Solipsism

[Someone here]

@Inliytened1 if God is infinite..why can't we have multiple layers of reality ? And why can't we both be conscious simultaneously?  If that's an impossibility to you,then aren't you limiting god that way?  You are basically erasing the omnipotent feature from God by claiming that God can't have multiple experiences happening simultaneously. 

[spiritual memes]

Solipsism never really made sense to me. At least in the way Leo communicates it. If solipsism is true, then Leo's awakening experiences aren't real since they aren't in my direct experience. Therefore Leo isn't really awake because he's just an npc I'm imagining and his inner life doesn't exist. Anyone that tells you that solipsism is true can't be trusted, because even if they are right, they are just npc's and have never actually awoken to solipsism. You can't be awake or even conscious at all if you're just a hollow npc that I'm imagining.

[Inliytened1]

1 minute ago, Someone here said:

@Inliytened1 if God is infinite..why can't we have multiple layers of reality ? And why can't we both be conscious simultaneously?  If that's an impossibility to you,then aren't you limiting god that way?  You are basically erasing the omnipotent feature from God by claiming that God can't have multiple experiences happening simultaneously. 

because its not necessary, all that is necessary is the appearance of it.  If you were infinitely intelligent, you would do things the most efficient way possible.  And this is the most intelligent design.  It is pure genius, really.

Edited March 16, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

ok, admitting it, then, if your direct experience right now is limited, where do you hide everything that is missing to make it unlimited and omniscient?

That framing doesn't really apply. There is not a "where" that things are hidden. It's more like you have a TV screen and it can show various images. But when an image isn't shown, it doesn't exist anywhere else.

God is a mind that imagines everything around itself in all directions. That's just what reality is: A sovereign mind imagining in 360. You have to drop the idea of an external world where objects or creatures exist by themselves. There simply isn't such a thing. There is only the NOW, but it morphs around.

Edited March 16, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Someone here]

15 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

because its not necessary, all that is necessary is the appearance of it.  If you were infinitely intelligent, you would do things the most efficient way possible.  And this is the most intelligent design.  It is pure genius, really.

Again..if God is infinite..he will try the "unnecessary "route as well .

I agree we don't need stuff behind the scenes to explain the first order layer of qualia/consciousness. And that our direct experience is first order .but still ..if God wants..he definitely can imagine a big  bang ..Space ..time ..atoms ..fucking math equations and all that to underpin the first order consciousness.  If you say God can't do do this then you are basically saying God is not omnipotent. That's my point .unfortunately you did not address it in your reply .

[Inliytened1]

13 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Again..if God is infinite..he will try the "unnecessary "route as well .

I agree we don't need stuff behind the scenes to explain the first order layer of qualia/consciousness. And that our direct experience is first order .but still ..if God wants..he definitely can imagine a big  bang ..Space ..time ..atoms ..fucking math equations and all that to underpin the first order consciousness.  If you say God can't do do this then you are basically saying God is not omnipotent. That's my point .unfortunately you did not address it in your reply .

well because it is one, it cannot ACTUALLY separate itself from itself, it can only create the illusion.  But this paradox is a feature of Infinity, not a bug. Because illusion and reality are ONE, and so, in that sense, it DOES.   Which is a mind fuck, but resolves the paradox.

Edited March 16, 2023 by Inliytened1

[spiritual memes]

lol at all these npc's talking about solipsism like they're actually real... 

[Someone here]

7 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

well because it is one, it cannot ACTUALLY separate itself from itself, it can only create the ilusion.  But this paradox is a feature of Infinity, not a bug. Because illusion and reality are ONE, and so, in that sense, it DOES.   Which is a mind fuck, but resolves the paradox.

I don't understand.  If you are saying that illusion =reality...then there is no difference at all between "ACTUALLY " and "NOT ACTUALLY "..and so there is an apparent boundary between each object in the universe .and there is at first glance a space or a distance between any two distinct objects . So if you hold an egg on one hand and you hold an apple on the other hand ..these two objects are different, right ? So the apparent boundary between my physical body and your physical body is ACTUALLY there as long as we are hypnotised by the illusion of separation. Which I think god have created for a reason . After all you are typing on a computer right now to what seems to be an "other " on  the other side of the globe .why are you doing this if I'm not actually real from your POV ? Do you realize that you are literally just talking to yourself? Or do you adopt it as a belief system or a cool philosophical idea ?

