It's better for WOMEN to be ADORERS: understanding the balance of attraction

[Zion]

On 3/20/2023 at 8:06 PM, Emerald said:

Men like the idea of an adoring woman in fantasy, but they don’t actually respond very well to it in reality.

And men certainly don’t fall in love by receiving adoration.

These male/female dynamics are important to understand…

- Women tend to fall in love by receiving.

- Men tend to fall in love by giving.

The more he gives and invests, the deeper he will love.

And the more she allows herself to receive of him, the deeper she will love.

This is the archetypal lover and beloved dynamic.

The lover must always adore the beloved a little bit more than that beloved adores the lover. 

And when a woman looks up to a man and has the default frame of adoration, it subtly communicates that she sees his value as higher and her value as lower.

And it foists the man up onto a pedestal and into the Feminine receiver/selector mode, while she tries to play the part of the Masculine giver as she gives her adoration unconditionally.

This is why doing things for a man to get him to be interested backfires.

This includes cooking for him, having sex with him, adoring him, cleaning for him, etc.

Men will certainly enjoy these things. But he won’t feel compelled to pursue because a woman in giving mode is in her Masculine energy.

Men are compelled to pursue challenging woman who make them chase a bit. This requires the woman to have relatively high standards to spark her feelings of adoration.

This would imply that men & women are constantly changing from masculine to feminine & vise versa. Are you saying that, in truth, there is no masculine & feminine? It seems with the understanding above, everyone is just as masculine as they are feminine; as they are both displaying the same traits of the other to gain the other's attraction. Meaning there is no true definition of masculine or feminine, there is just attraction by means of the system the sexes live in together.

[StarStruck]

@Squeekytoy
Emerald doesn’t under stand that chasing doesn’t equal adoring somebody. 
 

Chasing =\= adoring 

Girls only want to be chased by a guy they adore!!!

Adore = look up to, seeing equal or higher value than themselves 

Girls are hypergamous by nature. This is a generally accepted fact in psychology and socially. So yea, a guy can chase a girl but if this guy is not worthy of her adoration he will be labeled a creep. While the another guy who is worthy of the girl’s adoration (because of hypergamy) she will be receptive to it and not labeled a creep.

It is amazing how blind females are to this dynamic. Even Emerald who is into psychology doesn’t understand basic male female attraction but buys into that feminist Disney movie narrative. 

 

Edited March 23, 2023 by StarStruck

[Emerald]

19 hours ago, Zion said:

This would imply that men & women are constantly changing from masculine to feminine & vise versa. Are you saying that, in truth, there is no masculine & feminine? It seems with the understanding above, everyone is just as masculine as they are feminine; as they are both displaying the same traits of the other to gain the other's attraction. Meaning there is no true definition of masculine or feminine, there is just attraction by means of the system the sexes live in together.

There is a constant ebb and flow between the Masculine and Feminine in all things… including human beings.

But in the broad strokes sense, some things/people are more Masculine than they are Feminine. And vice versa.

But if you zoom in, you will always find Masculine facets in the Feminine and Feminine facets within the Masculine.

So, paradoxically… some people are more Masculine and some people are more Feminine… BUT simultaneously (if you get down to the granular level) everyone has infinite facets of both…

BUT in the absolute paradigm all dichotomies are illusory and collapse.

So… some people are more Masculine than they are Feminine and vice versa.

And everyone is equally Masculine and Feminine.

And no one is Masculine and Feminine.

All three are true from different paradigmatic vantage points.

But if you want to get practical with dating/relationship dynamics and you want to create a Masculine/Feminine polarity between two people, it’s good to know about the Lover and Believe archetype and how to apply it.

Edited March 24, 2023 by Emerald

[Emerald]

15 hours ago, StarStruck said:

@Squeekytoy
Emerald doesn’t under stand that chasing doesn’t equal adoring somebody. 

Chasing =\= adoring 

Girls only want to be chased by a guy they adore!!!

Adore = look up to, seeing equal or higher value than themselves 

Girls are hypergamous by nature. This is a generally accepted fact in psychology and socially. So yea, a guy can chase a girl but if this guy is not worthy of her adoration he will be labeled a creep. While the another guy who is worthy of the girl’s adoration (because of hypergamy) she will be receptive to it and not labeled a creep.

It is amazing how blind females are to this dynamic. Even Emerald who is into psychology doesn’t understand basic male female attraction but buys into that feminist Disney movie narrative. 

I do understand how people become attracted to one another and how relationships form… quite well, if I do say so myself.

