The pleasure - pain theory

[MisterNobody]

Ok so my theory is that for every pleasure we experience in life, there will come a pain that will cancel it. 

Imagine positive/ pleasurable experiences as positive numbers: +17, +5, +24 etc.

Imagine negative/ painful experiences as negative numbers: -21, -12, -9 etc.

My theory is that at the end of your life, the numbers will add to 0. Perfect equilibrium. Absolute balance.

There's no way you can escape this. It has to be like this! Life is fair! There are no winners and losers in life. There is no distinction. Distinction is illusory. 

Think about it. Challenge me with questions, contra-arguments, contra-examples. I have meditated upon this for hundreds of hours. It makes perfect sense

[Carl-Richard]

There is a thing called adaptation, which makes you adapt to your circumstances, but there is also a thing called dynamism and growth, which allows you to change your circumstances, but which requires challenge. Living on the balance between adaptation and challenge is what growth is, and that is where most pleasure is found. When you have adaptation but no challenge, you have degeneration and a downward spiral of of more and more pain. Look at drug addicts, sick people, or dying people. Are they experiencing more or less pain? Are they growing or degenerating, active or inactive, responsive or inert, living or dying?

Edited March 14, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Viswanath]

50 minutes ago, MisterNobody said:

Ok so my theory is that for every pleasure we experience in life, there will come a pain that will cancel it. 

Imagine positive/ pleasurable experiences as positive numbers: +17, +5, +24 etc.

Imagine negative/ painful experiences as negative numbers: -21, -12, -9 etc.

My theory is that at the end of your life, the numbers will add to 0. Perfect equilibrium. Absolute balance.

There's no way you can escape this. It has to be like this! Life is fair! There are no winners and losers in life. There is no distinction. Distinction is illusory. 

Think about it. Challenge me with questions, contra-arguments, contra-examples. I have meditated upon this for hundreds of hours. It makes perfect sense

Hi there.

Like, how you said in another thread that "Good and Bad are subjective, human concepts", will you agree in the same manner that "Positive +17,etc. and Negative -21,etc., is also human concepts, subjective"?

Like At first to Till Atlast - everything everywhere all at once, only '0' remains but never any '+17, -21,...' from birth to till death and in every experiences (also in No-Experience)?, but that 'subjective, human concepts' is out of Ignorance (like, if one doesn't have thought of 'world,etc.'- one won't create such concepts but just 'Bliss --> Peace'?)?

Edited March 14, 2023 by Viswanath

[HMD]

39 minutes ago, MisterNobody said:

Ok so my theory is that for every pleasure we experience in life, there will come a pain that will cancel it.

“For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away." Explain this. 

[Viswanath]

12 minutes ago, HMD said:

“For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away." Explain this. 

It's about Bliss(true limitless happiness - not based on materials) and Pleasure.

First, this "For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance" - it's about Bliss.

Then, this "but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away.", who doesn't have Bliss, then Pleasure shall be taken away.

 

Just my own view. 

Edited March 14, 2023 by Viswanath

[MisterNobody]

@Viswanath exactly. Only 0 exists. But this 0 is subjected to Time. It is stretched in Time. So at times he might seem like a positive number, sometimes he seems like a negative number (and that is real and true, for that specific moment in Time), but ultimately he is just 0, as taken as a whole and as seen from Outside of Time. 

[MisterNobody]

@HMD it's just a dumb quote. Stop viewing the Bible as some authoritative intelligence.  Remember God is fair ! He doesnt not discriminate.

[Viswanath]

3 minutes ago, MisterNobody said:

@Viswanath exactly. Only 0 exists. But this 0 is subjected to Time. It is stretched in Time. So at times he might seem like a positive number, sometimes he seems like a negative number (and that is real and true, for that specific moment in Time), but ultimately he is just 0, as taken as a whole and as seen from Outside of Time. 

Okay... Good.

But, do you feel that, in that specific moment, that "seeming" (0 looks positive, negative) is 'Real and True', as much as 'Real and True' - Outside of Time (0)?

 

Like, you feel that, "Positive nd Negative is there as Real as 0 at that moment"?

Edited March 14, 2023 by Viswanath

[MisterNobody]

@Viswanath Your subjective experience is valid and absolute, so it is real and true, for sure. By Outside of Time I meant "taken as a whole" - judging it by seeing it from the beginning all the way to the end, as a whole. 

[Viswanath]

9 minutes ago, MisterNobody said:

@Viswanath Your subjective experience is valid and absolute, so it is real and true, for sure. By Outside of Time I meant "taken as a whole" - judging it by seeing it from the beginning all the way to the end, as a whole. 

Experience - Valid. But, things in Experience? Beliefs in Experience? I don't think so. One May give a validity that One had dreamt in Night is Real and True whatever is dreamt. But, to me it's just unwise and Ignorance.

Whole is wise, and believing in subjective experience creates an ignorance/belief that "all objects experienced in such subjective experience is Real and True". 

