Defense of Leo's harsh style & why you should Love him, not expect him to be loving

[Thought Art]

1 hour ago, Gesundheit2 said:

You need not to defend him. I love Leo and accept him either way. He could speak in the most aggressive tone in the world, and I personally would still not have a problem with that.

And while I'm sure there are lessons for all of us to learn from this thread and from Leo's style, let's consider this thread:

And these comments:

And especially this one:

He needs our help to keep him accountable. He actually asked for it.

It is actually in everyone's best interest to send a good image of Leo to the world. And the better the image, the better it is for everyone, including and especially him.

This is not to say he has to become fake and inauthentic. There are several ways to express the same meaning. There are harsh ways and soft ways, and various other ways. It is possible to work on the delivery and enhance it so that it is both effective and respectful. If you want to have a great impact, you can. Just set your intention to it, and improve along the way. I think Leo needs to examine his attachments and biases and then he can improve based on that. He needs to take an honest, careful, and unbiased look at what triggers him and what motivates him. I've improved a ton. At least, I think I have. I don't see any reason why anyone else can't.

This is true. I’d like to see a comment on his recent outbursts actually. 
 

I feel ambiguous about the comments when he has been angry with the trolls. But, I also think he has dealt really well. I know I’d be upset if people constantly accused me of being a cult leader, of encouraging suicide of my followers, and all the other things people throw at him. I know that it’s not mentally healthy long term to just act like you aren’t upset or pissed with people, when you actually are. It could be the healthiest thing for him to actually be authentic in those moments. 
 

I think he is just going to be himself, authentic etc. 
 

Sometimes you just got to tell assholes they need to fuck off. Being a spiritual teacher or life coach doesn’t mean you need to be a doormat, or let people walk over you all the time. I’ve only ever had respectful interactions with Leo, but I also don’t actively troll, gaslight, and accuse him of nasty things. I may not agree with him… but just like in your day to day life… if someone was constantly harassing you…. You’d probably tell them to fuck off. Also, a lot of you guys have that exact double standard.

 

You’ve never seen other spiritual leaders in a room full of people accusing him of nasty shit, telling him to stop making his work and teachings, telling him he is evil, deluded, wrong, Acting with ill intent, etc… imagine any other person not even spiritual teacher having that happen over and over and over again… he is a human and will get fucking upset. 

 

There was a guy here a couple weeks back, going on and on about Leo’s “recent out bursts”… who then had a far worse outburst speaking to me in a private message… so, you know we need to be able to hold ourselves to a higher standard as well if we want Leo to do so. 
 

I will continue to let myself observe. I don’t really think it’s a big deal. 

Edited March 18, 2023 by Thought Art

[Gesundheit2]

@Thought Art Yeah, I think it's hard and there's generally a limit to what a person can take. Especially considering that there are people that have history with you who are constantly talking shit about you even after everything you've done for them out of love, and you can't even respond to them directly because you know you shouldn't. It sucks. Indeed, it is a very frustrating experience to see much of your efforts go in vain, especially the more you actually care about the work and the people. It must be pretty heavy and demoralizing. I honestly feel amazed that Leo is still doing his thing despite all that. It is inspiring to see that this is humanely possible.

But on the other hand, I think Leo is capable of pulling through and even turning things around. He has shown a lot of strength over the years, and he is God after all.

It will pass.

Edited March 18, 2023 by Gesundheit2

[Thought Art]

@Gesundheit2 We are God. Reality is God. Assholes are God.

Edited March 18, 2023 by Thought Art

[axiom]

17 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

I don’t really think it’s a big deal. 

Yes, nothing here is a big deal. If people think it’s a big deal then they should probably develop a few other interests and get their lives in order.

Spiritual seeking truly is the most pointless endeavour. At some point it can be seen it for what it is : just activity of mind. In the meantime it amplifies neuroses.

Leo is a very entertaining character with grandiose notions of Godhood. It happens. Whatever he may lack, he more than makes up for with his cartoon-villain appearance and persona.

[Thought Art]

@axiom Awakening and spirituality is not just activity of mind, as to be some arbitrary thing. It’s pretty important I think to develop a deep understanding of reality and God. Sort of, the biggest deal. 
 

What’s not a big deal is petty human shit. 

[Breakingthewall]

4 minutes ago, axiom said:

Yes, nothing here is a big deal. If people think it’s a big deal then they should probably develop a few other interests and get their lives in order.

Spiritual seeking truly is the most pointless endeavour. At some point it can be seen it for what it is : just activity of mind. In the meantime it amplifies neuroses.

Leo is a very entertaining character with grandiose notions of Godhood. It happens. Whatever he may lack, he more than makes up for with his cartoon-villain appearance and persona.

