Adeptus Psychonautica talks about Leo/Connor again (another suicide revealed)

[Rigel]

15 minutes ago, The Mystical Man said:

A breakup has nothing to do with what's happening here.

The point is a break up is a single event that might push someone over the edge, but most people have them and get over it just fine. There's a whole slew of factors that go into someone ending their life. It's easy to blame and say it's the breakup or it's this dude on YouTube that's the cause.

Edited March 15, 2023 by Rigel

[Danioover9000]

@Breakingthewall

4 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

The problem with Leo and his teachings is that no one understands him, and everything is misinterpreted. 

Those who follow him the most are people interested in improving their lives, not in the truth. Well, it's just that almost everyone is interested in that. very few actually do not even understand that it is a possibility. They just want to suffer less and be happier. That's what we humans are, petty little animals. but hey, at least there is one person in the world who teaches this. If one day you understand it, you will be extremely surprised.

   I think the main issue is not that no one wants to understand or misunderstand his teachings, it's that some will try to weaponize and create a propaganda against @Leo Gura and Actualized.org content. I think the specific issue lies on those that give a bad faith interpretation of his content, and tell other people what they should think beforehand, which can be mostly misinformed, especially those who just want to profit from the money and attention and gossip that comes about. For example, almost all of @AdeptusPsychonautica's content is him making sensational content against Actualized.org, among other YouTube Reactionaries that latch onto attacking and defaming Actualized.org as their life calling, willingly dig themselves into a grave position of sunk cost fallacy that as time goes on will become harder to course correct.

   So, the real question, is that should Actualized.org content be allowed to be shown in YouTube? And should Actualized.org be held responsible even if with the legal warnings and disclaimers beforehand?

   Or, if you're willing to place restrictions on Actualized.org content, should there be restrictions of these types of reactionary content that defames his content?

[Thought Art]

11 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Thought Art

   So, if I'm open minded to new perspectives of Leo's teachings being dangerous, does this make me more open to influence by people who have a bias against Actualized.org?

   Is it solely because of @Leo Gura 's content and his delivery that makes this work dangerous, or the majority of people and some who are into personal development and spirituality that forget to check the description box for warnings and disclaimers, that forget to take responsibility for their own weaknesses?

The world is full of dangerous things. 
 

Leos work is dangerous because he talks a lot about high level spiritual things which you have no grounding or reference experiences for that are way outside of your culture. Psychedelics can be very dangerous for many reasons that should be obvious to the community. 
 

People come to his work with their own mess. Fools swinging hammers around. 
 

But, dangerous doesn’t mean bad. Cars, planes, sports, walking down the street, yoga, etc all these have dangers as well…

Its difficult because with Actualized.org work we are going deep as is possible for a human. Down the the core of reality and it’s operating system. It’s threatening, challenging, confusing. 
 

It’s also dangerous because no one around you will get what you are going through if you go through a hard patch.

[Danioover9000]

@Rigel

5 minutes ago, Rigel said:

The point is a break up is a single event that might push someone over the edge, but most people have them and get over it just fine. There's a whole slew of factors that go into someone ending their life. It's easy to blame and say it's the breakup or it's this dude on YouTube that's the cause.

   How does that point justify @AdeptusPsychonautica's making defamatory reactionary content against Actualized.org?

[Danioover9000]

@Thought Art

Just now, Thought Art said:

The world is full of dangerous things. 
 

Leos work is dangerous because he talks a lot about high level spiritual things which you have no grounding or reference experiences for that are way outside of your culture. Psychedelics can be very dangerous for many reasons that should be obvious to the community. 
 

People come to his work with their own mess. Fools swinging hammers around. 
 

But, dangerous doesn’t mean bad. Cars, planes, sports, walking down the street, yoga, etc all these have dangers as well…

Its difficult because with Actualized.org work we are going deep as is possible for a human. Down the the core of reality and it’s operating system. It’s threatening, challenging, confusing. 
 

It’s also dangerous because no one around you will get what you are going through if you go through a hard patch.

   Yes, world is dangerous, but how does that address and justify @AdeptusPsychonautica's behavior and reactionary content against @Leo Gura's content in YouTube when he already has warnings and disclaimers of his content being advanced and not suitable for viewers with mental disorders and psychosis?

   Leo's work is only dangerous, or are there other dangers that follow that type of work? User error?

   People come into this work, mostly forgetting to read the warnings and disclaimers for every video, and within this forum. Is @Leo Gura responsible for a viewer's/user's forgetfulness and obfuscation of responsibility onto Leo?

   Yes, danger is not limited to Actualized.org content, but how does that tie back to this specific issue that some reactionary content makers make of Actualized.org?

   So, all of a sudden, when I'm going through a hard patch I conveniently forget there's therapy and emotion professional services that I can contact and go to. How is that @Leo Gura's fault when I didn't go and contact those services myself? 