I’ve had several serious relationships that have all ranged from 1 year together to 9 years together.

And I’ve learned a lot on the topic from a practical and archetypal perspective.

And I’ve worked with over 400 male and female clients… with many of them exploring the topics of dating, relationships, and sexuality with my guidance.

And I’ve also had direct experience of Divine Feminine and Divine Masculine in my plant medicine experiences.

And from all of this, I can tell you that your internet bro-science understanding of male/female attraction dynamics is severely lacking in terms of the psychological and practical understanding of how people actually function.

It seems to me that you’re just reading a bunch of stuff on the internet about women and believing that it’s true.

But one thing I would ask you about your perspective on male/female dynamics is… how’s that working out for you?

[Roy]

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

I’ve had several serious relationships that have all ranged from 1 year together to 9 years together.

Just out of curiosity, what work did you have to do to initiate those relationships besides just saying, "yes that sounds like fun" when those guys walked up to you and asked you out?

[Emerald]

28 minutes ago, Roy said:

Just out of curiosity, what work did you have to do to initiate those relationships besides just saying, "yes that sounds like fun" when those guys walked up to you and asked you out?

Only one of my relationships began that way.

Relationship #1 was when I was 16-20. We worked together at KFC for about a year. And he was a very social stoner guy. He threw a party at his house for New Years Eve and invited me. And I spent the next three months hanging out with him as friends, practically living at his house with him and his family. One night we were horsing around and we finally kissed after heavy flirting for months. It was mutual initiation.

Relationship #2 was from 20-29. This is my relationship with my husband. I was out busking outside of a bar that he was drinking at. And he sparked up a conversation with me. We talked until dawn. The next night he tracked me down again in my usual busking spot and asked me to go to dinner with him. So, he initiated and it was similar to the scenario you gave.

Relationship #3 was from 29-30. I met him through my channel. After several months of chatting about spiritual stuff and inner work, he got up the courage to confess his feelings for me just for the sake of honesty as a part of his inner work. And I was quite surprised because I felt the same. So, he kind of initiated. But I let him know my feelings later that day, and the relationship sprung up from there.

Relationship #4 was from 31-32 and lasted exactly a year to the day. We had been chatting for a few months as friends because of mutual interests in spirituality and psychology. He had/has a lot of deep understandings about esoteric things, so we were always emailing each other back and forth, nerding out about psycho-spiritual stuff. And I developed feelings for him. So, I texted him and let him know how I felt. So, I initiated. He and I are still really good friends.

Relationship #5 is my current relationship. I’ve known him for 4.5 years. We got together last year when we met up to do an Ayahuasca ceremony together which I suggested since I knew he was interested in doing one. And the initiation was mutual though I probably took a stronger role in the initiation because I knew he would worry that he’s stepping over boundaries.

Four out of five of these relationships grew organically from a platonic relationship first that developed over the course of months or years.

[StarStruck]

2 hours ago, Roy said:

Just out of curiosity, what work did you have to do to initiate those relationships besides just saying, "yes that sounds like fun" when those guys walked up to you and asked you out?

?

Emerald might be good at weeding out good potential mates from bad potential mates. In fact she gives very harsh advice to young women on this forum how to judge men. But she has no idea what it takes to be a high value man in the first place. 

4 hours ago, Emerald said:

 

But one thing I would ask you about your perspective on male/female dynamics is… how’s that working out for you?

I'm trying to figure things out just like everybody else? And I wouldn't say the maker of the PsycHacks videos I post is bro science. This guy has high creds in the field of psychology and helped thousands of clients.

Obviously I'm wrong about some stuff like I expect girls to take the lead and I obviously revised my position on this because I found out feminine girls don't chase unless you are a rockstar or something.

But my view on the point in the original topic hasn't changed. It is better for guys to be the adored, not adorer. In other words: a guy should focus on his life purpose and becoming a total package to become worthy of adoration.

This is in line with Leo's advice which is to focus on life purpose instead of the girl. The girl should be your second love, life purpose your first love. And that is my approach to life at this moment. I do minimal effort to get a girl with feminine young girls (my strategy isn't working out with them but I'm fine with that)  but it does work with older women (my strategy works out with them) because I'm not interested in relationships currently. I'm focused on personal development, meditation and sexual transmutation.

Edited March 24, 2023 by StarStruck

[Emerald]

8 hours ago, Squeekytoy said:

@StarStruck There's observable data and then there's pet theories. The mind just likes to think that it has a grip on things, because then it can just squeeze itself into the little boxes it comes up with and presto, win. But life doesn't actually work like that.

