Is it really necessary to get rid of materialistic life desires to awaken?

[KGrimes]

One of the biggest traps that I am in, and have been stuck at for a while now is the understanding of the importance of regular life things and spirituality, more clearly - awakening/enlightenment. 

I have done dozens of trips, meditated, contemplated and reached some kind of awakenings, maybe not complete God realisation, but I have dipped my tongue in the water of Truth and felt the taste of it, I know it's there, that it's always there and it is possible to achieve it.  I tried to find balance - to live materialistic and spiritual life, yet it seems counter-intuitive. It only works if you pursue one or the other fully.

Yet spirituality has allowed me to have a great materialistic life at only the age of 25. I have travelled the world, have a great job and career, partied and explored the world so on and so forth. I have realized this many times, I am happy, but I am not THAT happy, the happiness is not this deep, profound one, but rather sort of an outside happiness, not sure how clear that sounds. I am aware that there's TRUE happiness, TRUE love, and God, here, at all times, yet my ego is just trying to be so busy with everything else that is NOT IT, that it forgets what the truth is. And so it goes in cycles, from a very spiritual cycle where i focus on spirituality, and have big realizations, to coming back to material life and focusing on career or even a deep and fullfiling relationship.

The biggest difference in my life now, is that regardless of how busy I get with work, and regular people life, there's this feeling that it is all just a facade. I thought that maybe I need to do all of this in order to burn trough karma - alcohol, sex, money, travelling, eating etc. so that i truly know what I am missing out once I decide to leave. And there are times when I feel like I have burned through it, but it's not enough, it keeps coming back. I don't think that "burning through karma" is a necessity, i think it's a choice, and the more you burn through it by indulging in it, the harder it gets to get rid of it.  Like you can make a conscious decision based on little experience, that you will not be fulfilled by being rich, or by travelling or by having mindless sex all the time.

And even then, I have studied enough to understand, that an enlightenment experience, awakening is not going to be the end to suffering. It might make my current dream a bit better, but the real goal here is Mahasamadhi. To leave your body on your own terms, and never comeback to the dream, to return to GOD and LOVE forever, and end the cycle of life and birth, to wake up fully, completely, and understand your own magnificent nature.

But then I think, maybe my journey has just started and I will need a few more lifetimes to reach Mahasamadhi? But how can I be sure? Surely, if I know about such thing, there's more... And so the ego just plays and plays with itself, letting go becomes harder and harder the deeper i get...

[gettoefl]

do everything with a burning totality until you see the utter stupidity ...

at which point you will get wholly serious

about singing dancing painting poetry etc.

hope you catch my drift

seems you are doing fantastic as it is so keep on keeping on

[Thought Art]

It’s not necessary to get rid of things in life to awaken. Tantra has a lot of teachings around that. 
 

Awaken, and be rich. Why wouldn’t God want both?!

[KGrimes]

@Thought Art I have a feeling, that it is not meant to be this way in life. Because I have no proof that anyone has achieved this.

How many rich and enlightened humans were/are there on earth? 

The Buddha had to get rid of his riches and wander earth for ages until he became enlightened.

But the there was Osho, I believe he had reached some lower level of enlightenment, maybe not God-realized, but he was enlightened, and technically he was extremely rich, but those riches came from others.

But I am talking not only about riches, because if the only goal was to be Rich Materialistically (money + things) and be also be Enlightened (God-realized), then wouldn't most of the Ultra Rich be Enlightened and could save the world from poverty and hunger, because they would be so abundant materialistically, and also be aware that everything is one. 

Yet it is not that way, and all the richest people in the world are just stuck on extreme levels of Orange and greedyness, with a complete lack of spiritual understanding.

[Leo Gura]

6 hours ago, KGrimes said:

I don't think that "burning through karma" is a necessity, i think it's a choice, and the more you burn through it by indulging in it, the harder it gets to get rid of it.  Like you can make a conscious decision based on little experience, that you will not be fulfilled by being rich, or by travelling or by having mindless sex all the time.

You got it backwards. The more experience you get with all those things the more you will see how silly they are and drop many of your material desires.

Go get rich, have a bunch of sex, and travel all over the world, until you finally get it in your bones that that stuff is not serious happiness.

Edited March 13, 2023 by Leo Gura

[KGrimes]

@Leo Gura This answer was what I always wished for, and secretly been hoping for. Yet now that you say it, it kind of seems scary. How long will it take for me to realize this, utterly, and truly, with no more doubts? I could spend decades pursuing that, until I finally burn through it... Or i may never even be able to burn through everything.

Leo, do you still think, that each person has to burn through different amounts of karma, and maybe some will burn through it extremelly fast (weeks-months), and some extremelly slow (decades,lifetimes)?

Edited March 13, 2023 by KGrimes

[Leo Gura]

33 minutes ago, KGrimes said:

@Leo Gura This answer was what I always wished for, and secretly been hoping for. Yet now that you say it, it kind of seems scary.

Yup

Quote

How long will it take for me to realize this, utterly, and truly, with no more doubts? I could spend decades pursuing that, until I finally burn through it... Or i may never even be able to burn through everything.

Could take decades. But why does it matter? Enjoy the ride regardless. Life is the journey, not a destination.

