My Frugal Relationship with Money

[soos_mite_ah]

I posted this in my journal but I want to open it up into a conversation so I thought posting this here would help:

 

This is something that I have been thinking more about lately. Even though I have a good job, I still panic at the thought of spending money, even if it isn't in foolish intention. The thought of paying thousands in rent freaks me out and so does the general cost of being alive lol. Maybe it's because I'm not used to paying larger bills. I have this impulse of saving up as much as I possibly can. I feel that this can cause me to cut corners down the road. I'm currently living at home with my parents and I am saving a lot of money. I originally planned to stay at home for 6 months to save up and then get my own place. But I feel a sense of resistance towards that. While I recognize that getting my own space can cause me to be more independent, figure out various ares of my life, give me a sense of privacy, and overall be healthier than my current living circumstances since my parents aren't the healthiest people to be around, there is a part of me that's like *but you can save much more money if you extend your stay for another 3-6 months.* 

This kind of thinking has landed me in a lot of trouble during the pandemic. I chose to stay at home instead of going back to school in an effort to make a more moral and financially sound decision. But because I was living in an unhealthy enviornment, I wound up spending more in medical bills due to my deteriorating mental health than if I had just paid some extra money to live away from home. However, living at home now feel considerably more different now that I'm not at home under lockdown, now that my parents have calmed down significantly when it comes to my relationship with them, and now that I have more of a social circle that I can fall back on. Sure, it's still not the best environment but it isn't nearly as bad as it used to be. And part of me thinks that I can gain more if I delay somethings in order to save up money. 

I also think a large part of the reason why I'm frugal with my money is because of the relationship I have with my parents. I am contemplating on potentially cutting them off and there is a part of me that wants to give back all of the money they have spent on me since I was 18, from my college, to basic bills, medical expenses, letting me live at home for 6 months, and letting me use their car. From my calculations, that totals up to about $150k for the last 5 years. In addition to that, I have other financial goals from having my own car (having it paid off for the most part), getting my own place and furnishing it, 6-months of expenses, and a potential down payment on a house. All of that together, minus the 6 months of expenses since I don't know the valuation of that and accounting for $100k for a down payment on a house (I know this is pretty generous but I'd rather overshoot on my financial goals), that totals up to $130k. Total for the money that I want to pay back my parents and the money for my own financial goals is $280k. 

$280k is a number that hangs over my head. I think on one hand it makes my goal feel more achievable since I can make certain calculations and it feels more tangible than feeling like I need to make a large amorphous amount of money. But, at the same time, it still does feel like a lot of money considering how much I'm making at the moment. I would probably have to save about half of my income for 10 years to pay this off. Now, I'm pretty sure that my wage isn't stagnant given how I can move up in my current job, have side hustles, have my life purpose contribute a lot of money etc. but it still kicks my frugal tendencies into high gear.  I can probably go without paying $150k to my parents and just focus on the $130k (it's not like my parents are expecting this money back, this is a standard I have for myself) and that relieves some of my stress and frugal tendencies tbh. God, I wish I came from a healthy home so I wouldn't feel like I had to do this. 

And I have thought of the ways that being stingy with my money can affect my quality and happiness in life ranging from not feeling comfortable taking financial risk, not travelling to places and enjoying / exploring life and growing myself, not relocating and living in a place that feels more fulfilling than Dallas, and most currently, not moving out of an unhealthy environment. I can see this really holding me back in my life. 

 

Thoughts?

[universe]

Stop with the victim mentality.

You have to take 100% responsibility.

 

I don't know how you made a situation in where you live rent free, get to use a car for free and have a good job as something negative.

From what I see you owe exactly 0$, outside from expenses that you want to cover because you just want to.

 

Somewhere inside you is a need to feel pressure or guilt.

It is an emotional need.

 

"I can't be happy and enjoy life because I feel guilty"

 

Work on these emotions.

And then work on your mindset surrounding

A. Allowing and seeing yourself as a happy and healthy person. Self-worth,

B. Money abundance.

 

Also move out as quickly as possible. This situation you are in is not healthy.

❤️

[Devin]

         Don't pay your parents, you don't have to ghost them, just put healthy distance between you. Live minimally, not frugally, buy what you need not what you don't, buy a cheaper house with less down.

