Looks like anti vax was the right call

[Danioover9000]

@ThermalTide

14 hours ago, ThermalTide said:

I can't lie, it cracks me up that now it seems (obviously) it wasn't great for absolutely everyone to get the vax, but to suggest so a couple years back even on this forum meant you were "anti-vax" and declared right wing. 

   The problem is you haven't contemplated enough about the train problem, and having to choose whether a few di or many die. In context this has been addressed here before, there are risks to the vaccine, but the risks of Covid are way worse and of higher volume, so you're stuck choosing which of the two evil outcomes: To vax and risk the side effects, or to not vax and risk the Covid-19 effects, which are far worse than vaccine risks? 

[Salvijus]

19 hours ago, Yimpa said:

What were you expecting? A psychedelic trip?

Permenant god conciousness would've been nice

Edited March 15, 2023 by Salvijus

[Yimpa]

@Salvijus I actually did have a vivid dream the same night I got one of the covid shots. 

I was dreaming that humans were invading my house and were out to kill me (I assume I was isolating myself to avoid COVID). I realized there was no escape since they already invaded, so I talked to my higher self out of desperation. I then realized that what I was really trying to escape from was myself.

(I also take medical cannabis daily, so maybe there was a synergistic effect with the COVID shot to give me such a wild dream) 

[Salvijus]

@Yimpa wild

[Arcangelo]

No jab, no job...

 

[Arcangelo]

 

[mostly harmless]

On 13.3.2023 at 2:46 PM, Leo Gura said:

No! That implies that the risks are equal, which they are not. This is why we have science with rigorous statistical analysis.

Didn't you say multiple times how science (or the establishment in institutions who claim to represent science) is corrupted?

But that is not the case here. That's fortunate. 

Fun fact also someone who has alternative ideas about spirituality warns not to listen to New Agers.

 

On 15.3.2023 at 7:58 AM, Leo Gura said:

Nobody has ever claimed that vax is absolutely great for everyone.

The entire political establishment and mass media have claimed exactly that.

 

On 15.3.2023 at 7:58 AM, Leo Gura said:

If the vax killed 100,000 people, I would still tell you to get vaccinated. Because Covid killed more.

How do you know that Covid killed more? The numbers were completely inflated.

Reasons:

The PCR test can detect certain parts of DNA. It does not say that the DNA is part of a living organism or just dead fragments.

The PCR test is meaningless if too many cycles are used in the process. The original PCR test by Dr. Drosten* in Germany, licensed worldwide, recommended way too many cycles. *The University where Dr. Drosten studied did by the way lose his doctorate thesis, then it re-appeared right after Dr. Drosten had taken a 2 week vacation. The thesis is co-written by Drosten's teacher... can't make this up. 

All labs used different numbers of cycles. If you combine all those numbers into one statistic, then that is unscientific, as you combine numbers measuring with different standards.

Non-symptomatic infections do not exist. If you are infected, your immune system is active. It may not succeed, but it is active. So someone with a positive PCR but no symptoms, is not infected.

People who died of any cause were counted as C19 cases if they had a positive PCR test result even if it was many weeks ago. 

The opposite is the case with people dying after getting the shots. These cases do not count as side effects until after the first 2 weeks of the 2nd shot. That also distorts the statistic.

 

In my direct surroundings, I have seen 2 cases of strokes, 1 cancer, vertigo when combing hair, shoulder pain (painful enough to get surgery). All happened within weeks after the shot.

 

Also note that the immune cells in the nose are separate from the blood. If you have a shot, you may have immunity for a pathogen in your blood. But there is no immunity in your respiratory tract. Obviously, for a disease of the respiratory system, that is not ideal, is it? 

The WHO has published the case fatality rate early on. It is very similar to the flu. In countries that didn't have a strict regime (Sweden, Croatia, Montenegro, Africa, ...) and communities (The Amish in the USA, orthodox jews in Isreal) that did not take any shots, there was no alarming death count.

Now however, after the distribution, there is a significant increase in reported deaths. And that is higher in countries with higher shot rates. New Zealand is a country that had only a miniscule number of cases due to its geographic location and travel restrictions. And NZ has one of the highest rates of shots. And now they have the highest increase in death number since 100 years, as the NZ Herald reported recently.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/new-zealand-records-biggest-increase-in-registered-deaths-in-100-years/BQERSTKIANCKRNNA7IL42RD52U/

I suppose, NZ would have a lot more deaths if they hadn't taken so many shots. ?

 

 

 

[mostly harmless]

On 15.3.2023 at 0:49 PM, Danioover9000 said:

@ThermalTide

   The problem is you haven't contemplated enough about the train problem, and having to choose whether a few die or many die.

