Will awakening eliminate all suffering?

[Someone here]

I read in a book called "silence of the heart " by Robert Adams that enlightenment will cure all your suffering completely and nothing can ever bother you again. Once you awaken you wouldn't care what happens because you will know that your true self can't be harmed in any away. 

The author uses the analogy of a TV screen..does the screen get affected by what's being displayed on it ? Would it matter for the screen If what is being displayed on it is a porn movie or the holocaust?  The TV screen remains untouched.  And it is indifferent as to what is going on within it. 

The TV screen being awareness or consciousness which is supposed to be your true self.  And what's being shown in the TV screen is the world of phenomenon. 

So if you identify with the appearances of the world ..you will suffer accordingly because you  identify with pain and pleasure.  Whereas if you identify as consciousness you can't suffer and nothing can harm you.. Because you recognise yourself to be the screen. Not the movie .

Is this view correct? 

Edited March 13, 2023 by Someone here

[Yimpa]

Consciousness imagines suffering. 

The ultimate goal is not to get rid of suffering, it’s to understand it deeply. 

Are you up for that?

[Someone here]

3 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

The ultimate goal is not to get rid of suffering, it’s to understand it deeply. 

Go put your hands on hot stove for just a few seconds and see whether you care  more about understanding suffering or getting rid of it. 

[Thought Art]

Won’t stop suffering. You need to balance awakening with health, mental health, common sense, developing you self esteem and cognitive behaviour.

If you break your hand it will hurt… starving hurts… shitty jobs hurt. 
 

You can develop yourself through all this l, but it’s not like an on and off switch 

Edited March 13, 2023 by Thought Art

[Waken]

I think such statements as 'enlightenment will get rid of all your suffering' may not be a very helpful one, and may result in people focusing on the wrong things in life. Teachings that focus rather on how to relate to life, yourself, emotions, thoughts, etc., may result in a more heart centered and empowered path if you ask me

[Someone here]

2 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

Won’t stop suffering. You need to balance awakening with health, mental health, common sense, developing you self esteem and cognitive behaviour.

If you break your hand it will hurt… starving hurts… shitty jobs hurt. 
 

You can develop yourself through all this l, but it’s not like an on and off switch 

I think there are two levels.. For the ego there is always suffering. Even when you sit perfectly alone in silence you feel bored. The ego is always dissatisfied with whatever is going on. 

On the other side your "true self" is pure indifferent awareness. It doesn't give a Dam about your health or who annoyed you in the world today. It just exists. It just is. Unattached. 

What do you think? 

 

 

[Someone here]

3 minutes ago, Waken said:

I think such statements as 'enlightenment will get rid of all your suffering' may not be a very helpful one, and may result in people focusing on the wrong things in life. Teachings that focus rather on how to relate to life, yourself, emotions, thoughts, etc., may result in a more heart centered and empowered path if you ask me

Aren't awakening supposed to be the most desirable thing in the world? What do you really care about? Isn't it the cessation of suffering and gaining lasting happiness? If awakening does not make you happy and turns your life into pure joy, then, really, what's the point? 

[Yimpa]

13 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Go put your hands on hot stove for just a few seconds and see whether you care  more about understanding suffering or getting rid of it. 

You don’t need to do reckless things to understand suffering. 

[Thought Art]

@Someone here I don’t always suffer 

But, there is suffering in life even for the enlightened 

[Someone here]

1 minute ago, Thought Art said:

@Someone here I don’t always suffer 

But, there is suffering in life even for the enlightened 

Then enlightenment is not worth the hustle?

The Buddha's main teaching was how to eliminate suffering.  The Hindus say you are Sat-Chit-Ananda..meaning existence, awareness, bliss. Jesus talks about the kingdom of heaven. What are you basing your claim on that enlightened people suffer? 

5 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

You don’t need to do reckless things to understand suffering. 

You misunderstood me. I mean you care more about eliminating suffering than merely understanding it. 

[Thought Art]

@Someone here The ending of suffering isn’t the only goal or point of enlightenment. That’s a partial, limited framing probably resulted from a thin study of Buddhism. 
 

Being more conscious, having awakenings, etc will, if done properly lower suffering, generally. But it’s not the only goal. 
 

Literally everyone is capable of suffering. Though, enlightened people likely suffer less. 

The goal of enlightenment is to know yourself as God. But, that being said the word enlightenment is used by different schools and can point to different things. 

Osho suffered, Leo suffers, jesus suffered in the cross… 

In my development I do work to limit suffering, and maximize feeling good. My awakenings generally feel very good. There is no suffering when very awake. But, it’s only part of the game. 
 

Awakening leads to truth. But, if an awakened one has cancer he will likely suffer. 

Edited March 13, 2023 by Thought Art

[Someone here]

6 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

@Someone here The ending of suffering isn’t the only goal or point of enlightenment. That’s a partial, limited framing probably resulted from a thin study of Buddhism. 
 

Being more conscious, having awakenings, etc will, if done properly lower suffering, generally. But it’s not the only goal. 
 

Literally everyone is capable of suffering. Though, enlightened people likely suffer less. 
 

Osho suffered, Leo suffers, jesus suffered in the cross… 

In my development I do work to limit suffering, and maximize feeling good. My awakenings generally feel very good. There is no suffering when very awake. But, it’s only part of the game. 

