Adeptus Psychonautica talks about Leo/Connor again (another suicide revealed)

[lostingenosmaze]

Recent podcast interviewing Adeptus Psychonautica about the dangers and traps within the spiritual/psychedelic community and the recent developments of actualized.org and the forum. What's really interesting is the host OXSN has his own intimate experience following Leo Gura and even initially defended him when Adeptus made an expose on the Connor Murphy incident. Watch how his journey and close friend's suicide sobered him from his own paradigm and ideology (the details of the suicide were vague as he didn't wish to disclose much; what's revealed is that OXSN did expose his friend to spiritual teachings including those of actualized.org before he ultimately took his own life)

Some interesting points within the video:

34:09 "The example I use is like, if you saw a bee, like a buzzy bee but it was not trying to be a bee. It was trying to be a fucking elephant. It would be like 'you fucking bellend', just be a bee, just eat the pollen. Enjoy your life as a bee! Don't pretend to be an elephant, you cannot be an elephant, you're a bee. Be the fucking bee. That's how I feel when I hear all these like, you know, the people who get really obsessed with all the God-Consciousness. And that's not to say there's no value in those thoughts, but the value has got to compile back into a human being. To sit there and go floating about like 'oh, I'm so enlightened, I'm so God-Consciousness' is like, it serves no purpose other than to be like a wanker. But if you could embody that, if you could live your life like, when you come across someone who is like truly spiritual and truly a good person, a true role model: they don't have to tell you how fucking enlightened they are. They don't tell you what a good person they are and how better they because they achieved God-Consciousness. You just know like 'wow, this is a great person'. They don't need to tell you this. So all these people who like beat you over the head with how fucking spiritual they are, I could only assume they don't realize how fucking conterproductive that looks. Because I don't see anything spiritual with, like we say with the sort of 'the Leo Guras' of the world."

50:40 "I've got say, if there's one thing, out of all of Leo's flaws, the one thing I'll pull up on: the guy has like zero compassion and he's so detached from his own experience of a human being that, in my opinion, he doesn't seem to realize the effect he's having on these group of people. So that when he comes out with something really flippant on the forums, or- I'm sure he seems to handle things in his way, and not necessarily had something that's led to what's happened to your friend, but he's answering things in his way with zero understanding and like 'no, these might be people in trouble'. When I've been on the actualized forums, it is an absolute meeting room with very, very definite and very obvious mental issues. There's some serious fucking problems on that forum, and some of the moderators should not be moderating fucking dogshit, in my opinion. But they're all egging each other on and, one of the best descriptions I've ever heard for the kind of behaviors on actualized, which came from one of my friends James Jessal: there's a lot in the way where Leo describes his own activities, which feels like a challenge to the audience. Like 'I did all this 5meO-DMT so it got me here so you should do it'. And the guy will say things like 'you shouldn't do this', but it's a challenge. Like 'if you do this then you get to this level of Consciousness' and 'you just don't understand, you just don't understand, unless you've done it, you just don't understand'. So there's this constant challenging of these very vulnerable, very fragile, very destabilized audience; I just see people's fucking heads explode. Alot of people contact me because they want to talk about that experience. Especially the stuff around solipsism, which to me, it's almost hard to understand how people get so destabilized by that, but whether I get or not, at least I understand that people are going through this. Like people believe in this and they don't necessarily want to believe it. They don't want to believe that their loved ones are figments of their imagination 'but Leo's said it's true so must be true!' It could really fuck people's heads up."

Edited March 15, 2023 by lostingenosmaze

[Leo Gura]

I tell you guys that this work is advanced for a reason. In the hands of a fool you can misuse advanced ideas to ruin your life.

That does not mean I will dumb down what I teach just because a few mentally unstable people cannot handle it.

Take responsibility for what you can handle. I will continue to teach the most advanced things in the world. Most people will not get it. But plenty will. I don't care about how my teachings make you feel. I care whether they are true and effective. To most humans this notion is not very fathomable, because you don't care about truth nor consciousness, you care about human feelings. So yeah, what I teach is not fun and pleasantness. I teach the most serious things that could possibility be comprehended by the mind. You should decide for yourself whether that's suitable for you. This is really a question of seriousness. Are you serious or not?

I'm not interested in compassion. I'm interested in serious understanding of reality. Any compassion I have -- which I still have plenty of -- is secondary. This is not a mistake. This is by design. If what you want and need is a mother figure to comfort you and hug you, I'm not your guy. You can find that elsewhere. After you get all your hugs elsewhere, then you can come to me for some serious work. And I got nothing against seeking out hugs if you need them. Just don't expect that from me. My work is not designed for people with mental illness or who can barely hold their life together. If you are in that situation you should seek out more compassionate therapeutic help.

