On killing animals for meat and other products

[An young being]

21 minutes ago, Devin said:

Are you speaking in the context of "highly conscious person"? If so, what is pain and why is it bad, secondly they feel no pain when you chop their heads off with a clever.

Pain is an extremely unpleasant feeling that causes suffering. It is bad because it leads to extreme suffering. It was created by nature knowingly or unknowingly to help animals to save their lives. There were animals that existed which are incapable of experiencing pain, but unfortunately they weren't able to survive. Yes, the current methods used to kill animals definitely cause pain.

[Devin]

6 minutes ago, An young being said:

Pain is an extremely unpleasant feeling that causes suffering. It is bad because it leads to extreme suffering. It was created by nature knowingly or unknowingly to help animals to save their lives. There were animals that existed which are incapable of experiencing pain, but unfortunately they weren't able to survive. Yes, the current methods used to kill animals definitely cause pain.

       "Pain and unpleasant" are concepts, consider a world where everyone is constantly being jabbed with pokey things or walking on broken glass or hot coals, do you think they could come to enjoy that? They/you can, these unpleasant vs pleasant ideas are just ideas, pleasant and unpleasant are just relative.

[An young being]

9 minutes ago, Devin said:

       "Pain and unpleasant" are concepts, consider a world where everyone is constantly being jabbed with pokey things or walking on broken glass or hot coals, do you think they could come to enjoy that? They/you can, these unpleasant vs pleasant ideas are just ideas, pleasant and unpleasant are just relative.

You or I can, but those poor animals can't. 

[Devin]

24 minutes ago, An young being said:

You or I can, but those poor animals can't. 

The animals don't even have your concept of pain or unpleasantness to begin with.

[Devin]

@An young being

You ever pet a cat that didn't want petted? Did you harm that cat?

[An young being]

Just now, Devin said:

The animals don't even have your concept of pain or unpleasantness to begin with.

That's a big assumption, can't even be proven with direct experience.

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, Devin said:

The animals don't even have your concept of pain or unpleasantness to begin with.

Pain and unpleasantness are NOT concepts!

A human baby has no concepts, but it clearly experiences pain and unpleasantness from birth. As do all animals.

Edited March 22, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Vasu Jaggi]

@Leo Gura

Quote

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Pain and unpleasantness are NOT concepts!

A human baby has no concepts, but it clearly experiences pain and unpleasantness from birth. As do all animals.

 

pardon me master but pain being "negative"  "evil"  "bad"  "unpleasant" IS a concept isn't it. 

In my direct experience I've conditioned my mind to enjoy the pain authentically  when i punch my thighs , what I'm enjoying is Being , Existence . every experience is God right , still we are picky about our experiences.  we want heaven not hell, we want pizza not vegetable soup. 

 

strict metaphysical context.

Edited March 22, 2023 by Vasu Jaggi

[How to be wise]

44 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Pain and unpleasantness are NOT concepts!

They are. The proof is that whenever you recognise pain, it’s in the past. You must “think” about pain before you feel it. 

I’m surprised that someone of your state of consciousness still thinks that babies experience something. Of course they don’t, only you do.

[Tanz]

@Swarnim Animals killed in the name of science is tremendous, too in regards to medicine is concerned.  In some cases life-saving for humans, in other cases, it's used to give a man a boner.  

Even if you become a vegan you can not escape this unless you decide not to take any medicine at all and completely live off the land to lower your foot print.  

[An young being]

18 minutes ago, Vasu Jaggi said:

@Leo Gura

pardon me but pain being "negative"  "evil"  "bad"  "unpleasant" IS a concept isn't it. 

In my direct experience I've conditioned my mind to enjoy the pain authentically  when i punch my thighs , what I'm enjoying is Being , Existence . every experience is God right , still we are picky about our experiences.  we want heaven not hell, we want pizza not vegetable soup. 

 

strict metaphysical context.

