Solipsism

[vibv]

3 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

this is rationalizing and if you start that process you go crazy. if god is eternal, he has already experienced hitler infinite times, then why does he continue to experience it?. I do not believe that even you, oh sage, can understand infinity

You can understand infinity, but you can never communicate it. And even if you could it would always be deeply misunderstood. That's the beauty of language: You can describe so so much, but you can't really convey Truth. If you could, everyone would be awake since the dawn of time.

Hitler is your own past (but everything is happening at the same time, too). It is real but you're not aware of it right now.

There's only love and beauty. Even in the deepest suffering and unconsciousness. That's why there's no reason to eradicate something like the Hitler-Experience out of all-there-is. Even that is deeply loved and accepted by Infinity.

[iboughtleosbooklist]

2 minutes ago, vibv said:

You can understand infinity, but you can never communicate it. And even if you could it would always be deeply misunderstood. That's the beauty of language: You can describe so so much, but you can't really convey Truth. If you could, everyone would be awake since the dawn of time.

What a cop-out ?

2 minutes ago, vibv said:

Hitler is your own past (but everything is happening at the same time, too). It is real but you're not aware of it right now.

There's only love and beauty. Even in the deepest suffering and unconsciousness. That's why there's no reason to eradicate something like the Hitler-Experience out of all-there-is. Even that is deeply loved and accepted by Infinity.

Again "trust me bro, you lived hitler". Sorry but I go by direct experience of my own life. That's "direct knowing" to me.

[billiesimon]

43 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's not mindless at all. God's whole game is exploring all possible perspectives in order to reach infinite self-understanding.

But, isn't God already omniscient? How can God create an intelligent dream and even put breadcrumbs to wake up inside that dream if it was not already omniscient about all possibilities? To me it seems paradoxical. 

God seems to already know that it's a dream. I was completely deeply ignorant about God years ago, yet God already knew what was going on, and was leaving hints for me along the way. 

It's impossible that God doesn't know what's happening already. Even if I remained unconscious and died and then slipped into another dream life, it already knows everything about that life, since IT is the one who's planning it! 

I don't understand this. 

[Leo Gura]

23 minutes ago, iboughtleosbooklist said:

Yes it is. Is there a particular order in which this process happens?

I don't know about an order.

23 minutes ago, iboughtleosbooklist said:

Again how do you know this? Do you just like the idea of this? Did God show you? Why should you believe what God shows you? Couldn't it just be another part of the maze?

That's part of Awakening.

23 minutes ago, iboughtleosbooklist said:

Why is that a worthy/meaningful goal? Especially given that I've forgotten 99.99% of my life experiences (how extremely lacking in "omniscience").

The only worthwhile goal for God is self-understanding and Omniscience. Because that's how God becomes God.

[Leo Gura]

13 minutes ago, billiesimon said:

But, isn't God already omniscient? How can God create an intelligent dream and even put breadcrumbs to wake up inside that dream if it was not already omniscient about all possibilities?

But how did God get Omniscient? You gotta wonder. How did God become so Intelligent?

What you will realize is that it did it by literally becoming Conscious of every possible thing. The more perspectives you become conscious of, the more your intelligence increases and the closer you get to Omniscience and Godhood. Omniscience literally boils down to: experiencing everything. If you experience everything you know everything. You become All-Seeing.

The logic of it is quite straight-forward.

But, hey, don't take my word for it. Discover whatever is true for yourself. I'm just sharing what I discovered.

God's whole game is exploring endless perspectives. Because there's literally nothing else to do. The reason God is looking through your eyes is to collect raw experience to fuel its Omniscience. God could not be Omniscient without exploring your human perspective. Just ask yourself, "How would God know what sex is unless God incarnated as a human and had a bunch of sex?"

This is also crucial for the development of Love. How can God be All-Loving unless God lived in everyone's shoes?! The way you integrate Hitler into your Love is by becoming him! It cannot be done theoretically. God has to incarnate as Hitler. That is God's grand game: to become All-Knowing and All-Loving by exploring every corner of itself.

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To me it seems paradoxical.

That's how it should seem.

