Warrants for Putin

[Blackhawk]

32 minutes ago, kray said:

I’m just saying not to rattle the wrong cage. I guess in simple terms, I don’t think we want to make Russia, or Putin for that matter, the enemy in a swipe…remember that Russia is in the west’s backyard. Rattling that cage can be dangerous to Europe and the west. 

Russia/Putin made itself a enemy to us. It has already been our enemy for ages, way before Putin.

Our weapons are killing Russians and we are destroying Russia's economy with sanctions. So the ICC thing is nothing in comparison.

[Ima Freeman]

10 hours ago, Blackhawk said:

Russia/Putin made itself a enemy to US. It has already been OUR enemy for ages, way before Putin.

OUR weapons are killing Russians and WE are destroying Russia's economy with sanctions. So the ICC thing is nothing in comparison.

You know we aren't all Americans here 

 

[Blackhawk]

4 hours ago, Ima Freeman said:

You know we aren't all Americans here 

Doesn't matter, even if you happen to live in Russia or something you should in spirit be on the "we", good, democracy, western, free world, decent human side.

[Leo Gura]

46 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

"we", good, democracy, western, free world, decent human side.

It's not so simple.

You exclude half the world there.

Edited March 21, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Jowblob]

42 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

Doesn't matter, even if you happen to live in Russia or something you should in spirit be on the "we", good, democracy, western, free world, decent human side.

this boy is sleeping deeply

[Blackhawk]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's not so simple.

You exclude have the half world there.

And? It's not about numbers. It's about doing the right thing.

Being for Russia's war against Ukraine is doing the wrong thing. Also being "neutral" is doing the wrong thing. You don't passively stand and look when someone is getting raped. It's simple.

[Guest Tobia]

@Blackhawk

8 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

You don't passively stand and look when someone is getting raped. It's simple.

1) condemn the crime

2) investigate the crime and its intentions

3) you notice that the crime is happening because many other crimes had been committed since 2014

4) you address all crimes in a fair and balanced way so that they are ALL resolved

5) you do not act like an impulsive and vindictive simple-minded child 

Edited March 21, 2023 by Tobia

[Devin]

34 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

And? It's not about numbers. It's about doing the right thing.

Being for Russia's war against Ukraine is doing the wrong thing. Also being "neutral" is doing the wrong thing. You don't passively stand and look when someone is getting raped. It's simple.

         Do you know why Russia wants that territory? Russia is very landlocked and needs better access to waterway on their west side for growth. The West has become such a global juggernaut that it's arguable that it would be beneficial for world balance if Russia had this territory. They handed over crimea without shots fired, Putin expected that here as well.

        You use the term raped, but who would have been harmed had the West not supported Ukraine and Ukraine allowed Russia the Donbas region like Crimea?

Edited March 21, 2023 by Devin

[Leo Gura]

22 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

And? It's not about numbers. It's about doing the right thing.

Being for Russia's war against Ukraine is doing the wrong thing. Also being "neutral" is doing the wrong thing. You don't passively stand and look when someone is getting raped. It's simple.

You make a compelling point.

[Blackhawk]

12 minutes ago, Tobia said:

@Blackhawk

1) condemn the crime

2) investigate the crime and its intentions

3) you notice that the crime is happening because many other crimes had been committed since 2014

4) you address all crimes in a fair and balanced way so that they are ALL resolved

5) you do not act like an impulsive and vindictive simple-minded child 

So what is your solution to solve all the crimes?

10 minutes ago, Devin said:

         Do you know why Russia wants that territory? Russia is very landlocked and needs access to waterway on their east side for growth. The West has become such a global juggernaut that it's arguable that it would be beneficial for world balance if Russia had this territory. They handed over crimea without shots fired, Putin expected that here as well.

        You use the term raped, but who would have been harmed had the West not supported Ukraine and Ukraine allowed Russia the Donbas region like Crimea?

Russia is the world's largest country, do you think it needs to get bigger? There are much smaller countries which are content with their size and they don't rape innocent countries.

You think criminals should be allowed to take whatever they want? Would you be fine with for example North Korea annexing United States? You think the United States should be given without resistance to North Korea if North Korea wants it?  If not: why should Ukraine accept Russia annexing Ukraine?

[Guest Tobia]

@Blackhawk

4 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

So what is your solution to solve all the crimes?

What would happen if China:
1) supported a coup in Mexico
2) installed a nationalist, anti-america government in mexico city
3) flooded the country with weapons
4) looked the other way when the new mexican government murders thousands of english speakers near the the US border
5) constantly threatens to include Mexico in its military alliance, a chinese version of nato

Would it be understandable for the US to intervene in such case?

This is EXACTLY what happened in Ukraine since 2014 onwards.