[Rigel]

11 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Rigel

   How does that point justify @AdeptusPsychonautica's making defamatory reactionary content against Actualized.org?

He can make all the content he wants. 

Edited March 15, 2023 by Rigel

[Danioover9000]

@Rigel

2 minutes ago, Rigel said:

It doesn't. I wasnt adressing that. Maybe read the whole thread. He can make all the content he wants. 

   So that justifies him making defamatory content against Actualized.org?

[Thought Art]

User error 

[Rigel]

9 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Rigel

   So that justifies him making defamatory content against Actualized.org?

Not sure what you are asking here. He can criticize all he wants, that doesn't make him just or right.

[Devin]

      Is there an introductory video for the advanced stuff? Maybe he could have a primer video he refers viewers to at the beginning of all the advanced stuff where he lays out prerequisites, traps, and reasoning to not kill yourself. 

[Thought Art]

@Devin he does

[Israfil]

Saying that someone suicided specifically because of spiritual work is a bold claim. When I was suicidal, I wanted to kill myself because of nihilism, but when I got older and integrated some matters more properly, I saw the amount of trauma and other matters that were involved in that ideation, that were condensed behind a "Nothing matters, etc.".

The reason for that person's suicide is the reason that took him to start spiritual work. The spiritual work was not responsible for it, this work is challenging but it is healing. It doesn't make you want to die, it gives you the tool for you to finally live.

That being said, to anyone reading this, if you're depressed or have PTSD, be aware that psychedelics are extremely dangerous to people with those conditions and should not be taken by them. 

[Danioover9000]

@Israfil

10 minutes ago, Israfil said:

Saying that someone suicided specifically because of spiritual work is a bold claim. When I was suicidal, I wanted to kill myself because of nihilism, but when I got older and integrated some matters more properly, I saw the amount of trauma and other matters that were involved in that ideation, that were condensed behind a "Nothing matters, etc.".

The reason for that person's suicide is the reason that took him to start spiritual work. The spiritual work was not responsible for it, this work is challenging but it is healing. It doesn't make you want to die, it gives you the tool for you to finally live.

That being said, to anyone reading this, if you're depressed or have PTSD, be aware that psychedelics are extremely dangerous to people with those conditions and should not be taken by them. 

   Actually this is a fair point, as people with a bias against @Leo Gura and Actualized.org conflate his spiritual teachings and psychedelics as the only cause of a person suiciding, which needs further proofing and justification for such a bold claim, and already those making these claims such as @AdeptusPsychonautica are in shaky grounds for making a persuasive and convincing case against Actualized.org. They only make reactionary content for the drama and viewership, and make outlandish and bad claims that Actualized.org is the only source of these suicidal ideations, meanwhile making some profit and buzz from the sensational coverage of those cases which is to me immoral to do so.

[Danioover9000]

@Rigel

27 minutes ago, Rigel said:

Not sure what you are asking here. He can criticize all he wants, that doesn't make him just or right.

   I'm asking if @AdeptusPsychonautica can make assertions and claims, can argue against Actualized.org content being in YouTube, and Actualized.org being the sole cause of these Specific cases of suicides recently in this community, with little evidence to back up such claims?

   I'm not asking if he has the right to do these claims, I'm asking if he can still make immoral claims and make unjustifiable criticism to @Leo Gura's content, when said content is not the main cause, and get's to conflate his advanced teachings as the main cause? Does he get to make slanderous and defamatory takes as well, some that can and do effect the earnings and PR of Actualized.org when later it could be the case that such bold claims were falsely made for clout?

[something_else]

2 hours ago, The Mystical Man said:

How many times do we need to outline the experience of what it's like to go down the Actualized rabbit hole and what that does to people? It's a very negative experience that many people have talked about, including in the video linked at the beginning of this thread. 

This just reads to me like a cop out to avoid explaining yourself

Just because something doesn’t resonate with you doesn’t mean it’s falsehood and should be cancelled/deleted from the internet. It just means you should follow other teachers.

[Devin]

43 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

@Devin he does

 I'm not finding it can you point me to it?