Edited March 17, 2023 by Leo Gura

[iboughtleosbooklist]

God existed forever and is already omniscient. Let's leave hitler in the past. Now all that's left to do is get comfy and enjoy infinity ?

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, iboughtleosbooklist said:

God existed forever and is already omniscient.

God is self-creation. God had to create its own Omniscience. And I told you how it did it.

I should stop casting pearls before swine.

Edited March 17, 2023 by Leo Gura

[iboughtleosbooklist]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

God is self-creation. God had to create its own Omniscience. And I told you how it did it.

I believe it created it's own omniscience in a blink of an eye. Cheers to that!

[Leo Gura]

Just now, iboughtleosbooklist said:

I believe it created it's own omniscience in a blink of an eye.

In the blink of Hitler's eye

[vibv]

Out of this (our) perspective, God is in the process of Becoming.

From its point of view it's eternal and motionless.

One interpretation would be: God always and eternally knows what it is. But to experientially explore itself, it had to create time, space & causality.

[iboughtleosbooklist]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

In the blink of Hitler's eye

Ta-da! ?

3 minutes ago, vibv said:

Out of this (our) perspective, God is in the process of Becoming.

From its point of view it's eternal and motionless.

One interpretation would be: God always and eternally knows what it is. But to experientially explore itself, it had to create time, space & causality.

It's a nice story, but I'm still not sold.

[Leo Gura]

@vibv It can explore itself even without time and space. But of course time and space are some of the things it wants to explore. So it will do both. I have explored myself beyond time and space and also within time and space.

Edited March 17, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Breakingthewall]

10 minutes ago, vibv said:

Out of this (our) perspective, God is in the process of Becoming.

From its point of view it's eternal and motionless.

One interpretation would be: God always and eternally knows what it is. But to experientially explore itself, it had to create time, space & causality.

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

 

Good interpretations. Deeper than most that are explained here. Do you really realize and become the absolute or do you speak by mental deduction? If the answer is the first, how? what process happened?

[vibv]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

Do you really realize and become the absolute or do you speak by mental deduction? If the answer is the first, how? what process happened?

You of course ARE the absolute. You just kind of "remember". There are states of consciousness in which it's beyond any doubt clear as day.

But later you have to interpret the experience as well to communicate it.

[Breakingthewall]

3 minutes ago, vibv said:

You of course ARE the absolute. You just kind of "remember". There are states of consciousness in which it's beyond any doubt clear as day.

But later you have to interpret the experience as well to communicate it.

the reality is that communication is completely unnecessary, you are talking to yourself, and the fact of "talking" is just a movement, a distraction that normally ties you to the relative. but we try that this communication is liberating, that it is oriented to get out of the illusion. What I asked you is: how did you become infinite? psychedelics? has it been complete? Or are you speaking from logic?

[MisterNobody]

@iboughtleosbooklist  you're right, God doesnt have to experience life from all people's perspectives to reach omniscience. He doesnt have to learn anything. He doesnt have to be anything. Your life has no meaning, no goal. You dont have to reach anything. You just have to be, you just have to go through the motions. At the end of your life pain and pleasure will be in perfect equilibrium. You can give meaning to anything you achieve but God doesnt care about any of those human opinions of your. Here's what true solipsism means:

 

I am the only one having a human experience (feeling, seeing, hearing). Others are simply empty vessels, I (as consciousness) am not inside of them, never have been, never will be. I will never have a human experience from their point of view. I will never live life from their perspective. They are pre-programmed to behave the way I decided when I was designing this whole game called life. They are designed to behave like consciousnesses. I designed it to the smallest detail, it's all predetermined. When I die, the whole universe with all the people in it also die. Nobody is going to be able to see my dead body. Then I can create a completely different universe (with different physics rules, dimensions, etc), like radically different, and then proceed to have only one avatar experience there as well, then destroy it.

AND NOT THIS: I (consciousness) also inhabit other people. Others are alive. There's life inside of them. They are feeling, seeing, hearing, and I will have that experience (from their point of view) eventually. Or I already had that in the past (notion of time is tricky here). Or simultaneously but I am only aware of my avatar's conscious experience. So when my current avatar dies, I will be able to see the dead body from other avatar's perspectives (me being the consciousness that inhabits them). Life goes on, the universe doesn't die with me. I will experience every single lifetime of every single being in this universe. It really doesn't matter if it happens simultaneously or one after another. 