I'm not trying to be  smart arse here or split hairs .I'm coming from genuine curiosity and desire to understand .because this whole solipsism stuff is raping my mind on a daily basis ? 

[Inliytened1]

6 minutes ago, Someone here said:

 So if you hold an egg on one hand and you hold an apple on the other hand ..these two objects are different, right ? So the apparent boundary between my physical body and your physical body is ACTUALLY there as long as we are hypnotised by the illusion of separation. Which I think god have created for a reason . After all you are typing on a computer right now to what seems to be an "other " on  the other side of the globe .why are you doing this if I'm not actually real from your POV ? Do you realize that you are literally just talking to yourself? Or do you adopt it as a belief system or a cool philosophical idea ?

I'm not trying to be  smart arse here or split hairs .I'm coming from genuine curiosity and desire to understand .because this whole solipsism stuff is raping my mind on a daily basis ? 

Yes precisely, because physicality is created by the mind.    Well, it is precisely what @Breakingthewall  said, as God - when you imagine a physical barrier, (or "other") it manifests.  When you shift your mind to be lucid that it was something you dreamed up, then that is the state of consciousness you are in.    It is a great responsiblity to wake up, because you essentially have beaten the game.   You are now the developer of the game, and thus, you can never have the feeling of not knowing its a game again, unless you fool yourself.  So the awakened being begins the quest of fooling himself, over and over, until his time is done.  And that's all there is to it.  

Edited March 16, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Breakingthewall]

54 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You have to drop the idea of an external world where objects or creatures exist by themselves. There simply isn't such a thing

1 hour ago, MisterNobody said:

@Breakingthewall 

1 hour ago, Thought Art said:

 

Yes, everything is inside me , there is not outside. The others are inside too, but the matter of the other povs is extremely confused. as soon as you think about it, it runs away. 

The other day with psychedelics I realized the basic error that is to look outside, there is no outside. another pov would be outside. does not exist. how to understand this? it is impossible

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

When it goes blind to the other fingers they cease to exist in that moment.   All that exists is what is in your direct experience.

Yes, there is only what you imagine. to start thinking outside is to fall asleep again. This defies logic completely. but sleep is not an option

[Harsh Bagdia]

On 15/03/2023 at 11:44 PM, MisterNobody said:

Here I am, ready to receive more convincing arguments from the figments of my imagination that I am the only consciousness in existence. 

It's not that you are the only consciousness in existence, it's like - you are the existence itself. 

And yes there are multiple avatars within this. But it's not like each avatar has its own consciousness, it's like - consciousness has multiple avatars within itself. 

On 15/03/2023 at 11:44 PM, MisterNobody said:

Can't it be that I will inhabit every single being that's ever lived on this planet and have the first person experience from inside their skin?

It's just that right now I'm having it from this particular human body. Others are not empty vessels, I believe I am also there, living through them.

 

Yes ofcourse I too believe this. Infact this is the case. Leo's radical implications of oneness video explains it very well that we will experience EVERYTHING.

Imo, the confusion here is that this idea of only you exist is not directed to the personal/imaginary self we imagine ourselves to be but to the real self as a reminder to wake up. 

Relatively speaking, ofcourse others are conscious, otherwise how will you get response from me? It's such a silly notion that others are not real. 

Well absolutely speaking reality is not real, so? 

Isn't it ridiculous that someone is talking to you and saying that you are not real and only I am real or vice versa?

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, MisterNobody said:

@Breakingthewall whenever you think you're experiencing infinity or God on psychedelics, you're actually experiencing your finite mind's idea of what infinity should feel like. Don't let yourself get fooled by drugs. I have been there. 

 No man, you can experience the absolute, and after that realize that you always are experiencing the absolute. But later you forget it and change again the perspective, because it's your inertia: perceptor/perception. This is the illusion. 

[Harsh Bagdia]

22 minutes ago, Harsh Bagdia said:

It's not that you are the only consciousness in existence, it's like - you are the existence itself. 

