Leo hypothyrodism problem?

[integral]

16 hours ago, LSD-Rumi said:

@integral no this is wrong. Thyroid hormone is given only to people who actually need it and it is monitored through the level of another related hormone called TSH. If you get too much medication, TSH will go down and your doctor will reduce the dose.

No, when a test result shows low thyroid hormone they prescribe Synthroid like candy. Synthroid is one of the most over prescribed mediations on the planet now, its in the top 10. 99% of the time the person is just experience a temporary drop in hormone or is in a temporary low state at the time of the blood test. 

The issue is your body adapts, so the next time you take a blood test you'll still be in "normal" range whether your on the medication or not, so you keep taking the medication for the rest of your life as your body keeps adapting to the mediation by lowering your natural production of thyroid hormone and as a result they keep raising the dosage. 

The next issue is your thyroid hormone is not "in a range" it is PERFECTLY produced at the level you need it, so anyone taking medication is always Off and having mental health problems if that imbalance is on the high side.

To much hormone in your system is devastating to your mental health, you'll only understand this with experience. 

 

Edited March 22, 2023 by integral

[integral]

17 hours ago, Michael569 said:

maybe but the alternative is (for most people) unmanaged TSH levels and as a consequence of that risk of hyperlipidaemia. People with hypothyroidism (unmanaged) have an increased risk of stroke, atherosclerosis and myocardial infarction so thyroid meds are the lesser evil. 

Ofcourse you still wanna tinker with your health as much as you can but this is one where, until other therapy is proven to be successful I'd err on the side of caution. 

@LSD-Rumi When thyroid hormone is low its because it NEEDS to be low, the body adapted and made the intelligent decision to lower it. To raise it forcibly with drugs disrupts that adaptation and causes other systemic issue, where the body adapts again by lowering the thyroid hormone even more. So the doctors raises it again and again, completely unaware of the systemic nature of the problem and that the issue is not there thyroid that's just a symptom. Prescribed thyroid hormone is a barbaric practice. We are talking about the majority of cases not the rare situation when the organ is damaged or hashimotos. Even then hashimotos is counter-intuitive and not understood. 

Edited March 22, 2023 by integral

[LSD-Rumi]

@integral Dude, TSH levels shows if you need T4 or not. As I explained previously, high TSH means you need medication, Low TSH means you are taking too much, Normal TSH means this is the sweet spot. Medication is essential in thyroid problems and no, we are not overdiagonsing thyroid problems, we maybe actually underdiagonosing it.

 

[integral]

18 minutes ago, LSD-Rumi said:

@integral Dude, TSH levels shows if you need T4 or not. As I explained previously, high TSH means you need medication, Low TSH means you are taking too much, Normal TSH means this is the sweet spot. Medication is essential in thyroid problems and no, we are not overdiagonsing thyroid problems, we maybe actually underdiagonosing it.

No, it doesn't. Like i said its a systemic issue not a spot problem. Blood tests do not reflect health, they do no show the bigger picture and are focusing on symptoms not the root issue the body is struggling with.

The body is not struggling with producing thyroid hormone in the majority of cases, it adapted to something and made the decision to lower thyroid hormone. The marker of low hormone on the blood test means there is a issue in the body not that the issue is the thyroid. 

What you just stated is your indoctrination. Nothing you know or where thought in school is true. 

Edited March 22, 2023 by integral

[LSD-Rumi]

8 minutes ago, integral said:

No, it doesn't. Like i said its a systemic issue not a spot problem. Blood tests do not reflect health, they do no show the bigger picture and are focusing on symptoms not the root issue the body is struggling with.

The body is not struggling with producing thyroid hormone in the majority of cases, it adapted to something and made the decision to lower thyroid hormone. The marker of low hormone on the blood test means there is a issue in the body not that the issue is the thyroid. 

What you just stated is your indoctrination. Nothing you know or where thought in school is true. 

Dude, provide me with something scientific instead of this new age BS.

[integral]

15 minutes ago, LSD-Rumi said:

Dude, provide me with something scientific instead of this new age BS.

I didnt say it nicely enough. Notice that's the issue. Im not going to continue explaining this if your not going to take the time to question what you know. 

Edited March 22, 2023 by integral

[LSD-Rumi]

9 minutes ago, integral said:

I didnt say it nicely enough. Notice that's the issue. Im not going to continue explaining this if your not going to take the time to question what you know. 