If you desire sex, enjoy your sex. Don't get all guilty about it.

It is a big mistake to act more developed than you are.

Quote

Leo, do you still think, that each person has to burn through different amounts of karma, and maybe some will burn through it extremelly fast (weeks-months), and some extremelly slow (decades,lifetimes)?

Of course. How else?

Edited March 13, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Thought Art]

@KGrimes Leo? Osho? Sadhguru? 
 

There may be a number of rich people out there who are enlightened but don’t teach. Idk man, I don’t see what how having time and money would make it MORE difficult. Seems the opposite.

[Viswanath]

19 hours ago, KGrimes said:

@Leo Gura This answer was what I always wished for, and secretly been hoping for. Yet now that you say it, it kind of seems scary. How long will it take for me to realize this, utterly, and truly, with no more doubts? I could spend decades pursuing that, until I finally burn through it... Or i may never even be able to burn through everything.

Leo, do you still think, that each person has to burn through different amounts of karma, and maybe some will burn through it extremelly fast (weeks-months), and some extremelly slow (decades,lifetimes)?

Hi there.

Happy to hear your seriousness.

I have a question. Many may ask "Do you believe in God/soul/etc.?", But I won't. It's asking the opposite looks wise in my view. So, "Do you believe in World?"

 

Edited March 14, 2023 by Viswanath

[KGrimes]

@Viswanath What I believe the World is and what i am directly aware of that the World is, is a bit different.

I believe that there is no "World" and that it's all God's imagination.

I have had direct experience of what the World is, but I am yet to confirm that it is truly God's dream as I have not attained the full God-realization

[Boost]

On 2023. 03. 13. at 7:46 PM, Leo Gura said:

You got it backwards. The more experience you get with all those things the more you will see how silly they are and drop many of your material desires.

Go get rich, have a bunch of sex, and travel all over the world, until you finally get it in your bones that that stuff is not serious happiness.

But what if I'm a god of sensuality, and I expanded my awarness about sensuality?
What if I'm a higher entity and my speciality is ruling and power, plus causing calamity anywhere I go?

[Rahra]

There are people born to awaken. No guru or meditation needed. You will awaken in this lifetime no matter what, zero effort.

If you are not born with superior spiritual genes (born spiritually blessed), you will need psychedelics or a guru or hardcore meditation.

Letting go of the materialist life is not enough, you need to be born for this shit, or you need Grace from God. Which is the same thing, if you are born for this, that’s grace.

[Breakingthewall]

You will give up material desires when material desires seem nonsense to you. If you leave them sooner, you'll be a bitter repressed 

but that does not mean that you abandon your spiritual search until you are not interested in the material, the two things are compatible, but the deeper you go, the less that will interest you, which will make you go even deeper 

So the thing is not negative (abandon desires) but positive, go deeper. The desires will get weak naturally 

Edited March 20, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Boost]

39 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

You will give up material desires when material desires seem nonsense to you. 

What is material desire? When I did a retreat and meditated all day long, and I gave up material desires, I had the only desire to surrender and doing self-inquiry. But while doing this I realized that my heart center painfully blocked, then I realized that this is because I did the retreat because of escape from something in daily life, so doing retreat was a "material desire".

[Breakingthewall]

4 minutes ago, Boost said:

What is material desire? When I did a retreat and meditated all day long, and I gave up material desires, I had the only desire to surrender and doing self-inquiry. But while doing this I realized that my heart center painfully blocked, then I realized that this is because I did the retreat because of escape from something in daily life, so doing retreat was a "material desire".

I mean sex, position, appearance. many people are spiritual by status. In the end everything is: please, love me. When you realize that love is inside you, you start looking less outside

[Boost]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

I mean sex, position, appearance. many people are spiritual by status. In the end everything is: please, love me. When you realize that love is inside you, you start looking less outside

But what about that if I motivated by others I still see the oneness. Why should have only "inner motivation"?

[Breakingthewall]

4 minutes ago, Boost said:

But what about that if I motivated by others I still see the oneness. Why should have only "inner motivation"?

I don't say others can't help, just that to search what you are looking for in the others at the end doesn't work. Desire of awakening is desire to search inside yourself to find yourself. To realize that everything is inside yourself 

[Boost]

Leo say "don't try to search for God in your skull, but God is all your visual field." I know it firstly seem that this quote isn't exactly what we are talking about.
So yes, I agree with you that people should realize that "everything is within", pleasure is inside while people seek outside. But it is a plus awakening, it is a plus acknowledgement that the outside is also within me.
 

Edited March 20, 2023 by Boost
English grammar

[Breakingthewall]

3 minutes ago, Boost said:

Leo say "don't try to search for God in your skull, but God is all your visual field."
I know it seem this quote isn't exactly what we are talking about.
So yes, I agree with you that people should realize that "everything is within", pleasure is inside while people seek outside. But is is a plus awakening, it is a plus acknowledgement that the outside is also within me.
 

Real awakening is to realize that you are the reality but to do it full time, not 5 minutes a month with psychedelics. For this to happen is extremely rare imo. 

[vladorion]

You don't need to get rid of them.

Just understanding on a deep level that they won't ultimately fulfill you is enough. I think most people who pursue awakening do, otherwise they wouldn't even be interested in it.