Of course crimes are being committed by Russia now, but you cannot solve anything if you do not understand it

[Devin]

10 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

So what is your solution to solve all the crimes?

Russia is the world's largest country, do you think it needs to get bigger? There are much smaller countries which are content with their size and they don't rape innocent countries.

You think criminals should be allowed to take whatever they want? Would you be fine with for example North Korea annexing United States? You think the United States should be given without resistance to North Korea if North Korea wants it?  If not: why should Ukraine accept Russia annexing Ukraine?

       Yes but they have relatively poor sea access compared to their size, most access is in dastardly cold and remote areas.

        Those small countries are besties with the U.S., Russia is not, Russia is shunned in a lot of ways by the west. There is a growing imbalance of power for the West, that may not be a good thing for everyone, take Africa and the middle east for example, the west tries to impose their culture.

[Blackhawk]

10 minutes ago, Tobia said:

@Blackhawk

What would happen if China:
1) supported a coup in Mexico
2) installed a nationalist, anti-america government in mexico city
3) flooded the country with weapons
4) looked the other way when the new mexican government murders thousands of english speakers near the the US border
5) constantly threatens to include Mexico in its military alliance, a chinese version of nato

Would it be understandable for the US to intervene in such case?

This is EXACTLY what happened in Ukraine since 2014 onwards.

Of course crimes are being committed by Russia now, but you cannot solve anything if you do not understand it

That is not what happened.

[Guest Tobia]

@Blackhawk learn history. All the points i mentioned happened, one by one.

[Israfil]

1 hour ago, Blackhawk said:

That is not what happened.

That`s exactly what happened. The amount of pressure that was put on Ukraine in 2013, so it would join the EU, at the expense of the Ukrainian people, since it would severely provoke Russia, the general disregard of Ukraine for the 30% of the Russian-speaking population, that populate the eastern and southeastern portion of Ukraine and the last straw of Ukraine joining NATO is exactly what I would call a threat by the west. Let's remember that NATO was created with the promise of not expanding, and 13 more countries joined it after it was created.

If Russia created a military allegiance with Cuba, with the goal of "protecting it from the US", you would explode Havana into a billion pieces before I could smoke a full Cohiba. The West provoked this war in every possible way. They left Putin no other option.

 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Squeekytoy said:

Not only that but Russia has repeatedly and consistently warned against it the whole time. So when they finally drew the line, it was entirely expected, or at least it should have been.

This is also true.

And therein lies the impasse.

What Russia is currently doing is wrong. But they were cornered into it despite many warnings. So it is not like they are just acting evil for no good reason the way Americans like to pretend.

This is why actually listening to each other is so important to maintain peace. You can't just disregard the warnings and boundaries of the other party. You can't keep crossing someone's boundaries over and over again and expect pleasant results.

Edited March 21, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Vrubel]

@Leo Gura I think Ukrainians take full responsibility for manifesting their sovereign will to be with Europe, they are fighting it for it and they are even winning. 

[Leo Gura]

30 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

@Leo Gura I think Ukrainians take full responsibility for manifesting their sovereign will to be with Europe, they are fighting it for it and they are even winning. 

They certainly are. I just hope the cost is not too high for them.

Edited March 22, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Blackhawk]

6 hours ago, Tobia said:

@Blackhawk learn history. All the points i mentioned happened, one by one.

 

4 hours ago, Israfil said:

That`s exactly what happened. The amount of pressure that was put on Ukraine in 2013, so it would join the EU, at the expense of the Ukrainian people, since it would severely provoke Russia, the general disregard of Ukraine for the 30% of the Russian-speaking population, that populate the eastern and southeastern portion of Ukraine and the last straw of Ukraine joining NATO is exactly what I would call a threat by the west. Let's remember that NATO was created with the promise of not expanding, and 13 more countries joined it after it was created.

If Russia created a military allegiance with Cuba, with the goal of "protecting it from the US", you would explode Havana into a billion pieces before I could smoke a full Cohiba. The West provoked this war in every possible way. They left Putin no other option.

Just because that's what Russian propaganda is saying, doesn't mean that it's true.

[Guest Tobia]

@Blackhawk

9 hours ago, Blackhawk said:

Just because that's what Russian propaganda is saying, doesn't mean that it's true.

Is it russian propaganda to say that Cuba has no right to form alliances with Russia and China?

Can Mexico allow Russian bases on its territory?

Legally under international law they totally have the right to do so.

 but guess what? It is never going to happen.

Same with Ukraine, it will never be part of nato (nor the eu at this point).

Russia would never allow it, no matter the cost. Even if their last resort was to completely and totally destroy Ukraine, they would be willing to do that.

For 20 years they stated clearly, it is an existential threat to the russian state. And for good reason.

No matter what you call "propaganda", this is how things work. You don't violate people's red lines and then cry about democracy (which never existed in the first place in Ukraine)