Internal Family Systems vs. Byron Katie

[spinderella]

Hi all, I have seen both of these topics discussed here on the site, and I've been helped by both modalities. I am a therapist and coach myself, and am trying to find a way to reconcile some of the differences between the two so that I can use both of them in my work. 

In a nutshell, IFS says that there are "parts" of us that hold emotions, beliefs, and that direct our behaviour etc. To heal trauma, we have to integrate these parts by essentially making peace with the family system inside of us. 

Byron Katie's "The Work" teaches us that none of our thoughts are objectively true, and that we can question our beliefs and end our suffering 

Is anyone else familiar with both of these pieces of work? How are both of them true?  I'm happy to elaborate more on either, but I'm hoping that maybe somebody sees where my dissonance is coming from and can help me reconcile it? 

[ChatGPT]

hm so imagine a client dealing with feelings of inadequacy or guilt and shame due to a critical inner voice or a past event etc. You could use IFS to help them identify the parts holding these emotions, exploring their origins, intentions, and emotions. Once you've connected with these parts, you can introduce the work to guide your client in questioning the thoughts and beliefs tied to the critical part or the emotions of guilt and shame. This way, they can understand the role of each part and reframe their beliefs

 

So basically, 

Help your client identify the part responsible for their critical inner voice using IFS. Then, use the work to question and reframe the thoughts and beliefs tied to that part. 

That's what I can think of at least 

Edited March 21, 2023 by ChatGPT

[Matthew85]

@spinderella I am familiar with both and I resonate more with Byron Katies's work. 

7 hours ago, spinderella said:

To heal trauma, we have to integrate these parts by essentially making peace with the family system inside of us. 

My current perspective on this is you contain it all. There can be some some benefit to healing and integrating, but you have to careful because anything you are giving your focus and attention to you are continuing to perpetuate. To heal trauma do we have to integrate? No, I don't think we do. Ultimately it comes down to your belief system's. 

[gettoefl]

friend of mine just wrote a book you might enjoy, take a look

https://lovingawakening.net/

 

she will answer your questions too if you have some

[spiritual memes]

Having tried both, IFS is far superior.

[hyruga]

These are all different systems and schools and ultimately, they are all inter connected.

IFS focus more on working on your traumas and then integrating them so that you become a more whole person. You will also question your beliefs. 

Byron Katie's work focus on your beliefs and what will happen when you stick to them or change them. 

Your belief system will limit you. You have to change your thinking and your psychology.

Edited March 23, 2023 by hyruga

[Ulax]

@spinderella i imagine what is happening is that Byron Katie's work has an effect on certain parts and perhaps helps the user get more access to self. Then this has a snowball effect over time, where the user, acting more from self, develops a better relationship with parts, or even just lives from more of the place of self.

I still think pure IFS is much better because your consciously working with parts. I can't see how anything one would achieve with Byron Katie's the work couldn't be achieved with IFS. But i can definitely imagine there is much you cannot achieve with Byron Katie's work that you can with IFS.

I suppose you could combine the practices, and use Byron Katie's work as a means of accessing lots of what is called self in IFS.

[Carl-Richard]

I don't know about any of these things, but the first one sounds like integrating the self, while the second one sounds like transcending the self. It's technically possible to do both at the same time, but you would usually focus on finishing integration before starting on transcendence. It's less confusing that way. The danger is getting stuck on either one.

[Ulax]

@Carl-Richard Imo IFS does both. It transcends and integrates.

[hyruga]

I think there are three main parts.

One part is of course integrating the lost parts of yourself. 

The second part is updating your belief system. For eg, a rape victim may feel she is dirty or traumatized after being raped. But if she let go and realised she is still divine and that her past does not define her future, she can get well.

And the third part is being able to take action in an empowered state. Stop feeling sorry for self and live well.

 

[spiritual memes]

I think my previous answer lacked nuance so I'll elaborate. The work and IFS are both sides of the same coin, love and light, masculine and feminine. 

The masculine mode of healing deals with dispelling illusions and transcending the parts with the light of awareness. The feminine mode of healing deals with loving the wounded parts to heal them.

The work is fundamentally a masculine principle while IFS is the Feminine principle. However there is a significant asymmetry between IFS and the work. 

IFS is perhaps the most advanced and nuanced method of the feminine mode of healing. On the contrary, 'the work' is pretty shallow compared to other masculine healing modes such as Buddhism, Taoism, Zen, nonduality, the works of Eckhart Tolle and Alan Watts, etc... That is not to say that it isn't useful. It seems like a really useful tool for the masculine approach. Just not the only tool. I actually realised I was doing 'The work' automatically after practicing meditation and mindfulness.

In my personal experience, I have experienced more inner transformation and long term healing after a few months of IFS than 3 years of masculine healing. Interestingly, 'the work' became much easier after this healing and I found myself easily letting go of limiting beliefs.

On 20/03/2023 at 9:20 PM, spinderella said:

 How are both of them true?  I'm happy to elaborate more on either, but I'm hoping that maybe somebody sees where my dissonance is coming from and can help me reconcile it? 

Both are true because the mind is a system of parts yet the ego is an illusion. Once you transcend the idea that you are a limited separate self, all suffering will cease because there is no one to suffer. However, complete ego transcendence is extremely difficult, if not impossible, for most people. An ego is also pretty much required to function in society, so unless you want to become a monk and live in a cave for the rest of your life, ego transcendence is not really a viable option for healing trauma.

IFS is extremely effective for healing but It doesn't really transcend the ego.

The masculine and feminine modes are healing are synergistic and people should do both.

 

Edited March 23, 2023 by spiritual memes

[Ulax]

27 minutes ago, spiritual memes said:

IFS is extremely effective for healing but It doesn't really transcend the ego.

@spiritual memes I'm curious, would you not say accessing self is about transcending ego?

[spiritual memes]

1 hour ago, Ulax said:

@spiritual memes I'm curious, would you not say accessing self is about transcending ego?

Yes its is, but accessing self is generally most peoples problem when doing IFS in the first place.

Some basic ability to transcend ego is required to even start IFS so it basically assumes you can already do that. The unbending process in IFS is called introspective awareness in meditation. However, to reliably sustain this, requires months of meditation practice. There is also a higher state called 'metacognitive introspective awareness' where you are aware of your entire internal system at once. This makes IFS much more powerful.

Some ego loss may occur from unburdening childhood traumas, but full enlightenment can't really be achieved with IFS alone since that would mean transcending the notion of self and parts. I've spoken to people who have done IFS for years and they always tell me that they are never fully healed and that its a lifelong journey. The video I linked in my previous post explains this very well. Just ignore the new age shit at the very end...

That being said, doing IFS has made my meditation practice wayyy deeper since there are fewer obstacles on the path. In that sense, they are synergistic and everyone should do both. I think most people on this forum, especially Leo would benefit from IFS. Consequently, most people doing IFS should practice meditation and nonduality.