You do not get it! and hardly anyone understands it. Leo is here exposing the reality, and nobody understands him, and some also see him as a kind of miserable little egomaniac whose sole objective is to magnify his little ego as a teenage loser. It must be absolutely unnerving. the patience required is monumental. He should install a punching bag in his house and hit it two hours a day, to release that tension.

 

[axiom]

Just now, Thought Art said:

@axiom Awakening and spirituality is not just activity of mind, as to be some arbitrary thing. It’s pretty important I think to develop a deep understanding of reality and God. Sort of, the biggest deal. 
 

What’s not a big deal is petty human shit. 

Yes it is just activity of mind. Take a look around the forum. 

Don’t you think all this supposed awakening and spirituality looks and smells like petty human shit?

For most who open the door to spirituality, it ultimately mutates into strongly-held identity. In the end it is just another attachment. It is not important to be spiritual. 

All of this can be transcended. 

Honestly, look at the petty human BS here and see it for what it is. The lesson is staring you in the face. 

[Thought Art]

@axiom forum isn’t awakening 

[axiom]

2 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

@axiom forum isn’t awakening 

I promise you, there is no awakening.

There is getting wrapped up in activity of mind or not getting wrapped up in activity of mind. 

[Sincerity]

@Gesundheit2 Great points!

[Razard86]

35 minutes ago, axiom said:

I promise you, there is no awakening.

There is getting wrapped up in activity of mind or not getting wrapped up in activity of mind. 

Not getting wrapped up in activity of mind....is an activity of the mind because you used the mind to make that decision. There is only mind, and that mind is either playing a game of avoidance/observation, or engagement. 

1. Also complaining about criticism is just criticizing criticism which just makes you just as guilty.

2. Everyone here is at different stages of development and they can only express themselves at the level they are at.

3. The whole point of consciousness/love is to literally experience...every possibility, so.....failure literally doesn't exist.

Any preference for something as superior or better, is just an egoic projection, nothing wrong with that because egoic projections are fun but they are just a circular, up and down trip. Literally that's all they are, an up and down trip that goes full circle for all of infinity. At a certain point in the words of Allan Watts you ask the question "Haven't we been here before?"

Here is an exercise in hilariousness, go cycle through the various posts of the people on this forum...do it enough and you will realize....it is just ONE BEING, ONE MIND, ONE BIG ECHO CHAMBER, having and inner conversation WITH ITSELF!!! It's rather hilarious if you actually do it. You can literally awaken this way if you want, so right now....you have ONE MIND claiming it needs to be nicer to itself. Very hilarious indeed.

But to ground this message away from this talk since for some reason....people on the spirituality forum...don't like this sometimes, Leo is a big boy. Your words on a screen are not going to bother or effect him in a meaningful enough way to divert him from his goals. Part of his charm is his relentlessness, it's why his name is fitting, Leo is a name of royalty often associated with being a Lion the king of the jungle. The King of the Jungle isn't worried about the chirpings of the animals there, it has bigger things to worry about.

This isn't to discount his personal issues, or even to dehumanize him, he isn't invulnerable, let's just say....people like him have a sadistic side to them. Competitive people....actually enjoy a little pain, a little torture. Leo is very competitive, so understand, the only thing he would dislike, is something that is too easy all the time. If you pay attention you will notice he literally seeks adversity, he literally spends his time studying and listening to people he disagrees with. So you really think your petty insults and disagreements bother him when he listens to people like Newt Gingrich to understand the ignorant conservative mind?

Do you know how hard it is to listen to someone you vehemently disagree with? It's like listening to someone scratch chalk on autorepeat. Leo may have his imperfections just like anyone....but his heart is in the right direction and the man is a warrior.

[axiom]

12 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

go cycle through the various posts of the people on this forum...do it enough and you will realize....it is just ONE BEING, ONE MIND, ONE BIG ECHO CHAMBER, having and inner conversation WITH ITSELF!!! It's rather hilarious if you actually do it.

Yes, good observation.

“getting caught up in activity of mind” (or not) is not a decision one makes.

- Notice that I am not complaining about anything here

- “the whole point of consciousness…” There is no point to consciousness.

As far as Leo being this way or that way… such things don’t concern me.

[Carl-Richard]

Just remember that it's indeed harsh behavior and that you don't need to be ok with it.

Edited March 18, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[zurew]

Its interesting that on one hand, you defenders look at him as God (so he can do whatever the fuck he wants and he is absolved from any ethical standard) and on the other hand, when he clearly loses his temper and acting in an egoic and impulsive manner, then he suddenly lose his god status and he become a little human who was hurt by trolls on his forum or in other words by just petty human shit (and by that narrative you try to justify his actions by stating, that he is just a normal little human just as anyone else).

