The biggest trap nonduality screwed me over with

[Yimpa]

So I got into nonduality back in 2015. However, ever since I began doing therapy with my current therapist a year ago, as well as Leo calling out nonduality, I’ve been slowly chipping away beliefs and concepts I’ve gathered from it.

One of the biggest traps that still controls me to a certain degree is the idea that since there’s no doer, I have no way to change the trajectory of my life and to make my life circumstances better for myself and others.

Do any of you still believe this? It seems like this concept has been a major copout for why I shouldn’t make any effort to change.

Edit: heh, this is my 420th post on this forum. 

Edited March 22, 2023 by Yimpa

[Devin]

        You're applying nonduality to the materialist plane,

"since there's no doer, I have no way to change the trajectory of my life and to make my life circumstances better for myself and others."

if there is a "your life and circumstances to make better", then there is also a "doer". You've been taught only a part of non duality.

Edited March 22, 2023 by Devin

[OldManCorcoran]

I don't mind it. I don't find any of these things upsetting. I don't feel like I need to be in control. If I do or don't do something it was always going to be that way, I really don't see it as something upsetting.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Yimpa said:

One of the biggest traps that still controls me to a certain degree is the idea that since there’s no doer, I have no way to change the trajectory of my life and to make my life circumstances better for myself and others.

If you take nonduality to mean that then that is definitely a trap.

It's simply false. You can improve your life even if there is no so-called "doer". This is like another one of those conflations of relative and absolute domains.

You are also God but that doesn't mean you can grow wings and fly.

Edited March 22, 2023 by Leo Gura

[LSD-Rumi]

@Yimpa You are supposed to do serious spirituality after building your life. If you decide to do it sooner you will get into a lot traps like this one. There is a doer and the doer is you, you are the only doer there is.

 

[axiom]

@Yimpa

There is no doer, but it can certainly seem like there is. I would tell you to carry on as if you were in control, but then you'd have no choice in whether you did that either.

Life will always seem "as if" action A typically produces result B and so forth. And this can bring a sense of doership, satisfaction and progress - so there is nothing wrong (nor right) with apparently living this way, even if it is ultimately illusory. 

However, living with an innate sense of dissatisfaction which prompts ongoing desire and seeking does not seem to be the kind of freedom that purportedly comes from enlightenment.

Last I heard anyway

Edited March 22, 2023 by axiom

[Moksha]

The power of Self, when it is concentrated and directed into the physical, mental, or emotional realms, creates a force, and we call that force "will." That's what you use when you try to make things happen or not happen. You are not helpless in there; you have the power to affect things.

- Michael Singer, The Untethered Soul

[axiom]

@Moksha 

Patient: There's nothing wrong with me. Should I get a prescription?
Doctor: What for?
Patient: My doubt.
Doctor: Sure, take this empty medicine bottle. Try not to overdose - it's potent stuff.

[Moksha]

@axiom 

Doubt everything that can be known. Directly realize what cannot be known.

[vladorion]

Quote

One of the biggest traps that still controls me to a certain degree is the idea that since there’s no doer, I have no way to change the trajectory of my life and to make my life circumstances better for myself and others.

Some teachers are just bad and the way they teach confuses people.

You can take action and change your life, all of that happens without a separate doer.

You won't find that idea in Buddhism or traditional Advaita Vedanta. It's a new invention by half-baked "gurus".

Edited March 23, 2023 by vladorion

[Yimpa]

 

4 hours ago, LSD-Rumi said:

You are supposed to do serious spirituality after building your life. If you decide to do it sooner you will get into a lot traps like this one. There is a doer and the doer is you, you are the only doer there is.

It was a necessary trap to have gone through I think, based on my life circumstances. I was born into a Roman Catholic upbringing, but left religion at 14. Nonduality filled the void from 16-25.

I won’t even get into how difficult it was to leave my extended family members a few years ago (I still speak with my immediately family since they are more open-minded). 
 

Now I’ve been building my life these past few years (I’m 26 now). Ketamine and cannabis helped open up that possibility. I’ve made lots of progress with my relationships and learning to live independently; I’ve also had to face fear head on many times (I still will, of course). 

I’ve still got a looooong ways to go, but I’m in a much better place than I was before. 
 

—

Thank you all for the guidance, I’ll contemplate what is being said. I’m excited for this new chapter of my life. If you’d ask me to question nonduality just a year ago, I would have thought you were foolish. Little did I know that I’m the fool. And I pity the fool 

[axiom]

@Yimpa Nonduality may not be what you think it is, but that is ok. It sounds like traditional self-help might bring more satisfaction.

[Grateful Dead]

@Yimpa What do you do when you're hungry?

[michaelcycle00]

9 minutes ago, acidgoofy said:

@Yimpa What do you do when you're hungry?

Have a Snickers?

[MisterNobody]

it's all predetermined. there's no way you can change your "destiny". You are both the designer of this game called life and the apparent doer. There is only one WILL. 

[Yimpa]

5 hours ago, michaelcycle00 said:

Have a Snickers?

Nice try, I’m allergic to Snickers 

[Yimpa]

13 hours ago, vladorion said:

You won't find that idea in Buddhism or traditional Advaita Vedanta. It's a new invention by half-baked "gurus".

Yes - to be fair I’ve only followed Neo-Advaita teachers.

It‘a frustrating, because whenever a student would ask the guru for help and tell them about their personal struggles, the guru immediately is like, “nah don’t focus on that, that’s coming from the mind, blah blah blah. Empty yourself from that”.

How does that help anybody?

[Devin]

3 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

 

It‘a frustrating, because whenever a student would ask the guru for help and tell them about their personal struggles, the guru immediately is like, “nah don’t focus on that, that’s coming from the mind, blah blah blah. Empty yourself from that”.

How does that help anybody?

It helps pharmaceutical companies that sell anti depressants.

Edited March 23, 2023 by Devin

[axiom]

56 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

Yes - to be fair I’ve only followed Neo-Advaita teachers.

It‘a frustrating, because whenever a student would ask the guru for help and tell them about their personal struggles, the guru immediately is like, “nah don’t focus on that, that’s coming from the mind, blah blah blah. Empty yourself from that”.

How does that help anybody?

That's the whole point. 

If the self is helped, it persists.

[Carl-Richard]

These traps are very common when you're first introduced to the concepts. For example, I used "living in the now" as an excuse to avoid personal responsibilities. Of course that wasn't my only problem, but these things do happen.