That comparison is in principle only valid from a totalitarian perspective. It entails that it is acceptable that people who would not had a risk are damaged for those that were at risk.

This means that society transfers the personal risks of life from some people to other people. 

On that basis I would argue, that everybody who has 2 functioning kidneys should be forced to be available at any time to give up 1 kidney if someone in that state database needs a transplant.

Everybody has to accept and carry their personal risks in life. It is unacceptable to force other people to carry some of that risk. That does not mean that one does not try to protect vulnerable people. But there has to be a limit to this.

 

And that being said, no, C19 was not more dangerous than many other diseases. That by now is proven. If you are invested in believing otherwise, that's fine for me. But that's just ignorant.

[Consept]

Personally ive seen a lot more people with problems from long covid than problems with taking the vaccine

[Devin]

Has anyone known someone with vaccine problems?

[Danioover9000]

@mostly harmless

On 3/21/2023 at 11:29 AM, mostly harmless said:

That comparison is in principle only valid from a totalitarian perspective. It entails that it is acceptable that people who would not had a risk are damaged for those that were at risk.

This means that society transfers the personal risks of life from some people to other people. 

On that basis I would argue, that everybody who has 2 functioning kidneys should be forced to be available at any time to give up 1 kidney if someone in that state database needs a transplant.

Everybody has to accept and carry their personal risks in life. It is unacceptable to force other people to carry some of that risk. That does not mean that one does not try to protect vulnerable people. But there has to be a limit to this.

 

And that being said, no, C19 was not more dangerous than many other diseases. That by now is proven. If you are invested in believing otherwise, that's fine for me. But that's just ignorant.

   The comparison is universally valid and sound, so why're you confining this train problem as only the monopoly of totalitarian regimes and dictators?

   So, because society transfers personal risks of life from one group to another, justifies Anti Vax, not taking vaccines, not wearing masks, not social distancing, not self isolating when sick, and transferring a person's/group's sickness to another person/group?

   Why would you argue that people with 2 kidneys should be forced to be available and give one to if someone in that state needs one? Why are you conflating Covid-19, a highly infectious virus, that spread so much it became a pandemic with larger scale effects and risks, to issues of donor transplants and organ failure of the kidneys? Covid-19 severely effects the lungs, heart, brain and bones of a person infected, but not kidney failures.

   So, because everybody has to carry their personal risks in life, justifies an Anti vaxxer, sick with Covid-19, who didn't get vaccinated, doesn't wear masks, does not practice social distancing, to infect another person? Why is it unacceptable to force other people to behave in ways that mitigate risks for all involved?

   So, Covid-19 is not more dangerous than many other diseases? Does this mean that I have an excuse to not take a vaccine, not wear masks, not practice safe distancing, and infect other people with my coughing and sneezing at them?

   Hypothetically, because Covid-19 is not more dangerous than the mutated Cordyceps Fungus, when I am bitten by a Runner, or stalker, or clicker, I don't have to worry about taking a cure, or a vaccine, or wear a mask, or practice social distancing? I am in the ethical and moral right to, when I become a runner or stalker, be anti vax, go through the stages of infection, bit a person and infect them with the mutated cordyceps fungus within TLOU1 and TLOU2 world? After all, I'm already infected, turning into a fungus zombie so who cares if my personal actions effect other people right? Does this also mean I get to bite hot chicks too?

[Danioover9000]

@Consept

33 minutes ago, Consept said:

Personally ive seen a lot more people with problems from long covid than problems with taking the vaccine

   How many people did you come across with more problems with long term Covid versus with vaccine?

Edited March 24, 2023 by Danioover9000

[Danioover9000]

@Devin

29 minutes ago, Devin said:

Has anyone known someone with vaccine problems?

   Yes, I do.

[Devin]

7 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Devin

   Yes, I do.

Mind telling about their problem?

[Consept]

5 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Consept

   How many people did you come across with more problems with long term Covid versus with vaccine?

tbh i dont know of anyone with long term effects from the vaccine, potentially i could be biased and maybe dont remember them or maybe people dont share because of the stigma, but short term as in for a week or so after taking the vaccine I can remember quite a lot of people got sick, headaches etc but since that first week nothing else. In terms of long covid quite a few speaking with a friend who coaches youth football (soccer), he said he had it and also many of the teenagers he coached were affected by it, aside from that a lot more than ive heard have had problems with the vaccine. Also I was in hospital for something unrelated during the pandemic and speaking to the nurses a lot of them got covid and had long term effects the specific nurse I talked to knew around 10 or so colleagues and patients personally that had died, he himself got covid and was seriously ill for over a month. 