Ok, np.

[Michael569]

2 hours ago, integral said:

hen thyroid hormone is low its because it NEEDS to be low, the body adapted and made the intelligent decision to lower it

I think you tagged wrong there btw 

Ok so by the same thinking - people with asthmatic emergency should be allowed to die rather than receive synthetic epinephrine because the body has made an intelligent decision to shut down its trachea 

A person with heart attacks should be left out on their own to diet rather than receive a CPR because the body in its endless wisdom is unable to pump blood into the coronary arteries. 

The person with tuberculosis should not be put on IV because the body, in its intelligence, is killing itself through flushing out its electrolytes - a scenario that results in death in most cases without medical & pharmacological intervention. 

A pre-diabetic person with zero health knowledge should just be sent home and told to go for a run every now and then rather than being put on metformin which will save his or hers limbs from amputation because the body in its intelligent wisdom is unable to manage blood glucose. 

Look, what we are saying here is that sometimes you need to manage and stabilise people with these things. Medication, when used right, may help prolong life and delay a disaster. It should not stop there, you should have the opportunity to work on your lifestyle and diet, lose weight etc but simply spitting in the face of all pharmacology saying it is barbaric - even tho we have so much evidence showing they can, in many cases, save lifes...is just silly. 

Thyroid medication do actually improve the quality of life for people who were previously undiagnosed with hashimoto's thyroiditis or Grave's disease or simple subclinical hypothyroidism and were struggling to even get out of the bed.

Don't poo poo everything that isn't "natural. Natural isn't always best. Plaque, disease, stillborn babies and mothers dying during birth are "natural" - that happened before we had medicine all the time. Now it doesn't msot of the time, and that's probably good I'd say. 

Also consider that not everybody can work on their health, Some people can't. They have no resources, no support, no education and are not even interested in doing that. Should we just let them die 20 years prematurely? 

Edited March 22, 2023 by Michael569

[docs20]

If it's really Hashimoto, and hormone replacement treatment doesn't work, in conventional medicine you can think about removing all the thyroid surgically and then go full on with the hormon replacement up to a dosage that normalizes your blood tests . It has shown an improvement and a resolution of the symptoms in patients who don't respond too well with just the hormone replacement.

In thyroids that don't have a tumour and that aren't too deformated the surgery is relatively simple if done by a surgeon that works in a center of reference for the thyroid surgery. There might be just a bit of lowering of the voice in the first couple of weeks after surgery.



It might be worth the try if really anything else didn't work and you still feel that you're life is very impacted by your problem. Sometimes people tend to delay any kind of surgery, and usually it's ok to do so because you want to first try everything non-surgical, but often people after surgery might even some something like "I should have done it sooner without postponing it that much".

 

 

Greetings,

Doctor from Rome, Italy.
 

[docs20]

20 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I take both T4 and T3, but they have no significant effect on me. I tried high doses and it doesn't help. High doses are not good for long-term health. So I take moderate doses to normalize my bloodwork.

If it's really Hashimoto, and hormone replacement treatment doesn't work, in conventional medicine you can think about removing all the thyroid surgically and then go full on with the hormon replacement up to a dosage that normalizes your blood tests . It has shown an improvement and a resolution of the symptoms in patients who don't respond too well with just the hormone replacement.

In thyroids that don't have a tumour and that aren't too deformated the surgery is relatively simple if done by a surgeon that works in a center of reference for the thyroid surgery. There might be just a bit of lowering of the voice in the first couple of weeks after surgery.



It might be worth the try if really anything else didn't work and you still feel that you're life is very impacted by your problem. Sometimes people tend to delay any kind of surgery, and usually it's ok to do so because you want to first try everything non-surgical, but often people after surgery might even some something like "I should have done it sooner without postponing it that much".

 

 

Greetings,

Doctor from Rome, Italy.

[integral]

39 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

I think you tagged wrong there btw 

Ok so by the same thinking - people with asthmatic emergency should be allowed to die rather than receive synthetic epinephrine because the body has made an intelligent decision to shut down its trachea 

A person with heart attacks should be left out on their own to diet rather than receive a CPR because the body in its endless wisdom is unable to pump blood into the coronary arteries. 

The person with tuberculosis should not be put on IV because the body, in its intelligence, is killing itself through flushing out its electrolytes - a scenario that results in death in most cases without medical & pharmacological intervention. 

