Leo hypothyrodism problem?

[LSD-Rumi]

@Leo Gura I did ask you why don't you just take levothyroxine before , and you answered that it doesn't work for you.

I am actually a doctor and we never learned that such thing can happen, we learned that virutally all people respond to the treatment. Did your doctor acknowledge that you don't respond to treatment or is it something you just assumed. Maybe you just need a higher dose.

Edited March 20, 2023 by LSD-Rumi

[Leo Gura]

Doctors never acknowledge their errors.

[LSD-Rumi]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

Doctors never acknowledge their errors.

hahah, true. But that's doesn't answer my question.

[OBEler]

@LSD-Rumi haha you are a cool doctor. 

Dont get high on your own supply

[LSD-Rumi]

31 minutes ago, OBEler said:

@LSD-Rumi haha you are a cool doctor. 

Dont get high on your own supply

There is nothing to get high on other than stupid opioids 

[vibv]

@LSD-Rumi What about Stimulants and Dissociatives?

But yeah... contemporary medicine isn't as advanced as doctors want to believe. In fact believing that it was leads to it being stagnant.

I myself had various encounters with doctors that sweared something I experienced couldn't possibly be true, because they never learned it that way. Ironically I was the only one that had direct experience of what was talked about in that conversation.

Edited March 21, 2023 by vibv

[LSD-Rumi]

@vibv Yeah, our current way of learning and practicing medicine is very retarded tbh.

[The0Self]

22 hours ago, LSD-Rumi said:

@Leo Gura I did ask you why don't you just take levothyroxine before , and you answered that it doesn't work for you.

I am actually a doctor and we never learned that such thing can happen, we learned that virutally all people respond to the treatment. Did your doctor acknowledge that you don't respond to treatment or is it something you just assumed. Maybe you just need a higher dose.

It's actually a very common talking point in the "people with diet or thyroid related mood disorders" space that switching to triiodothyronine (T3) works far better than levothyroxine (T4).

There's some evidence pointing to the notion of T3/T4 ratio being somehow important for mood -- T3/T4 too high is associated with euphoria; the inverse (T4/T3) too high is associated with overstimulation, elevated heart rate, hot flashes, and depression -- well, directly introducing T4 into the system would seem to be a great way to wreck that ratio.

21 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Doctors never acknowledge their errors.

What worries me is the number of people being prescribed T4, when so many people I've seen switch to T3 felt so much better on it. It forces me to intuit that maybe T3 should be more first-line. How did you feel on triiodothyronine/T3?

Edited March 21, 2023 by The0Self

[LSD-Rumi]

@The0Self T3 is weaker than T4  but it gets converted to T4 in the body anyways, so I don't see the point of taking T3 if it is gonna be converted to T4

PS: oh, sorry, it is the other way around.

Edited March 21, 2023 by LSD-Rumi

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, The0Self said:

What worries me is the number of people being prescribed T4, when so many people I've seen switch to T3 felt so much better on it. It forces me to intuit that maybe T3 should be more first-line. How did you feel on triiodothyronine/T3?

I take both T4 and T3, but they have no significant effect on me. I tried high doses and it doesn't help. High doses are not good for long-term health. So I take moderate doses to normalize my bloodwork.

Edited March 21, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, LSD-Rumi said:

@The0Self T3 is weaker than T4  but it gets converted to T4 in the body anyways, so I don't see the point of taking T3 if it is gonna be converted to T4

Some people struggle to convert T4 into T3. T4 by itself is useless if your body fails to convert it.

Thyroid problems are a lot more complicated than just these two hormones.

Edited March 21, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Michael569]

@LSD-Rumi isn't that the other way around? T4 -> T3 hence why some people choose to supplement T3 due to potential conversion issues?

My knowledge on thyroid pathophysiology is garbage as I don't work with hypo at all but from what I recall it is one of those areas where's genetics are a bitch and nutritional manipulations mostly don't do shit and neither do most other supplements. I've actually never heard about a case of hypothyroidism reversal other than pharmacological management, but that's kinda the case with most health conditions, especially the long-term chronic ones. 