So thinking about from my personal experience its not even comparable. 

[Israfil]

On 15/03/2023 at 11:14 AM, Yimpa said:

@Salvijus I actually did have a vivid dream the same night I got one of the covid shots. 

I was dreaming that humans were invading my house and were out to kill me (I assume I was isolating myself to avoid COVID). I realized there was no escape since they already invaded, so I talked to my higher self out of desperation. I then realized that what I was really trying to escape from was myself.

(I also take medical cannabis daily, so maybe there was a synergistic effect with the COVID shot to give me such a wild dream) 

I had a very strong fever in my first shot. I had hallucinations completely indistinguishable from reality. I freaked out for a second, but my lsd experiences paid off and I just handled it. hahahahahahaha

[Carl-Richard]

4 hours ago, Israfil said:

I had a very strong fever in my first shot. I had hallucinations completely indistinguishable from reality. I freaked out for a second, but my lsd experiences paid off and I just handled it. hahahahahahaha

Damn, what did you see? Last night before I went to bed, I had my window open, and I stared out into the misty and dimly lit scenery over by some buildings, and I couldn't make out exactly what I was looking at, but with my sleepy brain, I figured I was looking at some weird giant humanoid creature with long arms, like a character from a video game, swaying from side to side. I knew that it was probably just a tree or some other object obscured by the mist, but it was fun to see how my brain was able to create such a consistent and fairly solid image of something that was certainly not there.

Edited March 25, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Dr Palmer Aldritch]

On 3/12/2023 at 9:28 PM, supremeyingyang said:

We didn't knew what the Virus could become back when vaccination started. Now we can't know what would have happened if no one would have been vaccinated. Discussing 'What if' might be interesting but for going on as societies, groups ad people that is useless, I don't do that. You can.

We can discuss how people treated each other. We can discuss statistical evidence of damages from vaccinations. We can discuss people overreacted based on data analysis. Etc.

But it won't change one thing. The Taboo belief Question of 'Was the Virus really that harmful?' is a sociological Question, not a hard fact. If people treat it as true, it become true (Thomas Theorem). Now we have two minority groups: hardcore 'C19 = harmful' and hardcore 'C19 != harmful' - and a majority that just goes on with their lives. The strive for truth of one group insults the other and vice versa. BUT... We won't solve the Conflict ultimately 'just like that' (SEE ! WE were right!!), maybe Historians of future Generations can paint a more neutral Picture. But the problem remains.. you can't know what has NOT happened.

I don't know.  We can measure pretty concretely how many people died from it:  well over a million in the USA.  That doesn't sound 'sociological' or subjective at all.  I Think the right has so saturated the zeitgeist with antivaxxer bullshit that it becomes easy to go from 'can't we all just get along?' with both siderism.  No. its pretty clear.  getting sick from covid sucks donkey balls, and it killed a lot of people.  We are also starting to reckon with long covid.  Apparently, it also sucks.

[supremeyingyang]

2 hours ago, Dr Palmer Aldritch said:

I don't know.  We can measure pretty concretely how many people died from it:  well over a million in the USA.  That doesn't sound 'sociological' or subjective at all. 

Would never argue against that, I vaxxed too. The problem is now we can't prove that the vax was the way out or if the virus would have faded in harm.  Anti-Vaxxers jump at the opportunity, largely because their running on faith and emotion. One had to decide in 2021: IF estimated people saved by vax > estimated people die by vax. Do it. ELSE. Do not.

You know what my conclusion was and what I would have recommended to other people: Vax.

We can talk a lot about it, if you want. I have a lot of nuances.

2 hours ago, Dr Palmer Aldritch said:

I Think the right has so saturated the zeitgeist with antivaxxer bullshit that it becomes easy to go from 'can't we all just get along?' with both siderism.  No. its pretty clear.

lol, had you ever a fight with your romantic partner? You can be 100% right and still lose. You can't just strongarm people into doing x and expect them to love that, even though it might be better for them.

Edited March 28, 2023 by supremeyingyang
edit

[Consept]

5 hours ago, supremeyingyang said:

The problem is now we can't prove that the vax was the way out or if the virus would have faded in harm.

I dont think it really matters tbh with the information they had it was way too much of a risk to suggest that people dont get vaxxed and just hope that it fades away, whereas the risk of actually taking the vax is so negligible its barely comparable. Even if lets say we find out the better option was to not vax and that it wouldnt make any difference in hindsight, why even take that risk, like if it has a chance to help why not do it? The only reason people really had was emotional in that there was a distrust of the medical establishment and the government but thats almost a separate issue to the actual facts.