And yes there are multiple avatars within this. But it's not like each avatar has its own consciousness, it's like - consciousness has multiple avatars within itself. 

Yes ofcourse I too believe this. Infact this is the case. Leo's radical implications of oneness video explains it very well that we will experience EVERYTHING.

Imo, the confusion here is that this idea of only you exist is not directed to the personal/imaginary self we imagine ourselves to be but to the real self as a reminder to wake up. 

Relatively speaking, ofcourse others are conscious, otherwise how will you get response from me? It's such a silly notion that others are not real. 

Well absolutely speaking reality is not real, so? 

Isn't it ridiculous that someone is talking to you and saying that you are not real and only I am real or vice versa?

Imo, more nuanced way of explaining solipsism can be this- 

What we think, say and do has its effect until eternity.

Or 

What one does effects everyone else and what everyone else does effects the one. 

Everything is infinitely interconnected. Infinite chain of cause and effect. 

[iboughtleosbooklist]

11 hours ago, Harsh Bagdia said:

 Infact this is the case. Leo's radical implications of oneness video explains it very well that we will experience EVERYTHING.

Actually I've watched that video and he explains nothing he just lists off horrific lives. He basically just says "trust me bro, egg theory is facts", because he gives zero logical reasons why it should be true.

Infinity is infinitely intelligent, I trust that it won't just mindlessly shuffle through random lifetime after lifetime solipsistically subjecting itself to unnecessary pain and suffering.

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, iboughtleosbooklist said:

Infinity is infinitely intelligent, I trust that it won't just mindlessly shuffle through random lifetime after lifetime solipsistically subjecting itself to unnecessary pain and suffering.

It's not mindless at all. God's whole game is exploring all possible perspectives in order to reach infinite self-understanding.

The logic is simple:

How is God gonna reach Omniscience if it doesn't explore all the pain and suffering?

You cannot understand what pain is until you experience it. God cannot understand what Hitler is without becoming Hitler. You do not understand what Hitler is because you haven't been in his shoes. The only thing you understand right now is your own experience. And you struggle to understand even that!

Edited March 17, 2023 by Leo Gura

[iboughtleosbooklist]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's not mindless at all.

Yes it is. Is there a particular order in which this process happens?

14 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

God's whole game is exploring all possible perspectives in order to reach infinite self-understanding.

Again how do you know this? Do you just like the idea of this? Did God show you? Why should you believe what God shows you? Couldn't it just be another part of the maze?

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The logic is simple:

How is God gonna reach Omniscience if it doesn't explore all the pain and suffering?

Why is that a worthy/meaningful goal? Especially given that I've forgotten 99.99% of my life experiences (how extremely lacking in "omniscience").

20 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You cannot understand what pain is until you experience it. God cannot understand what Hitler is without becoming Hitler. You do not understand what Hitler is because you haven't been in his shoes. The only thing you understand right now is your own experience. And you struggle to understand even that!

Hitler never existed Leo. He's just a dream character. It's your fantasy he existed. Nobody will ever look out of his eyes. The 6 million Jews who died never existed. History is part of the illusion.

[Breakingthewall]

29 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's not mindless at all. God's whole game is exploring all possible perspectives in order to reach infinite self-understanding.

The logic is simple:

How is God gonna reach Omniscience if it doesn't explore all the pain and suffering?

You cannot understand what pain is until you experience it. God cannot understand what Hitler is without becoming Hitler. You do not understand what Hitler is because you haven't been in his shoes. The only thing you understand right now is your own experience. And you struggle to understand even that!

this is rationalizing and if you start that process you go crazy. if god is eternal, he has already experienced hitler infinite times, then why does he continue to experience it?. I do not believe that even you, oh sage, can understand infinity

[vibv]

@iboughtleosbooklist You have no idea what you're talking about.

If you're not just being unnecessarily negative: The issue is, that you're not aware of God's point of view right now. So nothing you say comes out of direct experience. It's just mental guess-work. Pursue direct knowing and see for yourself.

[iboughtleosbooklist]

4 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

this is rationalizing and if you start that process you go crazy. if god is eternal, he has already experienced hitler infinite times, then why does he continue to experience it?.

Exactly.

5 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

 I do not believe that even you, oh sage, can understand infinity

?