A pre-diabetic person with zero health knowledge should just be sent home and told to go for a run every now and then rather than being put on metformin which will save his or hers limbs from amputation because the body in its intelligent wisdom is unable to manage blood glucose. 

Look, what we are saying here is that sometimes you need to manage and stabilise people with these things. Medication, when used right, may help prolong life and delay a disaster. It should not stop there, you should have the opportunity to work on your lifestyle and diet, lose weight etc but simply spitting in the face of all pharmacology saying it is barbaric - even tho we have so much evidence showing they can, in many cases, save lifes...is just silly. 

Thyroid medication do actually improve the quality of life for people who were previously undiagnosed with hashimoto's thyroiditis or Grave's disease or simple subclinical hypothyroidism and were struggling to even get out of the bed.

Don't poo poo everything that isn't "natural. Natural isn't always best. Plaque, disease, stillborn babies and mothers dying during birth are "natural" - that happened before we had medicine all the time. Now it doesn't msot of the time, and that's probably good I'd say. 

Also consider that not everybody can work on their health, Some people can't. They have no resources, no support, no education and are not even interested in doing that. Should we just let them die 20 years prematurely? 

lmao no didnt mean it like that, it was specific to thyroid, every situation is different, the criticism is that doctors see a number on a piece of paper and prescribe medication instead of addressing root of the problem. 

The points made are when the diagnosis was correct, when doctors work, the rest of the time it negatively impacts the persons life and they where better off never interacting with a doctor.

The resident doctors library said, when TSH levels are low they need medication to raise it. Sounds good, So the majority of cases that method is wrong and what we get is a epidemic of the hyper prescription of medication and highly profitable business practice.

The body is a complex system. When one system is struggling the rest is adapting and doctors see and chase the adaptation not the root of the problem.

39 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

A pre-diabetic person with zero health knowledge should just be sent home and told to go for a run every now and then rather than being put on metformin which will save his or hers limbs from amputation because the body in its intelligent wisdom is unable to manage blood glucose. 

Yes, of course he needs to get his shit togetter because that medication doesnt work unless they have type 1 diabetes where they absolutely need replacement of insulin. 

39 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

A person with heart attacks should be left out on their own to diet rather than receive a CPR because the body in its endless wisdom is unable to pump blood into the coronary arteries. 

The person with tuberculosis should not be put on IV because the body, in its intelligence, is killing itself through flushing out its electrolytes - a scenario that results in death in most cases without medical & pharmacological intervention. 

That is 0.1% of people entering a hospital, yes if you break a leg you need emergency treatment, emergency treatment is not at all a body adaptation, its a abrupt disturbance that needs immediate intervention.

My father was put on medication starting at the age of 15, blood pressure and cholesterol, now after his heart attack at 40 hes on 30+ medications. The heart attack package. That includes thyroid hormone of course, because one day at 61 he test low on a blood test that he takes every 6 months. So every 6 months he gets a blood test for 30 years, his thyroid happened to be low that one time and they put him on hormone replacement.

He doesn't need a single one of the medications hes taking. 

If we measure things based on quality of life, hes better off dead. One of the worse lives someone could of lived and doctors + the for-profit health cartel is to blame.  

Edited March 22, 2023 by integral

[integral]

I went to a doctor the other day for various scans, I explained I had some digestive problems.

Of course she immediately prescribed a treatment of anti-acids for 3 months to see if it helps.

1 of a 10000 maybe NEEDS ANTI-ACIDS  but because thats all they know everyone that walks into the office that has any digestive problems gets a anti-acid prescription. 

Edited March 22, 2023 by integral

[integral]

1 hour ago, Michael569 said:

Also consider that not everybody can work on their health, Some people can't. They have no resources, no support, no education and are not even interested in doing that. Should we just let them die 20 years prematurely? 

just realized the framing that is going on here, the majority of people are better off not interacting with a doctor and they will live longer!

The framing is so sneaky! 

---

A few years ago i had a problem with kidney stones, the first time it happened i was in excruciating pain for 12 hours vomiting none stop from pain. So i went to a hospital to figure out what it was, got a scan they told me i had a stone stuck and it would pass in 2 weeks or i can do surgery to get it out. So i took the surgery. All went well, then 6 months later it happened again and I didnt want to do the surgery so i started thinking about how to make it pass. I tried the natural methods and they didnt seems to work that well. Niace + magnesium + water vasodilation. Non of that worked.