[Sincerity]

@Leo Gura My awakenings so far have shown me there is no God besides me. So no omniscience if I am not omniscient.

Do You find that there is "God who's more awake than You"? Doesn't that imply an "other"? When I say You I mean God.

Also I don't understand why You say God had to "create his omniscience" and "become intelligent". Doesn't that imply time? And again, doesn't that imply an other God?

My current understanding is that this is a Fantasy/Dream and there's no "before" and "after" experiences... Or at least there's zero connection between them. Memory doesn't get transported because that would imply time and it's only THIS. Infinite Intelligence just IS and it has always been. The Fantasy of course is that Intelligence.

So the crux is that You say memory/intelligence/omniscience is built across lives. And I'm doubting that. If You could clarify, I'd be grateful.

Edited March 17, 2023 by Sincerity

[Leo Gura]

30 minutes ago, Sincerity said:

@Leo Gura My awakenings so far have shown me there is no God besides me. So no omniscience if I am not omniscient.

I'm not contradicting that per se. But you can be Omniscient and you can also not be. So clearly you know God can flip between those two.

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Do You find that there is "God who's more awake than You"? Doesn't that imply an "other"? When I say You I mean God.

There's not some other God, it's just that sometimes I am very conscious and other times I am not. God dreams and awakens in cycles.

Quote

Also I don't understand why You say God had to "create his omniscience" and "become intelligent". Doesn't that imply time? And again, doesn't that imply an other God?

So the crux is that You say memory/intelligence/omniscience is built across lives. And I'm doubting that. If You could clarify, I'd be grateful.

It doesn't imply time but it implies a line of changing activity within Consciousness. Consciousness is always changing. Change and time are not the same thing. Change is more fundamental than time.

I suggest you contemplate how God became Omniscient and Intelligent. What actually creates Intelligence? Start by examining what increases your intelligence in your own life. You could also contemplate what role taking on new perspectives plays in intelligence and love. Why is it that you become more loving, more compassionate, more intelligent if you open your mind to explore many diverse perspectives? And why are people who only know one perspective so hateful and unintelligent?

Edited March 17, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Sincerity]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I'm not contradicting that per se. But you can be Omniscient and you can also not be. So clearly you know God can flip between those two.

Ok, right.

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

There's not some other God, it's just that sometimes I am very conscious and other times I am not. God dreams and awakens in cycles.

Ok. I guess that's the case.

Idk, I'm really trying to tiptoe around time and not get lost in concepts... On the one hand I get that it happens in cycles but on the other hand there's nothing but NOW and a cycle implies events in the future... I'm trying to stay grounded in current experience and I feel like it's frying my mind.

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It doesn't imply time but it implies a line of changing activity within Consciousness. Consciousness is always changing. Again, change and time are not the same thing. Change is more fundamental than time.

I suggest you contemplate how God became Omniscience and Intelligent. What actually creates Intelligence? Start by examining what increases your intelligence in your own life.

Well. I don't understand the relationship between change and time. I don't know yet if change is more fundamental. To me it feels synonymous to time.

This "what actually creates intelligence?" questions feels very intriquing, I'll definitely contemplate that.

Thanks for responding.

[vibv]

43 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

the reality is that communication is completely unnecessary, you are talking to yourself, and the fact of "talking" is just a movement, a distraction that normally ties you to the relative. but we try that this communication is liberating, that it is oriented to get out of the illusion. What I asked you is: how did you become infinite? psychedelics? has it been complete? Or are you speaking from logic?

Talking is fun. I love communicating those ideas, it's also a deep desire to do so - even if it doesn't matter at all. When I'm conscious of that it's even more fun, because I'm not dependent on the outcome 

I had multiple experiences of what I'm talking about - with and without psychedelics - and I continue to have them regularly. Those are the best moments of my life.
And it's always from different perspectives and focussing on different aspects of it. Never have two experiences been exactly the same.

And I'm excited to know that I didn't nearly reach the deepest depths of it.

Edited March 17, 2023 by vibv