I too can enjoy the physical pain caused by pinching myself hard, but can you enjoy the pain when your body is operated without anaesthesia? If you can, please teach it to others, so that we can save some money on anaesthesia. Pain is unavoidable and it definitely leads to greater appreciation of the times without pain but consciously killing an animal that can't even comprehend what is pain is avoidable.

 

26 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

They are. The proof is that whenever you recognise pain, it’s in the past. You must “think” about pain before you feel it. 

I’m surprised that someone of your state of consciousness still thinks that babies experience something. Of course they don’t, only you do.

They might be concepts but in that case, you realizing that you are the only one who experiences the world is also a concept.

[Vasu Jaggi]

40 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

 

I’m surprised that someone of your state of consciousness still thinks that babies experience something. Of course they don’t, only you do.

its a sensitive topic so maybe he's holding back his deepest insights on it

Edited March 22, 2023 by Vasu Jaggi

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Vasu Jaggi said:

@Leo Gura

pardon me master but pain being "negative"  "evil"  "bad"  "unpleasant" IS a concept isn't it.

I will stab you in the skull with my dinner fork. Then let's talk.

50 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

They are. The proof is that whenever you recognise pain, it’s in the past. You must “think” about pain before you feel it. 

I’m surprised that someone of your state of consciousness still thinks that babies experience something. Of course they don’t, only you do.

See above x2.

Edited March 22, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Something Funny]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I will stab you in the skull with my dinner fork. Then let's talk.

In your strong determination sitting video you had a story about Shinzen Young doing a root canal without painkillers and being totally at ease and smiling throughout the whole process.

Or there are monks who set themselves on fire and sit still.

What about that? What does it say about pain and suffering?

 

Edited March 22, 2023 by Something Funny

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

In your strong determination sitting video you had a story about Shinzen Young doing a root canal without painkillers and being totally at ease and smiling throughout the whole process.

I was talking about Ralston.

This is not license to slit child's throat.

Quote

Or there are monks who set themselves on fire and sit still.

What about that? What does it say about pain and suffering?

That says nothing about animals and babies suffering.

Do not forget the context of this whole thread. This is not a thread about meditation.

Edited March 22, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Something Funny]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

This is not license to slit child's throat.

That says nothing about animals and babies suffering.

No, I didn't mean it that context. I don't agree with the commenters above. I am trying to be vegan myself for ethical reasons (emphasis on trying)

Just in general. Is this actually a real thing? Can you transcend your own pain and suffering this way. Is this a worthy pursuit or do you consider it a distraction from real Awakening?

 

Edited March 22, 2023 by Something Funny

[Something Funny]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I was talking about Ralston.

Sorry, I mixed them up. I am not the best with names.

[Something Funny]

@Lila9

2 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

No, I didn't mean it that context. I don't agree with the commenters above. I am trying to be vegan myself for ethical reasons (emphasis on trying)

Just in general. Is this actually a real thing? Can you transcend your own pain and suffering this way. Is this a worthy pursuit or do you consider it a distraction from real Awakening?

 

 

[Vasu Jaggi]

19 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I will stab you in the skull with my dinner fork. Then let's talk.

good counter argument master but give it to other people.

stab me while I'm asleep  and I'm pretty sure I'll die with a smile ,forgiving you and in aww of this mysterious infinite genius existence.

 

Edited March 22, 2023 by Vasu Jaggi

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

Just in general. Is this actually a real thing? Can you transcend your own pain and suffering this way

I'm sure it's possible. But not without super-human levels of hardcore training.

I don't see anyone here who's serious enough to achieve it. But maybe a handful might.

Quote

Is this a worthy pursuit or do you consider it a distraction from real Awakening?

It is not the same thing as Awakening. But it might be a worthwhile pursuit. I cannot say because I have not seriously pursued it. At least yet. Maybe in the future I will. But for now I have higher priorities.

Edited March 22, 2023 by Leo Gura