[soos_mite_ah]

1 hour ago, universe said:

Stop with the victim mentality. Can you please elaborate on this a little more? If anything, when I was talking about this with my therapist, she thought I was taking too much responsibility in that I was guilting myself into thinking I have to pay back my parents even though my parents were the ones who insisted to pay for my college and medical bills and some things I needed in college (I had a credit card I used to buy textbooks and groceries and occationally get food with friends and buy clothes but I never abused having a credit card). 

You have to take 100% responsibility.

I will admit, I am largely putting this burden on myself because my parents aren't expecting me to pay this money back and I don't think they will ask for it back if I say I'm cutting they off (they might but I don't think they will). I do recognize that this is rather self inflicted and that it is my responsibility to take the responsibility to fix my mindset. 

I don't know how you made a situation in where you live rent free, get to use a car for free and have a good job as something negative.

From what I see you owe exactly 0$, outside from expenses that you want to cover because you just want to.

I would see this as negative because this makes me a freeloader on my parents even though they offered. At this point, they won't accept any of the money and are encouraging me to save it. And as much as I appreciate it, I feel like at this point I need to be completely on my own with no assistance whatsoever and any help that I'm getting now I am morally obligated to pay back. If I live at home for 6 months, my calculations is that I am obligated to payback a half-year of my current salary. If I had just moved out, I would have to just pay back the stuff I mentioned in the previous paragraph.  

 

Somewhere inside you is a need to feel pressure or guilt.

It is an emotional need.

I think at the root of it, I feel like I'm already a burden to my family just for existing (kids are expensive afterall) and I feel guilty because of the privilege I have of my parent's covering my necessities. While I do think that parents choose to have kids and therefore have some obligation to legally provide for the kid until they are 18, I don't think I'm entitled for them to help me after that which is why I feel obligated to pay them back. If I didn't believe this, I would add roughly $300k-500k to the amount that I'm proposing for costs incurring from birth to age 18 (which also includes the private school they sent me too which they made a decision about). 

I also feel pretty guilty about the decision to cut off my family due to them not being healthy for me because they have done so much for me and because parenthood is so difficult that they are bound to make mistakes. I haven't made that decision official yet because I'm still working through some emotions regarding this decision and a large part is because I was financially reliant on them paying for my college education and later medical bills. A huge part of me feels guilty leeching off of them while having an intention in the back of my mind that I'm going to cut them off. 

 

[Leo Gura]

Being frugal is very good. However, you have to watch out that it doesn't backfire on you. It is actually better to invest most of your mental energy figuring out how to provide more value to the world and make more money, than it worrying about pinching every penny.

Your goal should be to earn enough money to the point where you don't have to worry money ever again. But of course this doesn't mean you will become wasteful with money.

Your frugality can hold you back from making much more money. This is the problem with it.

Edited March 22, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Devin]

29 minutes ago, soos_mite_ah said:

 

          This is so ridiculous your parents or someone has done some real guilt tripping manipulation crap. YOU OWE NO ONE, you didn't make an agreement for them to raise you and then you pay them back, this is completely backwards from tradition and any sense. Parents help you get started in life, they had you and raised you for purely selfish reasons, they didn't do it for you, they did it to procreate, when they are old and can't take care of themselves help them the last part of their life, other than that FUCK THEM!

[soos_mite_ah]

10 hours ago, Devin said:

This is so ridiculous your parents or someone has done some real guilt tripping manipulation crap.

I disagree with this. While there is a lot of bs in my relationship with my parents, financial guilt tripping is not one of them. I will be honest and say it's a me thing. 

I was talking to my therapist about this and I thought that I'd share some of the insights and reflections I had. I would put this in the OP but I didn't want it to get too long. 

I am coming from an immigrant family and I think in this instance I'm taking the worst of both sides. The main con of being in an hyper individualistic society (the U.S.) is not being able to ask for help, lean on other people, and have social and monetary support. The main con of being in a hyper collectivistic society (South Asia) is caring way too much about what other people think of you, and doing things out of obligation to your community rather than doing what you actually want. I feel in this particular case, I’m in a double bind because on one hand, I’m expected to pull myself up from my bootstraps and do everything myself, but on the other hand, I’m also obligated to certain people in my life to fulfill certain roles. I feel like I put these expectations on myself because I have this need to be right and moral in both of the cultural contexts I was brought up in. 

