual journey in a nutshell. You reach the point where the suffering created by the mind's constant manipulations becomes so suffocating that anything is preferable to it. It takes that level of desperation to leap off the crumbling ledge of certainty, and plunge into the unknown.

When you do, your demons will test you. The mind doesn't let go easily. Liberation requires absolute courage and sincerity. When you prove true, you will discover the essence that is who you actually are and nothing will entice you from it. 

[axiom]

3 hours ago, Moksha said:

Not necessarily. You can take care of the self without identifying with it. Waking up isn't about dismissing life as an empty illusion, it is about living life lucidly. Honoring life is Advaita, but seems to be lost in Neo-Advaita.

If an apparent person believes they can do something to get somewhere, then that is persistence of the self. This dissolves in "waking up". It is not about dismissal of life as an empty illusion, but rather a recognition that whatever happens happens without a doer already. There is noone there with the agency to dismiss it.

[Leo Gura]

6 hours ago, Yimpa said:

Yes - to be fair I’ve only followed Neo-Advaita teachers.

It‘a frustrating, because whenever a student would ask the guru for help and tell them about their personal struggles, the guru immediately is like, “nah don’t focus on that, that’s coming from the mind, blah blah blah. Empty yourself from that”.

How does that help anybody?

It helps make the guru's job very easy.

These nondualist teachers are lazy. They don't want to bother doing any serious intellectual labor. So they just dismiss it as unimportant. And thus they deceive themselves and their students.

Nonduality is not God-Realization. It is a gross kinda of reductionism and anti-intellectualism.

Edited March 23, 2023 by Leo Gura

[How to be wise]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It helps make the guru's job very easy.

These nondualist teachers are lazy. They don't want to bother doing any serious intellectual labor. So they just dismiss it as unimportant. And thus they deceive themselves and their students.

Nonduality is not God-Realization. It is a gross kinda of reductionism and anti-intellectualism.

You are delving into imagination (the mind) while I’m dismissing the imagination all together.

[Moksha]

22 minutes ago, axiom said:

If an apparent person believes they can do something to get somewhere, then that is persistence of the self. This dissolves in "waking up". It is not about dismissal of life as an empty illusion, but rather a recognition that whatever happens happens without a doer already. There is noone there with the agency to dismiss it.

This isn't about an apparent person believing or dismissing anything. It is about the absolute realizing itself within the person, and still continuing to experience the dream. When it chooses to "awaken" within a character and experience the cosmos, it doesn't identify with the character but uses it as a conduit for lucidly navigating the dream. That is what I mean by honoring life.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, How to be wise said:

You are delving into imagination (the mind) while I’m dismissing the imagination all together.

Or so you imagine.

All your enlightenments are imaginary. And so is all your dismissing logic. Everything you tell yourself about your own enlightenment is a fantasy.

Edited March 24, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Alex_R]

3 hours ago, Moksha said:

That is the spiritual journey in a nutshell. You reach the point where the suffering created by the mind's constant manipulations becomes so suffocating that anything is preferable to it. It takes that level of desperation to leap off the crumbling ledge of certainty, and plunge into the unknown.

When you do, your demons will test you. The mind doesn't let go easily. Liberation requires absolute courage and sincerity. When you prove true, you will discover the essence that is who you actually are and nothing will entice you from it. 

@Yimpa

 

I highly highly recommend to both of you to read/watch The Disappearance of the Universe - by Gary Renard,  it's about a story that teaches you that you are not a Victim to the Universe, instead, you ARE THE UNIVERSE, it will literally shatter all your neurosis and suffering creating by your EGO by pointing to the real YOU.

 

 

 

[Alex_R]

On 3/22/2023 at 4:46 PM, Yimpa said:

So I got into nonduality back in 2015. However, ever since I began doing therapy with my current therapist a year ago, as well as Leo calling out nonduality, I’ve been slowly chipping away beliefs and concepts I’ve gathered from it.

One of the biggest traps that still controls me to a certain degree is the idea that since there’s no doer, I have no way to change the trajectory of my life and to make my life circumstances better for myself and others.

Do any of you still believe this? It seems like this concept has been a major copout for why I shouldn’t make any effort to change.

Edit: heh, this is my 420th post on this forum. 

Did you ever try psychedelics? it is a must if you want to understand what is going on here

[Yimpa]

5 minutes ago, Alex_R said:

Did you ever try psychedelics? it is a must if you want to understand what is going on here

Yeah, just ketamine and cannabis for now. 

[Moksha]

@Alex_R It's true that we are the universe, but we are also the void. We are within the dualities of existence and nonexistence, and our essence is beyond both.

[gettoefl]

20 hours ago, Yimpa said:

Ah, yes. This is the a core skill I’m working on in therapy. I’m working on living my life while being mindful when intrusive thoughts and judgements arise; not getting hooked by their stories.

i call this, not letting myself get in life's way.

i drop my agenda and pick up life's agenda

namely all i see right now is me, i act in its interests not mine; i maximise the happiness of all not mine

when i write on social media, it is not for my growth or benefit rather the infinite is using me as a conduit to love the whole

[Yimpa]

5 hours ago, gettoefl said:

i call this, not letting myself get in life's way.

i drop my agenda and pick up life's agenda

namely all i see right now is me, i act in its interests not mine; i maximise the happiness of all not mine

when i write on social media, it is not for my growth or benefit rather the infinite is using me as a conduit to love the whole

Nice 

[Devin]

5 hours ago, gettoefl said:

not letting myself get in life's way.

i drop my agenda and pick up life's agenda

, i act in its interests not mine; i maximise the happiness 

 love the whole

Beautiful. ?

Edited March 24, 2023 by Devin