Solipsism is Bullshit - The Atheist Experience

[r0ckyreed]

Please watch the video below.  I will present a summary and analysis of the arguments presented here.

 

Summary 

The speaker: The speaker talks about how he debates with religious people and finds it easy, but finds it hard when talking to spiritual people because they talk about the limitations of reasoning and the human mind.  The "spiritual people" claim that the subjective reality is what is most solid and the only thing that can be known and consciousness is the key to experiencing the world and everyone lives in their own illusion of subjective reality, and science is part of this illusion because we can only know and speak about things subjectively.  We cannot know anything more than our own minds.  The speaker wants to know how to reply against solipsism and how to argue for the materialist/rationalist worldview.

Matt's response: The host Matt Dillahunty states that "these people aren't worth having a conversation with" because they cannot be reasoned with because they have thrown out reasoning and claim everything is subjective.  When one throws out the notion of objectivity and truth, we cannot get anywhere.  Even if solipsism were true, Matt says that he has to act in the reality that he experiences, which seems to indicate that it is shared.  There is no other reality to experience.  Solipsism being true does not impact "my life" at all because we have to deal with the reality that we are given, which there is no alternative.  If there is no truth and it is all subjective, then they cannot get to any objective claim.

Matt states that just because we cannot be absolutely certain about anything does not mean we do not know anything.  Reality is testable and consistent.  He says that if solipsism is true then "you are a figment in my imagination and not the other way around."

Matt's response to science/logic not being objective: Matt states that spiritual people are wrong when it comes to science and logical reasoning if they are right about solipsism because identity non-contradiction logic is absolute and true in all possible worlds.  They cannot even reason their claim without logic being true.  Thus, to convince someone who does not believe in reason is divorced from reality is a waste of time because you have to give a demonstration that it is a bad idea to be unreasonable.  If people do not accept reasoning then it is unreasonable to have a conversation with them.

Matt states that he cannot think of anything that would count as evidence for God.  He does not know what would convince him that God exists and that if God exists, God should know what it would take to convince him and thus is not "my responsibility."  Matt talks about how we can even doubt evidence of God as being a very sophisticated mass delusion, in which we are in a position where we cannot confirm anything.

Jen (the co-host) states that the brain has been demonstrated to be the origin of consciousness by neuroscience and alzheimer's where if there is damage to the brain, there is damage to their personality and consciousness.

Matt then talks about methodological naturalism and states that it is the view that only the natural world can be studied.  Then, he talks about how souls probably do not exist because of what we know about nature, science, and split-brain patients.

My Analysis

The speaker and hosts seem to be in the materialist/rationalist bias.  They already assume that reasoning is a given.  But they never question what is reason and what is reasonable and who has the best reasoning and the criteria for something to be reasonable is subjective.  They also overlook the simple truth that everything is subjective.  There is nothing in your direct experience that would suggest that there is any objective world a part from your senses.  The atheists fail to consider the reality and ramifications of solipsism and the Cogito.  The self cannot know anything but that it selfs!!  We are in a world where it seems like there are other consciousnesses, but Matt states that he "accepts the reality that is presented to him because there is no alternative."  Well, I could say the same thing about dreaming, and I am sure Matt and other atheists would claim that dreaming is less real than this world, which is also an unreasonable and unscientific claim.  

I think Tracie explains it the best here: 

She talks about how the solipsist makes a good point that we cannot know whether this world is the same as our dreams at night.  But she still makes the same claim as Matt that we have to accept the reality that is presented to us because there is no alternative.  That even if there is an objective world that we cannot access, this dreamworld that we are experiencing is a reality that we cannot escape from, so we might as well treat it as if it is real because we have not been presented with evidence that it isn't.

The issue is that they do not see how their minds are constructing their dream right now.  They dismiss hallucinations, NDE's, and other mystical experiences, but when it comes to the "physical reality" they do not apply that same level of skepticism.  They already create a duality between hallucination and reality without ever verifying that the physical world is not itself part of the Hallucination!!!  To create such a duality is itself a hallucination within the Hallucination!!  Or as Matt states later, The Mass Delusion.  We will get to that part later...

Matt states that those spiritual people are not worth having a conversation with.  But I would say that who is worth having a conversation with?  He is just using that  to cop out of considering their ideas all together and denies that there can be anything beyond reason because to state something beyond reasoning, you would have to use reasoning to explain it to a rationalist.  The rationalist is stuck so far up his own ass that he cannot even conceive of a world without reasoning.  The idea is so preposterous to a rationalists mind.  

Matt makes the claim that reality is testable and consistent.  But he does not consider that maybe that is part of the dream.  What we call reality is what we call consistent, but that does not mean that what is consistent is any more real than what is not.

Jen states that consciousness originates in the brain by what is tested and observed with alzheimer and split-brain patients.  But what is overlooked is that the brain, the instruments, test results, and the patients themselves are something that is held within consciousness!