This may come as a shock to some guys, but women are also just people. They're not aliens. Yes there are some notable psychological differences, but beneath all that they also happen to be super relatable. You're entertaining all these little theories about women simply because you aren't relating to them directly. And those theories can only get in the way of that.

Why not look at the world directly instead of through these contrived filters. You'd think that men and women are at opposite ends of the spectrum, but when you broaden your view a bit the differences become relatively minor. Women are just people. It's not that difficult to relate to people, unless you aren't one yourself. You don't need some youtuber to tell you how.

?

[Roy]

15 hours ago, StarStruck said:

Emerald might be good at weeding out good potential mates from bad potential mates. In fact she gives very harsh advice to young women on this forum how to judge men. But she has no idea what it takes to be a high value man in the first place. 

Here is my foundational advice for you. Look at it this way man;

Listen to men's advice if you want to know how to start a relationship.

Listen to women's advice if you want to know how to maintain a relationship.

Attraction Phase =/= Relationship Phase. They are two completely separate things where your strategy and behavior operates completely differently. Women don't understand this because they get to bypass the Attraction Phase completely, it doesn't exist from their POV and experience. That's why Emeralds advice seems frustrating to you.

Once you get that girlfriend though and you are both committed to each other, her advice is amazing for keeping things healthy.

I've been following this basic principles for 5 years and my sex/love life has been nothing but dandy. I've never had a bad break-up or awful experience yet with women in their 20's, 30's or 40's.

Edited March 24, 2023 by Roy

[something_else]

13 minutes ago, Roy said:

Here is my foundational advice for you. Look at it this way man;

Listen to men's advice if you want to know how to start a relationship.

Listen to women's advice if you want to know how to maintain a relationship.

Attraction Phase =/= Relationship Phase. They are two completely separate things where your strategy and behavior operates completely differently. Women don't understand this because they get to bypass the Attraction Phase completely, it doesn't exist from their POV and experience. That's why Emeralds advice seems frustrating to you.

Once you get that girlfriend though and you are both committed to each other, her advice is amazing for keeping things healthy.

I've been following this basic principles for 5 years and my sex/love life has been nothing but dandy. I've never had a bad break-up or awful experience yet with women in their 20's, 30's or 40's.

This is a really great explanation and I’m probably going to steal it from you  at least the part about attraction/maintaining

I think that’s a really good way of putting it

[Bobby_2021]

On 21/3/2023 at 8:36 AM, Emerald said:

Men like the idea of an adoring woman in fantasy, but they don’t actually respond very well to it in reality.

And men certainly don’t fall in love by receiving adoration.

The dude in the video is not talking about attraction or falling in love but rather maintain a long term relationship. For initiating attraction, men do not fall in love by receiving adoration. The man has to put on his romantic chaser hat and shoot his shot.

On 21/3/2023 at 8:36 AM, Emerald said:

These male/female dynamics are important to understand…

- Women tend to fall in love by receiving.

- Men tend to fall in love by giving

The giver is NOT the adorer. The adorer is the taker, emotion wise. The adorer gets/takes a lot of emotions from adoring the woman or the man. I personally love to adore someone else since that is way more exciting than being beloved. And women particularly want to feel the roller-coaster of emotions. This is a privilege extended only to the adorer. Most people would want to be adorers if given the chance. Being the beloved doesn't involve much work. It's just standing there thinking if you are ready to be loved by the dudes around you. Which is what is happening in the attraction phase. You love to love others simple because of what it makes you feel. All the beloved has to do is to give the green signal for allowing herself and opening herself up to be loved. 

You can have heterosexual relationships to loosely fit two of the abstractions given below. 

1. The father-daughter dynamic.

2. The mother-son dynamic.

The dude in the video is talking about the first dynamic where the woman respects and adores her man like would a daughter adores her father and sees his as her hero. The man loves her as if she is a child. He loves her for what she is. He takes care of things so that there isn't anything too harsh that she has to worry about. In return he requires her to be a good girl, not cause too much havoc, do her simple duties etc.

Adoration should not be mixed up with love. 

And the dude is not saying that one should not adore the woman. Both can adore and love each other as much as they want. It is just that it is better when the woman adores the man more.

If you want another way to think about the dynamic, then think of the 

3. Celebrity-Fan dynamic

A celebrity loves his/her fans, but they do not adore their fans. And they do not get a roller coaster of emotions when they are signing at a concert. They are just doing their job and getting paid for it. But the fans attending the concert are having an intense flow of emotions of their lifetime that they consider it worth paying hundreds of dollars for dancing in a crowded venue full of strangers.