People can and will abuse, misuse, and misunderstand my teachings. That is the nature of ignorance. I go out of my way to be extremely clear about what I teach. Few teachers are as clear, detailed, and explicit in what they teach. I don't know how to be any more clear. Every trap and warning has been explicated. Applying these teachings requires serious intelligence. There is no way around intelligence. This work cannot work without intelligence. I wish I could supply intelligence to you, but that is not possible.

If you want to criticize me for being a bit of an asshole, that's fair. But is anything I teach about Consciousness false? If so, that would be the real criticism. If you think anything I teach about Consciousness is false, feel free to bring it up to me and I will try to clarify or correct it.

Edited March 15, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Dazgwny]

100% on board with Leo’s response here

[JosephKnecht]

 

4 hours ago, lostingenosmaze said:

(the details of the suicide were vague as he didn't wish to disclose much; what's revealed is that OXSN did expose his friend to spiritual teachings including those of actualized.org before he ultimately took his own life)

@lostingenosmaze At the 44:50 mark he clearly states that his friend was NOT a fan of Leo Gura. It's disingenuous to attribute his suicide to actualized.org. Spirituality can be extremely dangerous so we have to be careful in our approach to it.  

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I don't care about how my teachings make you feel. I care whether they are true and effective. To most humans this notion is not very fathomable, because you don't care about truth nor consciousness, you care about human feelings.

What is the effect that you want to have on your students if ultimately you don't care about their well-being?

What you are currently doing is talking on a public forum (youtube) to impressionable young people. You have an effect on people and it's best that you are aware of the effect. 

To make an extreme analogy, I can also go to a kindergarten and yell at the kids that Santa is not real. Is it true? Yes. Is it effective? Yes. But at the end of my ordeal, I leave with lots of crying children. 

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I'm not interested in compassion. I'm interested in serious understanding of reality.

Don't you want to understand compassion? Or compassion is no longer part of your reality? 

Go to a third-world country where a mother is starving because she gave all the food to her children. Look at her face. Really LOOK at her. Maybe then you will understand. 

[The Mystical Man]

@Leo Gura If I were in your position, I'd be heartbroken. Because your "work" -- which is a sordid edifice of glorious delusions -- is having a negative impact on young people. But you don't care.

People who follow you are suffering Narcissistic Abuse: "The term describes a type of emotional abuse that comes from a person with narcissistic personality disorder (NPD). People with NPD have low empathy and see others as beneath them, which can lead to harmful, toxic, abusive behaviors." If that doesn't describe what's happening here, then I don't know what does. 

The problem isn't that your "work" is too advanced -- because there's nothing advanced about your "work" -- the problem is that it's falsehood. No one should get sucked into listening to you for 400 hours. If I were you, I'd delete all my videos. Watching your videos is like eating a can of tuna every day. You think you're doing something good, but you end up with heavy metal poisoning. Your "work" is poison. There's nothing that you can do to "correct" poison. The best thing you can do is to get rid of it, but I know you won't do it. But life will find a way to dethrone you.

[Devin]

50 minutes ago, The Mystical Man said:

@Leo Gura If I were in your position, I'd be heartbroken. Because your "work" -- which is a sordid edifice of glorious delusions -- is having a negative impact on young people. But you don't care.

People who follow you are suffering Narcissistic Abuse: "The term describes a type of emotional abuse that comes from a person with narcissistic personality disorder (NPD). People with NPD have low empathy and see others as beneath them, which can lead to harmful, toxic, abusive behaviors." If that doesn't describe what's happening here, then I don't know what does. 

The problem isn't that your "work" is too advanced -- because there's nothing advanced about your "work" -- the problem is that it's falsehood. No one should get sucked into listening to you for 400 hours. If I were you, I'd delete all my videos. Watching your videos is like eating a can of tuna every day. You think you're doing something good, but you end up with heavy metal poisoning. Your "work" is poison. There's nothing that you can do to "correct" poison. The best thing you can do is to get rid of it, but I know you won't do it. But life will find a way to dethrone you.

He helped me. Out of everything consumed by the youth, you worry about this? I find that unbelievable. Without this they're dead anyways.

Edited March 15, 2023 by Devin

[The Mystical Man]

13 minutes ago, Devin said:

He helped me.

Good for you.

