Suffering is the best teacher

[Breakingthewall]

Just now, LSD-Rumi said:

I don't fear pain. I am just explaining the mechanics of pain and suffering. Most spiritual people think they transcended pain and suffering when they didn't. Life can be very brutal, I am just expalining that.

Yeah but the real suffering is mental, spiritual. It's feeling of lack of love. 

it is the dissonance between what is, which is absolute love, and what should be, that is a mental creation. it is as if your being is separated from love and is flowing in the void, parallel to love. the difference between the two tracks is anxiety, suffering. life is suffering, it is a fight against what is. anxiety, misery . that's how we humans live

[Moksha]

I agree with those of you that have said people need love. Maslow wasn't wrong about that:

However every attachment, including the need for love, has the capacity to obscure the absolute Love that you are. Of course it's important to meet your human needs, but you can do so without supercharging them with your attention, beyond what is actually needed.

It is one thing to feed the body, and another to become a glutton. You can enjoy healthy relationships, without constantly needing the approval of others in order to be happy. Enduring happiness only comes from within. Everything else, including other people, is transient and if indulged in too heavily will only lead to suffering.

[Moksha]

9 minutes ago, Squeekytoy said:

Nobody said he should be attached to love. Just that he could use some.

Everyone could use some love, but for the vast majority it won't make a difference to whether they awaken or not. There are people who are showered with love their entire lives and never have the grit to dig within for the Love that is their actual nature.

[Moksha]

1 hour ago, Squeekytoy said:

Oh ok, in that case why bother. Just a wasted effort then. Such a drag.

Anything that enhances the quality of the dream is not a wasted effort. Fulfilling the common needs in Maslow's hierarchy, including human love, is certainly beneficial, as long as it doesn't become an attachment.

Most people will never fully awaken, and that is perfectly fine. Far from a drag, people can still live beautiful lives. For the few that are relentless in deeply questioning everything, willing to strip away the false no matter how urgently the mind complains, and earnest enough to tunnel through the detritus of their conditioning, the realization of their true nature is its own reward. By comparison, the unconscious life is a candle trying to outshine the sun. There is nothing like the unconditional love of lucid living.

[Matthew85]

I don't agree. This is often touted in spiritual communities. Love is much more transformative than suffering. 

[Breakingthewall]

unconditional human love will make you have a better life than the horrible desert of emptiness that many find, surrounded by competitive psychopaths with their fake smiles, but having your needs met will make you settle in and never get out of there, and in the end, by far human love, you will continue to be a mortal being who struggles not to die, a trap, and always limited, narrow, and addicted to the others. suffering is a good push, if you are ambitious, you will want to get out of it at all costs. the only way out is to break your limits.

Edited March 21, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[gettoefl]

12 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

In a sense though, writhing on the floor because your arm was just cut off is suffering..it's not a holistic or long term suffering (although there is still the aftermath and the psychological aspect of losing your arm) so it's still a form of suffering.

we have to permit a certain level of wellbeing and wholeness to a body to make any discussion on suffering meaningful

if you cut an arm off that body isn't a body anymore, it is two parts of a body

a body has a life force and wants to keep on being that entity until it breathes its last

suffering is psychological and conquerable but you have to let the body have some givens that are let be

you can't modify the rules in the middle of the game, that is cheating

 

[gettoefl]

11 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

You can view it that way but you can also view pain as a subset or type of suffering.   For the guy who doesn't feel physical pain (its a real phenomenon)  he wouldn't have this subset of suffering...but he can suffer as you say, by rejecting circumstances.  It just depends on your definition of suffering.  Which is relative.

to override body pain can be a worse curse than accepting it

your life expectancy will be shot and quality of life meager

best be sensible and allow a body to go its way just like it was designed

give it its daily bread so you can be living the dream

[gettoefl]

11 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Yeah but the real suffering is mental, spiritual. It's feeling of lack of love. 

it is the dissonance between what is, which is absolute love, and what should be, that is a mental creation. it is as if your being is separated from love and is flowing in the void, parallel to love. the difference between the two tracks is anxiety, suffering. life is suffering, it is a fight against what is. anxiety, misery . that's how we humans live

?

[gettoefl]

38 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

unconditional human love will make you have a better life than the horrible desert of emptiness that many find, surrounded by competitive psychopaths with their fake smiles, but having your needs met will make you settle in and never get out of there, and in the end, by far human love, you will continue to be a mortal being who struggles not to die, a trap, and always limited, narrow, and addicted to the others. suffering is a good push, if you are ambitious, you will want to get out of it at all costs. the only way out is to break your limits.

looking outside perpetuates the past, looking inside engineers the future

if you want more details, read Dr. joe's Breaking the habit of being yourself

chat-gpt:

Quote

Dr. Joe Dispenza's book "Breaking the Habit of Being Yourself" emphasizes the idea that in order to create a better future for yourself, you need to stop looking outside of yourself and instead look within. He argues that constantly focusing on external circumstances perpetuates the past and keeps you stuck in old patterns and habits. However, by turning your attention inward and cultivating self-awareness, you can start to create a new reality for yourself.

One important aspect of this process is learning to handle suffering. According to Dr. Joe, suffering is often caused by our attachment to past experiences and the stories we tell ourselves about them. By acknowledging and accepting our pain, rather than avoiding it or trying to distract ourselves from it, we can start to let go of these attachments and create space for something new to emerge.

To handle suffering, Dr. Joe recommends practicing mindfulness and meditation, as well as reframing your thoughts and beliefs about yourself and your experiences. By focusing on the present moment and cultivating a positive mindset, you can start to break free from old patterns and create a better future for yourself.

 

[Breakingthewall]

12 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

looking outside perpetuates the past, looking inside engineers the future

if you want more details, read Dr. joe's Breaking the habit of being yourself

chat-gpt:

 

For me the only thing that works is to raise your consciousness. the normal thing is to be mentally suffering and seek a way out of this with therapy, with mindfulness techniques, or by changing your external circumstances. and your suffering is always there, since you are the one who is constantly creating it at this moment, and you cannot stop doing it because at the current level of consciousness your mind processes that way, and there is nothing else to do.

raising your consciousness is not just anything, it is a true art. you have to understand very deeply, on a non-conceptual level, what you are. once you manage to raise your consciousness somewhat, you have found the key, you are already on the highway. psychedelics are extremely useful.

[gettoefl]

51 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

For me the only thing that works is to raise your consciousness. the normal thing is to be mentally suffering and seek a way out of this with therapy, with mindfulness techniques, or by changing your external circumstances. and your suffering is always there, since you are the one who is constantly creating it at this moment, and you cannot stop doing it because at the current level of consciousness your mind processes that way, and there is nothing else to do.

raising your consciousness is not just anything, it is a true art. you have to understand very deeply, on a non-conceptual level, what you are. once you manage to raise your consciousness somewhat, you have found the key, you are already on the highway. psychedelics are extremely useful.

for me it is about calming down and no longer being a main player in the movie ... i am the whole not the part

Quote

Perfect calmness is when you do not change. No matter what you see, you stay relaxed: peaceful. You may say this is impossible to do; on the contrary, it’s not. You can make yourself this way for this is your true state to begin with. Perfect calmness, perfect happiness. R.Adams

 

[Yimpa]

Leo’s blog post from today does a great job expanding on this idea of suffering:

https://www.actualized.org/insights/what-is-empathy