[Breakingthewall]

9 hours ago, lostingenosmaze said:

when you come across someone who is like truly spiritual and truly a good person, a true role model: they don't have to tell you how fucking enlightened they are.

this is what people think spirituality is. Almost no one understands that spirituality is the understanding of reality. From his point of view, everything he says is justified, and many people will share his pov, especially if they hear leo say things about alien rats. only few will see the total sincerity in him. It's like a cutting line, most will stand aside, a few will understand

[Danioover9000]

@lostingenosmaze

10 hours ago, lostingenosmaze said:

Recent podcast interviewing Adeptus Psychonautica about the dangers and traps within the spiritual/psychedelic community and the recent developments of actualized.org and the forum. What's really interesting is the host OXSN has his own intimate experience following Leo Gura and even initially defended him when Adeptus made an expose on the Connor Murphy incident. Watch how his journey and close friend's suicide sobered him from his own paradigm and ideology (the details of the suicide were vague as he didn't wish to disclose much; what's revealed is that OXSN did expose his friend to spiritual teachings including those of actualized.org before he ultimately took his own life)

Some interesting points within the video:

34:09 "The example I use is like, if you saw a bee, like a buzzy bee but it was not trying to be a bee. It was trying to be a fucking elephant. It would be like 'you fucking bellend', just be a bee, just eat the pollen. Enjoy your life as a bee! Don't pretend to be an elephant, you cannot be an elephant, you're a bee. Be the fucking bee. That's how I feel when I hear all these like, you know, the people who get really obsessed with all the God-Consciousness. And that's not to say there's no value in those thoughts, but the value has got to compile back into a human being. To sit there and go floating about like 'oh, I'm so enlightened, I'm so God-Consciousness' is like, it serves no purpose other than to be like a wanker. But if you could embody that, if you could live your life like, when you come across someone who is like truly spiritual and truly a good person, a true role model: they don't have to tell you how fucking enlightened they are. They don't tell you what a good person they are and how better they because they achieved God-Consciousness. You just know like 'wow, this is a great person'. They don't need to tell you this. So all these people who like beat you over the head with how fucking spiritual they are, I could only assume they don't realize how fucking conterproductive that looks. Because I don't see anything spiritual with, like we say with the sort of 'the Leo Guras' of the world."

50:40 "I've got say, if there's one thing, out of all of Leo's flaws, the one thing I'll pull up on: the guy has like zero compassion and he's so detached from his own experience of a human being that, in my opinion, he doesn't seem to realize the effect he's having on these group of people. So that when he comes out with something really flippant on the forums, or- I'm sure he seems to handle things in his way, and not necessarily had something that's led to what's happened to your friend, but he's answering things in his way with zero understanding and like 'no, these might be people in trouble'. When I've been on the actualized forums, it is an absolute meeting room with very, very definite and very obvious mental issues. There's some serious fucking problems on that forum, and some of the moderators should not be moderating fucking dogshit, in my opinion. But they're all egging each other on and, one of the best descriptions I've ever heard for the kind of behaviors on actualized, which came from one of my friends James Jessal: there's a lot in the way where Leo describes his own activities, which feels like a challenge to the audience. Like 'I did all this 5meO-DMT so it got me here so you should do it'. And the guy will say things like 'you shouldn't do this', but it's a challenge. Like 'if you do this then you get to this level of Consciousness' and 'you just don't understand, you just don't understand, unless you've done it, you just don't understand'. So there's this constant challenging of these very vulnerable, very fragile, very destabilized audience; I just see people's fucking heads explode. Alot of people contact me because they want to talk about that experience. Especially the stuff around solipsism, which to me, it's almost hard to understand how people get so destabilized by that, but whether I get or not, at least I understand that people are going through this. Like people believe in this and they don't necessarily want to believe it. They don't want to believe that their loved ones are figments of their imagination 'but Leo's said it's true so must be true!' It could really fuck people's heads up."

   Big assumption here being conflated, that saying you are this good or that amazing, in this 'I'm so enlightened that bla bla bla' is already a big mistake here. What's actually happened is that there's an overreaction to someone who has had a deep understanding of reality that contradicts parts of it a person holds dear, and are similar to teachings of the past. However, it's the demonization, culturally and mainstream for roughly a century of psychedelic use by the Nixon administration that ends up generating most of the misunderstandings of psychedelics, and that had many implications to other areas and domains that partly use psychedelics here.

   @AdeptusPsychonautica's just limited by his calling, of a YouTube reactionary that specializes in drama farming, and should be considered with a bucket of salt whether his claims are valid and truthful. He already has made up his mind long ago to create reactionary content against @Leo Gura and Actualized.org content for the foreseeable future, and will utilize those who have had a more negative than positive experience with Actualized.org for future hit pieces on it.

[The Mystical Man]

1 hour ago, something_else said:

This just reads to me like a cop out to avoid explaining yourself

You're right, I don't feel like explaining myself. I thought about writing something like Power vs. Truth, but there are people who would do a much better job at it than me. Besides, criticizing Gura is its own endless rabbit hole.

Edited March 15, 2023 by The Mystical Man

[Yimpa]

As someone with mental illnesses myself, I can say that the teachings on Actualized and the community have been fundamental in my life.

In the beginning I was trying to emulate Leo, but I started to realize that by doing that I’m dishonoring my own journey. I now take the teachings and adjust them to my own unique circumstances. 

Edited March 15, 2023 by Thought Art