I know that my parents who come from a collectivistic society think it's weird that parents in the US expect their kids to pay rent under their own roof and they think it's inhumane to not at least try to help the kid out with paying for college and higher education. In a lot of Asian families, it can be seen as a failure to not be able to provide for your kids in this way. I also know with my friends in the U.S., mainly those who came from lower incomes and really don't have any other option but to become independent at a young age by working multiple jobs and also pitching in while in high school, I wouldn't be surprised if they looked at me as if I'm priviledged and entitled and as if I'm lazy/ living life on easy mode / not taking responsibility. 

[soos_mite_ah]

And even though I don't have the healthiest relationship with my parents, as their child I still love them and respect the stuff they were able to do for me. They are the way they are due to situations outside of their control (i.e. generational trauma from war, genocide, famine, child marriage across generations, lack of money + lack of mental health awareness and resources etc.)  and they really did their best. I can empathize with a lot of what they have gone through and I understand why they are the way they are.

I can't help but feel that me leaving the family is the last blow in their lives. Imagine going through all of that, having to immigrate to a country that is so different from your own, leaving your friends and family in said country behind to provide a better life for your kid only to fail providing for the kid emotionally because you weren't well equiped as a parent to provide them with a healthy home due to things our of your control and have her to leave you at your old age. That's fucked up. It's a privilege that I can do this self-actualization work in the first place. 

And maybe I cannot gurantee being present until they die for my own sanity and in the future for my future family, but I feel awful for not compensating them in other ways and the other way I can currently think of is money.  

[Devin]

@soos_mite_ah Money can never pay them back. You being truly happy is the only way.

[soos_mite_ah]

On 3/21/2023 at 11:14 PM, Leo Gura said:

However, you have to watch out that it doesn't backfire on you. It is actually better to invest most of your mental energy figuring out how to provide more value to the world and make more money, than it worrying about pinching every penny.

Would you include avoiding spending money on experiences that could grow you like traveling or spending time with friends (occasionally getting dinner with friends or paying during dates) as things that could backfire? I’m not talking partying or drinking etc. when I mean social activities nor am I talking about extravagant vacations. 

[Leo Gura]

On 3/24/2023 at 8:34 PM, soos_mite_ah said:

Would you include avoiding spending money on experiences that could grow you like traveling or spending time with friends (occasionally getting dinner with friends or paying during dates) as things that could backfire?

Of course.

The goal is not to hoard money, it is to invest it wisely into yourself, to enable your highest values and growth. The purpose of saving money is so that you can use it on things that deeply matter to you.

Edited March 27, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Bobby_2021]

On 3/22/2023 at 3:08 AM, soos_mite_ah said:

can probably go without paying $150k to my parents and just focus on the $130k (it's not like my parents are expecting this money back, this is a standard I have for myself) and that relieves some of my stress and frugal tendencies tbh

Ditch this thought completely. You are being unnecessarily hard on yourself. Normal asian tendency to be honest that I can relate. ?

Having additional burdens only hampers your money making power in the future. You have to abuse whatever privileges you have at the moment, instead of putting restrictions on yourself. For me personally I have been very cognizant of my own privileges that I had and took care to not use than and follow the general route and I have found that me peers who used their advantage are far ahead of me. It was a big mistake from my part to not use whatever privileges I have. 

If you get super rich in the future, then you can happily pay your parents double that money with nothing to worry about. Asian parents never expect the money anyway. 

Now if I were you, I would develop myself and try to develop my parents as well and to fortify my mental health so as not let parents impact my mental health too much. Then I would continue working from home, and stack up money. In this sort of wretched economy it's not worth it to pay rent. You are just paying someone else just to have a space. I would rather put that money into making more money. This is afterall, a huge balancing act depending upon your priorities, needs & values at the end of the dat. Are your working in IT industry if I may ask? 

[soos_mite_ah]

2 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

In this sort of wretched economy it's not worth it to pay rent. You are just paying someone else just to have a space. I would rather put that money into making more money. This is afterall, a huge balancing act depending upon your priorities, needs & values at the end of the dat. Are your working in IT industry if I may ask? 

I do think that it would be healthy for me to move out in order to gain independence and responsibility as a self-sustaining adult. Plus my home life isn't the healthiest and I don't have much freedom here lol. I'm currently living in dallas and compared to most major cities, it isn't the worst in terms of cost of living. 

I'm not working in IT but I am working in tech and it's a relatively low stress job. 

[hyruga]

Don't worry. Eventually, you will 'spend' the money. It takes enormous willpower to store lots of money.

You will buy condos, houses or you will travel to gain new experiences. Or you will invest in stocks, crypto, companies. Or you will donate to help more communities.