13 minutes ago, Devin said:

Out of everything consumed by the youth, you worry about this?

Yes, and it's warranted.

13 minutes ago, Devin said:

Without this they're dead anyways.

What?

[Thought Art]

@The Mystical Man Interesting view ol boy.

If I understand you correctly everyone is an abused, delusional retard except for you, and others who don’t like the videos and work. 

Edited March 15, 2023 by Thought Art

[something_else]

1 hour ago, The Mystical Man said:

@Leo Gura If I were in your position, I'd be heartbroken. Because your "work" -- which is a sordid edifice of glorious delusions -- is having a negative impact on young people. But you don't care.

People who follow you are suffering Narcissistic Abuse: "The term describes a type of emotional abuse that comes from a person with narcissistic personality disorder (NPD). People with NPD have low empathy and see others as beneath them, which can lead to harmful, toxic, abusive behaviors." If that doesn't describe what's happening here, then I don't know what does. 

The problem isn't that your "work" is too advanced -- because there's nothing advanced about your "work" -- the problem is that it's falsehood. No one should get sucked into listening to you for 400 hours. If I were you, I'd delete all my videos. Watching your videos is like eating a can of tuna every day. You think you're doing something good, but you end up with heavy metal poisoning. Your "work" is poison. There's nothing that you can do to "correct" poison. The best thing you can do is to get rid of it, but I know you won't do it. But life will find a way to dethrone you.

 

 

 

Ironically, you are accusing someone of being arrogant/narcistic whilst being very arrogant yourself.

This style of criticism is not productive at all. You're basically just saying "you're bad, wrong, and you should delete everything you've every created but I can't actually tell you why in detail, you're just wrong"

Notice that your criticism here is exceptionally surface level. 

Edited March 15, 2023 by something_else

[Devin]

8 minutes ago, The Mystical Man said:

What?

Where are all the thriving people? Most people are dead eyed hollow husks.

[The Mystical Man]

10 minutes ago, something_else said:

I can't actually tell you why in detail

How many times do we need to outline the experience of what it's like to go down the Actualized rabbit hole and what that does to people? It's a very negative experience that many people have talked about, including in the video linked at the beginning of this thread. 

[The Mystical Man]

22 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

If I understand you correctly everyone is an abused, delusional retard except for you

No, I've suffered this abuse, too. For seven years.

[Jodistrict]

An important part of life is developing a good Bullshit detector.  Crash and Burn.  But learn from each experience.  You have a limited amount of time on earth.  

[The Mystical Man]

1 hour ago, Squeekytoy said:

Why not go after what you do like, rather than what you don't like?

That's not so easy, once you're sucked in.

[Thought Art]

13 minutes ago, The Mystical Man said:

No, I've suffered this abuse, too. For seven years.

What is the abuse you suffered?

[The Mystical Man]

6 hours ago, Thought Art said:

What is the abuse you suffered?

It's an abuse by deranged ideas and a toxic personality.

Edited March 15, 2023 by The Mystical Man

[Devin]

Just now, The Mystical Man said:

It's an abuse by deranged ideas.

Welcome to life.

[Thought Art]

I really think, though I’m open to new perspectives that Leo’s teachings are dangerous because people are fools, and when it comes to radically opening your mind there’s a tonne, a tonne! Of traps. 
 

My journey wasn’t easy with this man. But, when I reached some of my deepest awakenings, when I see the smiles on my students faces, when I read the book list, grow, overcome challenges, apply the teachings etc… I am personally very grateful. 
 

However, I also know people who get lost in it. But, I struggle to know if that is solely Leo’s fault because there are lots of factors like that persons traumatic history, their cognitive abilities and education and life experience going into the videos. These videos are dangerous. Specifically the spiritual and deep topics of no duality, awakening and God realization and the use of psychedelics. Leo doesn’t hide that. Advanced!! This to me is obvious. But, they also have the potential to be very valuable. 

[Rigel]

17 minutes ago, The Mystical Man said:

How many times do we need to outline the experience of what it's like to go down the Actualized rabbit hole and what that does to people? It's a very negative experience that many people have talked about, including in the video linked at the beginning of this thread. 

Dude, people will have negative experience with just about anything. You are ignoring the majority of people's experience with this "work", taking edge cases and fearmongering a doomsday scenario where a dude on YouTube will make you kill yourself. Come back to earth. People have lives outside of this forum. You are taking Leo way too seriously. This is the internet.

[ZenAlex]

That Adeptus guy looks 40 and 80 at the same time.