Disagree

I think It’s axiomatic that enlightened people do not suffer. Things can hurt, but there is no suffering. Explaining how this can happen is explaining enlightenment.

There is body, there is mind, and there is pure awareness. Normal people identify with one or more of these things. The enlightened do not identify as any of them. You can strip an enlightened person of any of them and there would be little to no distress.

Suffering is when you identify with pain or loss. So if you have body identification, and you lose your hand, you are suffering because you felt a sense of loss. An enlightened person would simply carry on life learning how to get by without one of his hands.

His brain might still generate feelings of pain from the act of losing the hand and such, but because he’s not identifying with his mind either, he doesn’t perceive the pain as anything more than just pain. 

[gettoefl]

life has 3 realms, samsara nirvana nondual

spirituality is the journey from 1 to 3

nirvana is the end of suffering, it it the transmuting of every bad to its good 

and while we're here nondual is from good to god, your absolute reality

[Waken]

37 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Aren't awakening supposed to be the most desirable thing in the world? What do you really care about? Isn't it the cessation of suffering and gaining lasting happiness? If awakening does not make you happy and turns your life into pure joy, then, really, what's the point? 

If you deem something as most desirable, doesn't mean that chasing it is the way to go about it:-)

Edited March 13, 2023 by Waken

[Thought Art]

15 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Disagree

I think It’s axiomatic that enlightened people do not suffer. Things can hurt, but there is no suffering. Explaining how this can happen is explaining enlightenment.

There is body, there is mind, and there is pure awareness. Normal people identify with one or more of these things. The enlightened do not identify as any of them. You can strip an enlightened person of any of them and there would be little to no distress.

Suffering is when you identify with pain or loss. So if you have body identification, and you lose your hand, you are suffering because you felt a sense of loss. An enlightened person would simply carry on life learning how to get by without one of his hands.

His brain might still generate feelings of pain from the act of losing the hand and such, but because he’s not identifying with his mind either, he doesn’t perceive the pain as anything more than just pain. 

Identify with whatever you want 

if I put a nail through your hand and no medical attention you will suffer. Even if you “don’t identify” with it. 
 

However, yes you can learn to feel very good with Toasist inner alchemy, books, self esteem, mastery of life and you mind body in general. Awakening and seeing it’s a dream helps. 
 

I just think saying enlightenment fixes everything is false. It does, and then and doesn’t. 

Edited March 13, 2023 by Thought Art

[Someone here]

11 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

life has 3 realms, samsara nirvana nondual

spirituality is the journey from 1 to 3

nirvana is the end of suffering, it it the transmuting of every bad to its good 

and while we're here nondual is from good to god, your absolute reality

So you  basically agree with the thesis that awakening eliminates all psychological suffering at least ? Because obviously even if you are Lord Krishna himself, you would still feel pain if you stepped your toe ...but there is just no doubling down on the suffering from the mind.

[Someone here]

9 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

Identify with whatever you want 

if I put a nail through your hand and no medical attention you will suffer. Even if you “don’t identify” with it. 
 

However, yes you can learn to feel very good with Toasist inner alchemy, books, self esteem, mastery of life and you mind body in general. Awakening and seeing it’s a dream helps. 
 

I just think saying enlightenment fixes everything is false. It does, and then and doesn’t. 

There is differences between pain and suffering.  I'm meaning mostly psychological suffering not physical stuff like hunger and pain .

Enlightenment is the end of suffering.

Do you see the difference?Enlightenment isn’t the bucket of water that extinguishes the fire of suffering.This is very important to understand. Enlightenment is the choice to stop and the insight that we have the power.The power to put out the fire is ours we only have to stop feeding it.

We think we’re waiting for a blinding insight, after which we’ll stop suffering.

But the insight is that we don’t have to suffer.

[gettoefl]

5 minutes ago, Someone here said:

So you  basically agree with the thesis that awakening eliminates all psychological suffering at least ? Because obviously even if you are Lord Krishna himself, you would still feel pain if you stepped your toe ...but there is just no doubling down on the suffering from the mind.

am i a body or am i beyond a body

can i realize this and embody it?

this is the work

[Thought Art]

If you talk about enlightenment ending suffering but don’t:

1. Eat well

2. Sleep well

3. Breath well 

4. Move well 

5. Money well

6. Think well

7. Behave well

8. Trip well 

etc, you will suffer 

Waking up, is only a single line of development and there are others that matter. A well balanced life is the best antidote to suffering. Be well educated, take care of your mind, body and financials. 
 

If you want to end suffering, do as the Buddha says in the sense he says to study it objectively and develop a deep understanding of its root causes.The reality is to end suffering enlightenment is not the sole solution. 
 

Non-attachment is quality of a developed mind. But, even then… an enlightened mind could, objectively observe his suffering. Be with it, and in that way heal from it while others would not. 
 

Again, all this is very slippery.

Biddhism teachers the principles of right action, right thinking, right eating, etc because an enlightened person realizes if they don’t align themselves with the principles of living well they will suffer.

 

Edited March 13, 2023 by Thought Art

[Someone here]

10 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

am i a body or am i beyond a body

can i realize this and embody it?

this is the work

There’s no easy answer to this question. Are we our bodies, or something else? It’s a complex question that doesn’t have a simple answer. For me, I think we are both our bodies and something else. Our bodies are a part of who we are, but they are not the only thing that makes us who we are. There is also our mind, our soul, and our spirit. All of these things combined make us who we are.