Don't just randomly change and pick and choose what standards you apply to Leo based on what kind of argument you want to make or defend. You either choose a God standard where he is all powerful and he never lose his temper ever or never  get triggered by anything because he is that much in control of himself and everything , and every action of his is 100% conscious; or you acknowledge that he is a human just as everyone else, but by that you have to accept all the negative and hard baggage that comes with a human standard (you can't do whatever the fuck you want to do anymore, and you are not absolved from ethics and now you need to be conscious how you act and what decisions you make) and we are not talking about a basic human standard that is applicapble to everyone, but more about a teacher and more specifically a spiritual teacher standard.

If you choose the "God standard" for him, then you can't use the "he lost his temper, because he is just human" excuse  anymore, and if you still genuinly believe and give a "God standard" to him where is absolved from ethics, then I would say that you are delusional, and you shouldn't give anyone that much power over yourself.

If you believe in the "don't be so soft" narrative, then you should use the same standard on Leo as well. Why is he get triggered by some trolls on this forum, why can't he handle it? Is he so soft that he gets hurt by criticism or by just words on the screen? Any argument that you make to create the "you guys are just soft and this is just a forum" all of those could be applied to Leo as well, so be careful what logic you guys want to use here.

About the arguments of "but he did so many great things and we shouldn't criticise him , because he gave a lot for free and his work is so valuable" you are essentially saying that he can do whatever negative things he wants and you will endure it, without saying a word about it, because he contributes some positive things to your life - in other words, you are essentially justifying almost every abusive relationship. The conversation about this particular issue should be more about where do you draw the line, or is there any line for you? Becuase if there isn't any line, then thats concerning and you are basically just a blind follower, who doesn't have a healthy self-esteem.

Also I still haven't seen any coherent argument that would have actually justified why it is necessary to act the way Leo did. All of attempts to make that  argument were just coping and even the attempts Leo made were really hard coping and couldn't construct any coherent argument why it is necessary for him to act the way he did. The fact of the matter is that acting that way is not necessary but just an option, but if its just an option, then drop all the cope and just say that you like that style of teaching and don't cope with it being necessary or with other excuses like that and just own that you want to be an asshole without a particular necessity for it or actually ancknowledge that you were wrong in those instances, and don't try to defend and rationalise them afterwards.

I could easily make arguments why it is not necessary to act that way, and not just that, but given what kind of audience he attracts and has - it is often times counterproductive to teach that way.

Edited March 18, 2023 by zurew

[Jowblob]

 

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

You're defending him because you know he made a mistake.

 

@Carl-RichardOr perhaps he feels sorry for the guy? I see these threads being created all the time about Leo, criticizing him for his style. I see some people are so unconscious in their behavior that when they saw a picture of leo in his robes they instantly started judging and say things like, i hope he's okey i don't want him to be mentally ill, even though the picture was unusual they still had to post these comments not thinking how he would feel about it. These comments had some form of empathy in them but it all got lost when they used passive aggresive words like mentally ill while trying to empathise with him, not thinking about their own behaviour and Leo's feelings. And this is how most people are on this forum, i called this out and you gave me a warning for it so clearly you didn't understand it too. Yes i noticed he can be egotistical and straight forward while giving his teachings to other people, but that's for the better. The people that have problems with him are the people that don't understand reality well and are projecting their unconsciousness into Leo. If you would understand consciousness or God or yourself you would find many valid reasons for his behavior at that point, judging him while you're just being on the internet posting on his forum says a lot about the person judging.

 

Edited March 18, 2023 by Jowblob

[Inliytened1]

43 minutes ago, zurew said:

Its interesting that on one hand, you defenders look at him as God (so he can do whatever the fuck he wants and he is absolved from any ethical standard) and on the other hand, when he clearly loses his temper and acting in an egoic and impulsive manner, then he suddenly lose his god status and he become a little human who was hurt by trolls on his forum or in other words by just petty human shit (and by that narrative you try to justify his actions by stating, that he is just a normal little human just as anyone else).

Don't just randomly change and pick and choose what standards you apply to Leo based on what kind of argument you want to make or defend. You either choose a God standard where he is all powerful and he never lose his temper ever or never  get triggered by anything because he is that much in control of himself and everything , and every action of his is 100% conscious; or you acknowledge that he is a human just as everyone else, but by that you have to accept all the negative and hard baggage that comes with a human standard (you can't do whatever the fuck you want to do anymore, and you are not absolved from ethics and now you need to be conscious how you act and what decisions you make) and we are not talking about a basic human standard that is applicapble to everyone, but more about a teacher and more specifically a spiritual teacher standard.