Limitations, are the sign to give no value as "real and true" to such objective limitations experienced subjectively.

 

It's like Air and Hurricane. Water and Waves. A speedy movement experienced doesn't mean "Hurricane is true as much as Air, Waves are true as much as Water". Believing in such movement is Illusion-Ignorance.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Viswanath

[HMD]

@MisterNobody It's not a dumb quote. It's a law of the Universe. It's the 80/20 principle. Open your mind. You asked to be challenged, I didn't know you were going to disqualify the challenge in your spiritual arrogance. 

[Viswanath]

18 minutes ago, MisterNobody said:

@Viswanath Your subjective experience is valid and absolute, so it is real and true, for sure. By Outside of Time I meant "taken as a whole" - judging it by seeing it from the beginning all the way to the end, as a whole. 

In other words, what can be said as "Real and True" must have Substance in it. Even the Atoms and etc., has just less than 0.0001% substance in itself, but that too based on some kind of Wave-like Movement which Science cannot determine due to Planck (or time - to the power negative). Whatever couldn't be given a substance, cannot be said as Real and True, nd only that which "Is There", and that is "One Formless". ;-)

[MisterNobody]

@Viswanath Everything you feel is valid. Stop denying yourself. You fail to acknowledge and accept the negatives.

Your subjective experience is all there is. Subjective=objective really. Objective means "subjective but viewed as a whole" (as outside of time).

Also, since Reality itself is a Dream, it doesnt matter whether we are in a dream inside a dream, or in Reality (the main dream). So whatever you are experiencing right now is REAL. And Fake, at the same time, it depends of how you view it. 

[MisterNobody]

@HMD what makes you think this quote applies to life? give me examples 

[Viswanath]

10 minutes ago, MisterNobody said:

@Viswanath Everything you feel is valid. Stop denying yourself. You fail to acknowledge and accept the negatives.

Your subjective experience is all there is. Subjective=objective really. Objective means "subjective but viewed as a whole" (as outside of time).

Also, since Reality itself is a Dream, it doesnt matter whether we are in a dream inside a dream, or in Reality (the main dream). So whatever you are experiencing right now is REAL. And Fake, at the same time, it depends of how you view it. 

If there is anything to validate and acknowledge, I see none other than "ONE".

The Subject depends on object, and vice versa. If object removed, Subject also gets removed. Here, Subject - 'self (small 's'), ego, desires, etc.', and object is whatever experienced of that subject. Both depends on each other. When Ego dissolves, then conscious of Materiality too dissolves in time. The presence of such desire, belief upon Subjective Experience - renders the power to think ignorantly that "object" is real too.

 

But, when both gone unconscious, end of limitations, what remains? ?

[Viswanath]

31 minutes ago, MisterNobody said:

@Viswanath Everything you feel is valid. Stop denying yourself. You fail to acknowledge and accept the negatives.

Your subjective experience is all there is. Subjective=objective really. Objective means "subjective but viewed as a whole" (as outside of time).

Also, since Reality itself is a Dream, it doesnt matter whether we are in a dream inside a dream, or in Reality (the main dream). So whatever you are experiencing right now is REAL. And Fake, at the same time, it depends of how you view.

It depends on how you view?

If one feels "Everything one feels is valid", then if one feels to "deny oneself" and if one feels to "reject accepting the negatives, etc.", then that is also valid??

If one feels "this is Real" and another feels "this is Fake", then which is Real and Fake based on "feelings or Subjective Experience"? Which one's Subjective Experience is 'Real&Fake' for Real?

Edited March 14, 2023 by Viswanath

[MisterNobody]

@Viswanath You said "Experience is valid, but the things in it are not". Which I thought was weird. Think about it. The things in the experience are actually the experience itself if you understand non-duality. So you can either say both the experience and the things in it are real and valid, OR the experience and the things in it are both fake. 

You're getting too hung up on words. I validate subject, you deny object. It's the same thing really. 

[Viswanath]

2 minutes ago, MisterNobody said:

@Viswanath You said "Experience is valid, but the things in it are not". Which I thought was weird. Think about it. The things in the experience are actually the experience itself if you understand non-duality. So you can either say both the experience and the things in it are real and valid, OR the experience and the things in it are both fake. 

You're getting too hung up on words. I validate subject, you deny object. It's the same thing really. 

I deny both subject and object. I deny both subject-experience and things Experienced. Na iti Na iti.

 

Why I said "Experience - Valid" is, I can't deny there is no experience at all. But, I deny such experience as Real One (but only like Dreamy experience, like experiencing Snake upon Rope), and deny all things experienced as Real.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Viswanath

[tuku747]

2 minutes ago, Viswanath said:

I deny both subject and object. I deny both subject-experience and things Experienced. Na iti Na iti.

Why deny anything at all?

[MisterNobody]

@Viswanath yes whatever you feel is valid. If you deny the negatives and consider yourself enlightened you probably have a different definition of enlightenment.