[Bobby_2021]

11 hours ago, Roy said:

Listen to men's advice if you want to know how to start a relationship.

Listen to women's advice if you want to know how to maintain a relationship.

I do agree that men are good at giving advice on how to initiate a relationship. Men are good at keeping other men accountable for putting in the work and get results when it is in their control to do so while doing the maximum work. 

But the same cannot be expected of women. According to women other women are just queens and men should all the work and be responsible for everything. They all purport some version of that which I do not agree at all. Many women can't even describe the list of things to be expected of a woman in a relationship while they are more than happy to give a list of things that men are required to follow.

[Bobby_2021]

1 hour ago, Squeekytoy said:

@Bobby_2021 Those are immature and unhealthy ways of relating. I don't doubt that this is how it works for many people, but it doesn't strike me as something worth perpetuating on a self-actualization forum. It's a false dichotomy, there is the third option: Outgrow chimpery.

Wow such an accurate analysis of everything I have said. Thanks for your advice. Now I am a male feminist. 

[StarStruck]

30 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

What qualities in you, you want women to adore the most? What are the things in you that deserve admiration?

Why do you believe that you don't deserve admiration unless you reach x and y?

That is not how being a guy works. Perhaps that works if you are a girl.  Fertile women have inherent value because of their reproductive value. Guys have to prove themselves to be worthy of reproduction. But put aside long term relationships, even for short term relationships, just being a guy is not enough. Certain things are expected like being fun, somewhat confident, not too traumatized, having some passion, and so on. While if you want to have a short term relationship being a girl, you just have to smile.

Quote

What if you'll be her second love too? Like, both of you have your own personal interest that is the first love, and your relationship is the second love for both of you. Is that sounds ideal for you?

Or, you want you to be her first love, even though she's your second love?

Hm, I haven't thought about that because I'm busy with different stuff.

Edited March 25, 2023 by StarStruck

[Bobby_2021]

15 hours ago, Lila9 said:

Those dynamics in romantic relationship are not ideal and even unhealthy. Women don't want their partner to be their daddy and men don't want their partner to be their mommy.

Unless they have an unfulfilled need from childhood that they try to compensate throught the choice of their partner, it doesn't work.

That's why I said *loosely fit*. It's an archetype used for theoretical discussions. This doesn't have a direct correspondence with reality. Just pay attention to the admiration part.

15 hours ago, Lila9 said:

Admiration comes naturally with love, I believe

 A a lot of the confusion in this thread is mixing up love with adoration/admiration. 

Leo loves all his audience, but he doesn't admire them. That's why he calls them rats and dogs. Well he probably still loves them. But sometimes the respect is lacking. And that's perfectly fine.

On the other hand most of the audience of Leo *loves and admires* him.

Adoration has more to do with reverence, respect and being happy that you got to see/listen or to be with that person.

Love is a much more purer abstract and less human notion than adoration. Adoration is purely a human thing. 

[Bobby_2021]

16 hours ago, Lila9 said:

Why? because you are a man? If you were a woman, would you think the same?

Most people if given a choice will choose to be a the adorer. Because the adorer is the one getting all the excitement and emotional cocktail of adoring their partner.

I would always choose to be the adorer if given the chance whether I am a man or a woman. This is an easy choice.

That's why I want to give her the chance of being excited to be with me.

This is like getting a selfi with your favourite celebrity. Getting a pic with a celebrity is a huge deal for the fan. But it doesn't do much for the celebrity who is probably tired of posing for photos. The fan is who is making most out of the moment by being with their favourite musician or actor. 

Get it? 

[StarStruck]

Who is the adorer and who is the one who is being adored? 

 

[StarStruck]

Again

She explains it very well. Pursuing is ok, not chasing. One can be the adored and be a pursuer at the same time.

The whole thing of "pickup" is that she likes you more than she likes you in order to keep the power in the dynamic and be able to lead the relationship.

If you want to lead her (and most women want to be lead), it is important not to chase, because chasing in essence is not leading.

 

Edited April 1, 2023 by StarStruck

[Bobby_2021]

On 3/31/2023 at 11:59 AM, StarStruck said:

Who is the adorer and who is the one who is being adored? 

She doesn't look happy for sure. This relationship isn't going to last long. 

[StarStruck]

1 hour ago, Bobby_2021 said:

She doesn't look happy for sure. This relationship isn't going to last long. 

She is rich. Of course she is not happy Sherlock.