Most natural, naturopathic, herbal and lifestyle modifications are quite poor for this condition. It's probably because people don't die of hypothyroidism and medicine can manage it pretty well so there is no incentive for much new research compared to something like cardiology or neurodegeneration 

Edited March 21, 2023 by Michael569

[integral]

Thyroid hormone is over prescribed, there is a severe epidemic happening destroying peoples lives.

Some random example of when not to give some one thyroid hormone.

Right after a pregnancy, a huge portion of the population of woman are put on thyroid replacement right after a birth where they never get off of it and it SEVERLY effects there mental state for the rest of there lives. If your thyroid hormone is now that does not mean to put people on replacement. If its low RIGHT AFTER PREGNANCY LEAVE IT until it recovers.

A 20 year old that looks perfect comes into your office with low thyroid hormone because of severe sleep deprivation, DONT GIVE HIM REPLACEMENT.

99% of thyroid replacement is given to people who dont need it and who are in a TEMPERARY state of low thyroid hormone. If you give these people replacement when they don't need it it destroys there mental state.

Thyroid replace causes major mental health problems. 

Edited March 21, 2023 by integral

[Michael569]

6 minutes ago, integral said:

Thyroid replace causes major mental health problems. 

maybe but the alternative is (for most people) unmanaged TSH levels and as a consequence of that risk of hyperlipidaemia. People with hypothyroidism (unmanaged) have an increased risk of stroke, atherosclerosis and myocardial infarction so thyroid meds are the lesser evil. 

Ofcourse you still wanna tinker with your health as much as you can but this is one where, until other therapy is proven to be successful I'd err on the side of caution. 

Edited March 21, 2023 by Michael569

[LSD-Rumi]

@Michael569 yeah my.bad, t4 to t3.

[LSD-Rumi]

@integral no this is wrong. Thyroid hormone is given only to people who actually need it and it is monitored through the level of another related hormone called TSH. If you get too much medication, TSH will go down and your doctor will reduce the dose.

Edited March 21, 2023 by LSD-Rumi

[The0Self]

2 hours ago, LSD-Rumi said:

@The0Self T3 is weaker than T4  but it gets converted to T4 in the body anyways, so I don't see the point of taking T3 if it is gonna be converted to T4

Thyroid releases T4, which is later deiodinated to T3, the more active form. You have it backwards -- T3 is 3-4x more potent than T4, which is kind of like a storage mechanism for T3 (kind of like how DHEA-S acts as the hormonal storage mechanism for DHEA). I saw you mention you're a doctor, but it appears you just got those mixed up.

The problem is not everyone converts T3 to T4 efficiently, it's just rare enough that it would seem to be a better idea to introduce the molecule further back in the hormonal chain -- T4 is the form the thyroid gland directly releases, not T3 -- it seems more prudent to use T4... But the reality is, using T4 can have unintended consequences, because (of course) the T3/T4 ratio decreases when T4 is introduced exogenously... and the T3/T4 ratio may actually be critically important for mood. So unbeknownst to many doctors, you pretty much never want to give a patient T4-only -- just to be safe, always give either T3 alone, or T3 and T4 combined... That's not commonly practiced, but it should be.

[The0Self]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

I take both T4 and T3, but they have no significant effect on me. I tried high doses and it doesn't help. High doses are not good for long-term health. So I take moderate doses to normalize my bloodwork.

What about low, moderate, and also moderate-high doses of T3-only? Zero T4, maximizing the T3/T4 ratio in the body. I'd be surprised if you haven't tried each of those, but if not, it could be worth a shot.

If you're concerned about unintended and unforeseeable consequences of having no T4 (I'm not aware of any avenues for those but obviously can't know for sure), you could maybe take basically a micro-dose of T4 with a significant dose of T3.

Edited March 21, 2023 by The0Self

[Leo Gura]

@The0Self My issue is not simply a lack of thyroid hormone. That is just a symptom of a deeper problem. I have a genetic autoimmune disorder. My mother has it too. I've had it since I was a teen, and no simple external solution, like a supplement, is going to fix it.

Edited March 21, 2023 by Leo Gura

[LSD-Rumi]

@Leo Gura Your disease (Hashimoto) is Basically anntibodies that prevent synthesizing T3 and T4. So it is simply a lack of those hormones, and that is why hormone replacement  is supposed to work in all people But Hshimoto  can also be associated with other autoimmune disases. Maybe you have another disease you don't know about?