Finally, Matt talks about how even if solipsism is true, that does not prove that a God exists and he states that he does not know what would convince him.  He gives the example of considering what if we were all mass deluded.  It seems ironic that he considers mass delusion when it comes to evidence for God, but when it comes to evidence for science and physicality, mass delusion does not even cross his own mind!  He does not consider that the reality that he is presented with is a mass delusion!  He does not realize he is God.  He puts the responsibility of God "proving itself to him" as God's responsibility.  That is like saying that you should put the responsibility of Truth-seeking to your mother.  Matt is God in denial that he is God.  Thus, he will never discover he is God because his ideas of God are other to his Self.  Matt does not hold science to its ultimate test.  If Matt was a true advocate and supporter of science, he would put God to the test and try out all of the meditation/psychedelic techniques to discover God.  The issue is that Matt has an operational definition of God that does not exist.  God cannot be operationally defined!! So, how do we test and prove God??  You don't get it.  You are operationally undefined!! Yet, you take your own existence for granted.  You cannot even prove you exist because all notions of proof of your existence assumes you exist to receive, understand, and construct the proof of the proof.

Don't let these atheists, intellectuals, scientists, or academics fool you into believing that they are smart.  They will use rationality to self-deceive you. The irony and paradox is that all of the Jordan Peterson's, Matt Dillahunty's, and Sam Harris's are complete fools, and yet they are still God in denial that they are God.  God is so intelligent that it is dumb.  The true purpose of life is to raise your awareness to the nature of your own intelligence and divinity.  

I rest my case.

 

Edited March 18, 2023 by r0ckyreed

[Nilsi]

What even is this lol.

First thing I do in the AI metaverse is imagine a teletalk show with Leo and Frank Yang debating Buddhists on God and Consciousness.

[Breakingthewall]

it is a matter of perspective. they think they are a perceiver perceiving an objective external reality, when this is an illusion and nothing external exists even as a concept

[Leo Gura]

28 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

If there is no truth and it is all subjective, then they cannot get to any objective claim.

This shows his total ignorance.

Solipsism is not a denial of truth. The claim is that solpsism is Absolute Truth. Solipsism isn't subjective, it's Absolute.

Edited March 18, 2023 by Leo Gura

[UnbornTao]

You are the only being in existence. Is this what's being discussed? I've heard from a couple of deeply conscious individuals that it's true, ha! Not that hearsay is valuable in this work...

Edited April 2, 2023 by UnbornTao

[Razard86]

16 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

You are the only being in existence. Is this what's being discussed?

I've heard it's true, ha! Not that hearsay has any value, but still...

Lol I love your signature, I am Batman. Yes you are, yes you are!!!

Also the entire video of the people....they are fools for one reason, they have never tested their premises. Spirituality is a Science!!! It's a Science of testing to see if these things are true. If you go far enough in this work YOU WILL VERIFY that you are the only thing that exists. That's why I laugh at people who make claims of, how do you know what work I am doing.

Easy, because solipsism is so obvious, so apparent, that you cannot discover it. It's like oxygen, you cannot easily discover oxygen or the famous analogy of a fish in water. The fish was always in water, that it cannot find water because it is in it.

But even that analogy falls short because the truth is the fish and the water are the same thing, so how the hell can the fish become aware of this? Anyway all intellectuals trying to use rationality to disprove Solipsism are too easy too beat in a debate because your direct experience is all you have. If you use that one tactic eventually all arguments collapse. So at a certain point, you will force them to admit....they know nothing. Then if they are brave enough they can venture forth.

Why Solipsism is amazing. 1. You created everything you see. 2. You created the human you are currently playing as, as well as everyone you love. 3. Every person you admire and pedastilize....IS LITERALLY YOU! So it kind forces you after awhile...to stop judging the character you are currently living as, and to stop putting limitations on your character. 3. You start to stare and marvel at everything you see. 4. As you do the work more and more, reality starts to appear MORE ALIVE, AND INTIMATE!!! 5. You can gain various spiritual abilities you didn't know you had which makes life seem even bigger than before. 6. Your appreciation for life expands even more. 7. You start to realize the silliness of identity, and how could you ever let something so flimsy as identity ever control you. Identity is a tool, identity is NOT you. 8. You start to realize that all belief systems are just constructs to limit your experience of reality and you start to look at life from a place of unknowing, of exploration, and discovery.

[Rahra]

Solipsism is bullshit, but Atheism is more so.

Math Dilunaty is certainly ignorant.

And every single one of his atheist-materialist beliefs are falsehood.

I utterly have destroyed atheist-materialism within myself I don’t know what more I can do to it lol

[Razard86]

7 hours ago, Rahra said:

Solipsism is bullshit, but Atheism is more so.

Math Dilunaty is certainly ignorant.

And every single one of his atheist-materialist beliefs are falsehood.

I utterly have destroyed atheist-materialism within myself I don’t know what more I can do to it lol

Seems we have a comedian here. Solipsism is so obvious to deny it is to admit absolute delusion. It is literally impossible for solipsism to not be the case. You have never confirmed anything outside of your direct experience in your entire life. Why do you think loneliness exists? Why do you think someone can feel lonely in a crowd of people?