So google wasn't helping me, so i thought ok what if I push really hard to pee? Within 20 minutes i pushed the stone out and was no longer in pain.

There isnt a doctor alive that will tell you to push to pee to push the stone out. 

I could of avoided surgery. 

Edited March 22, 2023 by integral

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, docs20 said:

If it's really Hashimoto, and hormone replacement treatment doesn't work, in conventional medicine you can think about removing all the thyroid surgically and then go full on with the hormon replacement up to a dosage that normalizes your blood tests . It has shown an improvement and a resolution of the symptoms in patients who don't respond too well with just the hormone replacement.

In thyroids that don't have a tumour and that aren't too deformated the surgery is relatively simple if done by a surgeon that works in a center of reference for the thyroid surgery. There might be just a bit of lowering of the voice in the first couple of weeks after surgery.

It might be worth the try if really anything else didn't work and you still feel that you're life is very impacted by your problem. Sometimes people tend to delay any kind of surgery, and usually it's ok to do so because you want to first try everything non-surgical, but often people after surgery might even some something like "I should have done it sooner without postponing it that much".

Greetings,

Doctor from Rome, Italy.

I have considered that option, but it's a big gamble. There is no guarantee it will solve anything and it might make things worse.

Edited March 22, 2023 by Leo Gura

[integral]

 

[Michael569]

@integral I'm sure we agree more than we disagree on. 

The amount of issues with the way medical model works would take a 20-volume encyclopaedia to conduct. I agree with the problems of over prescription, of pharma lobbying and of lack of holistic thinking about health - that's probably just the surface level stuff. 

The system is rigid. It takes decades for a system as rigid as medical academia to catch up and re-educate doctors. 

The way doctors operate right now is they recommend protocols that reduce your risk of serious complications. 

• they recommend levothyroxine because it reduces premature build-up of cholesterol in the arteries
• they recommend surgery for renal stones because it reduces risk of kidney damage and damage to your filtration system - sure, some people can push it out - many can't. If the stone is left in there, they may lose a kidney or end up with stage 2 or 3 kidney disease. 
• with the antacids you were given - the doctor's thinking is not "how do I prevent you from getting bloated" - his thinking is "how do I prevent you from getting oesophageal cancer" - and antacids & PPIs do that for people with GERD problems (the fact that your problems wasn't GERD - is a whole another issue...). It is not the best solution but until the problem is fixed, it helps prevent a larger disaster. Cancer is harder to treat than dysbiosis. 

I am all in for lifestyle intervention. That's what I do with clients, that's what I believe in. But sometimes people just need to go down that route and somethimes they need to be put on meds...sometimes even for life. Many do and don't get help. Many do and end up worse - all of that is true. 

But many end up better of. 

I'm sorry about your dad but being prescribed cardiovascular meds in 15 indicates some serious genetic disease I assume (familial hypercholesterolemia maybe?). If FH people don't get put on statins they can have their first heart attack in 30s. 

I'll just leave it at that. I agree with you more than I disagree 

 

Edited March 22, 2023 by Michael569

[integral]

@Michael569 That makes sense, the sentiment to intervene is reasonable. We are on the same page im just leaning harder to no-intervention. 

34 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

If FH people don't get put on statins they can have their first heart attack in 30s. 

Polycystic kidneys. He also had his kidneys removed with a transplant, but my uncle (his brother) rejected all the medication and did not have a heart attack, did not have brain damage. He also had his kidneys removed and new one transplanted. 

 I mean lol my father was put on statins and had the heart attack on his early 40s and his brother didnt. 

Im under the impression that statins cause heart attacks with long term use. One idea is that if blood pressure is high its because the body requires high blood pressure to function, its an adaptation. So by reducing it with medication it exasperates the problem.

But ok there is logical reason to get on statins im sure everyone will tell me.  

Oh yes a doctor tried to get me on blood pression medication as well when i was 26 and when i was having major sleeping problems. +1

I needed "prevention". 

Edited March 22, 2023 by integral

[LSD-Rumi]

@Leo Gura I read recently that gut problems may prevent the proper absorption of thyroid medication. Maybe your SIBO disease is connected to the failure of the treatment of your thyroid?