If you choose the "God standard" for him, then you can't use the "he lost his temper, because he is just human" excuse  anymore, and if you still genuinly believe and give a "God standard" to him where is absolved from ethics, then I would say that you are delusional, and you shouldn't give anyone that much power over yourself.

If you believe in the "don't be so soft" narrative, then you should use the same standard on Leo as well. Why is he get triggered by some trolls on this forum, why can't he handle it? Is he so soft that he gets hurt by criticism or by just words on the screen? Any argument that you make to create the "you guys are just soft and this is just a forum" all of those could be applied to Leo as well, so be careful what logic you guys want to use here.

About the arguments of "but he did so many great things and we shouldn't criticise him , because he gave a lot for free and his work is so valuable" you are essentially saying that he can do whatever negative things he wants and you will endure it, without saying a word about it, because he contributes some positive things to your life - in other words, you are essentially justifying almost every abusive relationship. The conversation about this particular issue should be more about where do you draw the line, or is there any line for you? Becuase if there isn't any line, then thats concerning and you are basically just a blind follower, who doesn't have a healthy self-esteem.

Also I still haven't seen any coherent argument that would have actually justified why it is necessary to act the way Leo did. All of attempts to make that  argument were just coping and even the attempts Leo made were really hard coping and couldn't construct any coherent argument why it is necessary for him to act the way he did. The fact of the matter is that acting that way is not necessary but just an option, but if its just an option, then drop all the cope and just say that you like that style of teaching and don't cope with it being necessary or with other excuses like that and just own that you want to be an asshole without a particular necessity for it or actually ancknowledge that you were wrong in those instances, and don't try to defend and rationalise them afterwards.

I could easily make arguments why it is not necessary to act that way, and not just that, but given what kind of audience he attracts and has - it is often times counterproductive to teach that way.

The fact of the matter it is the criticism is an unnecessary distraction.   We have allowed it to fester here for years.  But that time is done.  If I see someone here saying the teachings here are delusional I will ban them.  I'm done playing the nice guy.  If you want to be here, be here to learn.   Be open minded and humble to the fact that perhaps you aren't yet awake and that perhaps what is being brought to you here can awaken you.  If not, then get lost.  It's really quite simple. 

Edited March 18, 2023 by Inliytened1

[StarStruck]

55 minutes ago, zurew said:

Its interesting that on one hand, you defenders look at him as God (so he can do whatever the fuck he wants and he is absolved from any ethical standard) and on the other hand, when he clearly loses his temper and acting in an egoic and impulsive manner, then he suddenly lose his god status and he become a little human who was hurt by trolls on his forum or in other words by just petty human shit (and by that narrative you try to justify his actions by stating, that he is just a normal little human just as anyone else).

Don't just randomly change and pick and choose what standards you apply to Leo based on what kind of argument you want to make or defend. You either choose a God standard where he is all powerful and he never lose his temper ever or never  get triggered by anything because he is that much in control of himself and everything , and every action of his is 100% conscious; or you acknowledge that he is a human just as everyone else, but by that you have to accept all the negative and hard baggage that comes with a human standard (you can't do whatever the fuck you want to do anymore, and you are not absolved from ethics and now you need to be conscious how you act and what decisions you make) and we are not talking about a basic human standard that is applicapble to everyone, but more about a teacher and more specifically a spiritual teacher standard.

If you choose the "God standard" for him, then you can't use the "he lost his temper, because he is just human" excuse  anymore, and if you still genuinly believe and give a "God standard" to him where is absolved from ethics, then I would say that you are delusional, and you shouldn't give anyone that much power over yourself.

If you believe in the "don't be so soft" narrative, then you should use the same standard on Leo as well. Why is he get triggered by some trolls on this forum, why can't he handle it? Is he so soft that he gets hurt by criticism or by just words on the screen? Any argument that you make to create the "you guys are just soft and this is just a forum" all of those could be applied to Leo as well, so be careful what logic you guys want to use here.

About the arguments of "but he did so many great things and we shouldn't criticise him , because he gave a lot for free and his work is so valuable" you are essentially saying that he can do whatever negative things he wants and you will endure it, without saying a word about it, because he contributes some positive things to your life - in other words, you are essentially justifying almost every abusive relationship. The conversation about this particular issue should be more about where do you draw the line, or is there any line for you? Becuase if there isn't any line, then thats concerning and you are basically just a blind follower, who doesn't have a healthy self-esteem.