But guess what? If you destroy the psychic barrier that is your human psyche (socialization/education) you will feel the entirety of your surroundings within you. That's right! If you are in a restaurant you will taste all the food being consumed, you will feel the heat of every person, you will feel the subtle ting of the tongue hitting the walls of the mouth of every speaker in the room. THEN YOU WILL KNOW THAT ALL EXPERIENCE IS WITHIN YOU AND THUS EVERYTHING IS YOU!!!

Anyone who denies solipsism reveals themselves to be a fraud on the forums and reveals they have not done any work. It's becoming annoying when I see people on the Spirituality forums doing this, because you do the same nonsense that every fundamentalist of religions do, you corrupt the teachings!!! You haven't even tried to go all the way and you come back with the B.S. that you have confirmed something, YOU HAVE CONFIRMED NOTHING!!!

I can even use your petty little science to prove solipsism if I wanted too, its not even hard to realize, but it is infinite in depth of how it can be explored. All this is said out of love, you only fool yourself in life, it's called self-deception.

 

[vladorion]

6 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

Seems we have a comedian here. Solipsism is so obvious to deny it is to admit absolute delusion. It is literally impossible for solipsism to not be the case. You have never confirmed anything outside of your direct experience in your entire life. Why do you think loneliness exists? Why do you think someone can feel lonely in a crowd of people?

But guess what? If you destroy the psychic barrier that is your human psyche (socialization/education) you will feel the entirety of your surroundings within you. That's right! If you are in a restaurant you will taste all the food being consumed, you will feel the heat of every person, you will feel the subtle ting of the tongue hitting the walls of the mouth of every speaker in the room. THEN YOU WILL KNOW THAT ALL EXPERIENCE IS WITHIN YOU AND THUS EVERYTHING IS YOU!!!

Anyone who denies solipsism reveals themselves to be a fraud on the forums and reveals they have not done any work. It's becoming annoying when I see people on the Spirituality forums doing this, because you do the same nonsense that every fundamentalist of religions do, you corrupt the teachings!!! You haven't even tried to go all the way and you come back with the B.S. that you have confirmed something, YOU HAVE CONFIRMED NOTHING!!!

I can even use your petty little science to prove solipsism if I wanted too, its not even hard to realize, but it is infinite in depth of how it can be explored. All this is said out of love, you only fool yourself in life, it's called self-deception.

 

The fact you get so triggered about it means solipsism is a belief you have and you have doubts about it.

[Carl-Richard]

56 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

You have never confirmed anything outside of your direct experience in your entire life.

My direct experience tells me other people are like me.

[Hojo]

The difference between not being 100 percent sure of solipsism and being 100 percent sure it can't be proven are miles apart. Saying we cannot be 100 percent certain it will rain today so we can't determine it to be fact is entirely different than I only have subjective experience so I can't ever be 100 percent certain that others exist. You can't even begin to argue about it and must make the assumption they are totally different.

[Breakingthewall]

solipsism says that there is nothing outside of you. this is true, it is impossible to prove otherwise. but accepting this, you have to accept that you are not aware of everything that is within you, for example, you aren't aware of creating your perception. therefore, you cannot demonstrate that the others that you see in your Inter are in turn conscious, and see others who are also conscious to infinity. everyone is you, but you are only aware of the tip of the iceberg

 

Edited March 20, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[liamnewsom202]

@Rahra how did you get to this?

[UnbornTao]

On 3/18/2023 at 11:19 PM, UnbornTao said:

You are the only being in existence. Is this what's being discussed?

I've heard from a couple of deeply conscious individuals that it's true, ha!

Not that hearsay is valuable in this work...

Hearing that, you may assume a couple of things:

1. considering self (what you identify as yourself) with you (your true nature)
2. thinking that you already know what you, your nature, is.

First, grasp who and what you authentically are.

On 3/19/2023 at 4:17 PM, Razard86 said:

Lol I love your signature, I am Batman. Yes you are, yes you are!!!

Always have been.

 

Edited April 2, 2023 by UnbornTao

[tuku747]

If you needed any evidence that we are all one mind, the perfectly synchronized sound of two atheists spontaneously screaming "You're A Solipsist?!?" as one should be enough evidence for you, lol.

Edited March 22, 2023 by tuku747

[An young being]

I have no experience regarding solipsism, but I have experienced great synchronicities that fundamentally need everyone and everything around me to work together just so that I can learn some things. If the universe can do that, then sollipsism is definitely possible.

[tuku747]

 

[Matthew85]

On 3/18/2023 at 11:50 AM, Leo Gura said:

Solipsism is not a denial of truth. The claim is that solpsism is Absolute Truth. Solipsism isn't subjective, it's Absolute.

@Leo Gura Are you going to expand on how this can be true for each of us in future teachings?

[tuku747]

13 minutes ago, Matthew85 said:

@Leo Gura Are you going to expand on how this can be true for each of us in future teachings?

The mind isn't selfish. It's self-less.

[Leo Gura]

6 hours ago, Matthew85 said:

@Leo Gura Are you going to expand on how this can be true for each of us in future teachings?

You'll never understand without Awakening.