Also I still haven't seen any coherent argument that would have actually justified why it is necessary to act the way Leo did. All of attempts to make that  argument were just coping and even the attempts Leo made were really hard coping and couldn't construct any coherent argument why it is necessary for him to act the way he did. The fact of the matter is that acting that way is not necessary but just an option, but if its just an option, then drop all the cope and just say that you like that style of teaching and don't cope with it being necessary or with other excuses like that and just own that you want to be an asshole without a particular necessity for it or actually ancknowledge that you were wrong in those instances, and don't try to defend and rationalise them afterwards.

I could easily make arguments why it is not necessary to act that way, and not just that, but given what kind of audience he attracts and has - it is often times counterproductive to teach that way.

So true. There is a huge collective spiritual ego shadow that it is not even funny. 

[zurew]

56 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

The fact of the matter it is the criticism is an unnecessary distraction.   We have allowed it to fester here for years.  But that time is done.  If I see someone here saying the teachings here are delusional I will ban them.  I'm done playing the nice guy.  If you want to be here, be here to learn.   Be open minded and humble to the fact that perhaps you aren't yet awake and that perhaps what is being brought to you here can awaken you.  If not, then get lost.  It's really quite simple. 

Thats the best formula to make this place a cult (ignore and not just that but ban everyone who has even a slight disagreement about Leo or about his teachings). It seems that you really quickly changed your position on this, because in the other thread you were making some criticisms yourself. 

Its pathetic to say that this forum is about self development and about growth when criticisms can't be made or are not even considered and handwaved away with spiritual excuses and other bullshit.

Also notice that most of the criticisms here are not even about his teachings but about his methods, and about how he delivers those teachings and not just about that, because most of the comments that we have issue with aren't even teachings but random unhinged emotional comments targeted at members (that some of you consider as teachings, and that is obviously bullshit, because those cases he is just  being in a triggered state - calling someone a rat and stuff like that) .

Edited March 18, 2023 by zurew

[Devin]

6 minutes ago, zurew said:

Thats the best formula to make this place a cult (ignore and not just that but ban everyone who has even a slight disagreement about Leo or about his teachings). It seems that you really quickly changed your position on this, because in the other thread you were making some criticisms yourself. 

Its pathetic to say that this forum is about self development and about growth when criticisms can't be made or are not even considered and handwaved away with spiritual excuses and other bullshit.

Leo explicitly stated to point out how his teachings are wrong, that doesn't require personal attacks.

PM him if you're concerned about his narcissism, .... .

Edited March 18, 2023 by Devin

[Sincerity]

1 hour ago, zurew said:

Its interesting that on one hand, you defenders look at him as God (so he can do whatever the fuck he wants and he is absolved from any ethical standard) and on the other hand, when he clearly loses his temper and acting in an egoic and impulsive manner, then he suddenly lose his god status and he become a little human who was hurt by trolls on his forum or in other words by just petty human shit (and by that narrative you try to justify his actions by stating, that he is just a normal little human just as anyone else).

Don't just randomly change and pick and choose what standards you apply to Leo based on what kind of argument you want to make or defend. You either choose a God standard where he is all powerful and he never lose his temper ever or never  get triggered by anything because he is that much in control of himself and everything , and every action of his is 100% conscious; or you acknowledge that he is a human just as everyone else, but by that you have to accept all the negative and hard baggage that comes with a human standard (you can't do whatever the fuck you want to do anymore, and you are not absolved from ethics and now you need to be conscious how you act and what decisions you make) and we are not talking about a basic human standard that is applicapble to everyone, but more about a teacher and more specifically a spiritual teacher standard.

If you choose the "God standard" for him, then you can't use the "he lost his temper, because he is just human" excuse  anymore, and if you still genuinly believe and give a "God standard" to him where is absolved from ethics, then I would say that you are delusional, and you shouldn't give anyone that much power over yourself.

Who the hell looks up to him as "all-powerful God" who doesn't do anything wrong? It isn't common at all here. If You don't see him as a human You are deluded, I suggest. (Unless You see EVERYTHING as God, then that's fine and congrats)

It seems to me You utterly misunderstand what it means to be God. It does not necessitate never losing your temper or even not being a dick sometimes. YOU ARE GOD and yet You make blunders in life. Because the Dream is of being limited.

To me personally he is human first and foremost. Sure, an above-average human, certainly. A radical human teacher of spirituality. But still human.

Don't give away your authority and pledge no allegience to ANY human teacher. Pledge allegience to GOD. Listen to your intuition primarily. But also consider the teachings, because if You're experiencing them maybe there's some reason for that. Don't be so foolish to think You know better. Humility is of great importance.

Edited March 18, 2023 by Sincerity