ayahuasca Pill

[Leo Gura]

Just now, Arthogaan said:

What if the additional "impure" chemicals coupled with strong intention of the shaman that you allow, creates some kind of mechanism of binding trauma and emotions to vomit which you then discard from yourself. Intention and rituals are powerful tools, I think you are a little bit too reductionistic here.

And what if you are kidding yourself?

Nothing is stopping you from setting intention for your trip.

It's like you guys are rationalizing an abusive relationship: He hurts me but it's good for me.

[max duewel]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

And what if you are kidding yourself?

Nothing is stopping you from setting intention for your trip.

It's like you guys are rationalizing an abusive relationship: He hurts me but it's good for me.

Im not set on this one.
I have to try it alone with pure chemicals to be sure.

 

[Arthogaan]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

And what if you are kidding yourself?

Nothing is stopping you from setting intention for your trip.

It's like you guys are rationalizing an abusive relationship: He hurts me but it's good for me.

I actually agree. But problem with rituals and strong intentions is to convince your subconscious as much as possible, and going to a jungle with shaman and vomiting is quite a scene for the subcosncious I believe.

And some people will never be able to create such a strong intention within the calm of their house. 

 

[flowboy]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

No, and I have no interest in it.

So you admit that you don't know what you are talking about?

I also don't know.

I don't have a dog in this fight really. I've never tried Ayahuasca.

I'm often skeptical that it will be that great or that different.

When friends tell me that it can heal their traumas, I say: come back when you're actually symptom free and tell me that.

But I will try it, very soon.

And my opinion is that experience is king.

If you haven't tried it, you don't know.

I thought you were all about that, Leo.

Seems like your open-mindedness ends wherever it involves the theme of needing and trusting other people.

Edited March 13, 2023 by flowboy

[Jodistrict]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

BS. If you took pure chemicals you wouldn't be vomitting. People love to romanticize their vomiting, as if it's something noble and important..

Vomiting or purging is a common indigenous health practice in the Amazon for good reasons.  They give purgative plants to their children to vomit up parasites and worms.  Purging is a big part of Kambo practice.  Huancahui sacha makes you vomit for about 6 hours.  Since their culture is not reductive, they consider purging of toxins to be both physical and psychological.  The old reductive sciences can’t make sense of this.  But maybe the new systems thinking will.

[Carl-Richard]

On 11.3.2023 at 8:53 AM, Jodistrict said:

So, if you are taking ayahausca pill, you are treating it as just a chemical and not getting the benefits of the shamanic process.   That’s not automatically bad.  It is just different.  And it is typical of the Western mindset: don’t bother me or ask me to do anything challenging, just give me the pill because my narrow Western mind can only acknowledge chemicals as being important, and I laugh at anything else.  

Based. You want an entourage of disruptive practices to go along with the main event. That is how you increase the odds of a deeper transformation taking place. And this is actually supported by Western science, just the very cutting edge of cognitive science.

Edited March 13, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Arthogaan said:

I actually agree. But problem with rituals and strong intentions is to convince your subconscious as much as possible, and going to a jungle with shaman and vomiting is quite a scene for the subcosncious I believe.

And some people will never be able to create such a strong intention within the calm of their house. 

The excuses you guys concoct are quite something.

41 minutes ago, flowboy said:

So you admit that you don't know what you are talking about?

Don't get smartassy with me.

I know more than you can imagine.

10 minutes ago, Jodistrict said:

Vomiting or purging is a common indigenous health practice in the Amazon for good reasons.  They give purgative plants to their children to vomit up parasites and worms.  Purging is a big part of Kambo practice.  Huancahui sacha makes you vomit for about 6 hours.  Since their culture is not reductive, they consider purging of toxins to be both physical and psychological.  The old reductive sciences can’t make sense of this.  But maybe the new systems thinking will.

Do not romanticize these shaman. They only do the things they do because they lack better tools.

I am tired of arguing with you guys. Live in your own ignorance.

Edited March 13, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Vibes]

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Various aspects of mastering your mind.

@Leo Gura Thank you for changing your mind on this one.

[halfknots]

There's utility in everything. Want a traditional experience in the jungle with ayahuasca, a curandero, and all that? Great, go for it. Want to take an MAOI and DMT in capsule form in the comfort of your own home? Super. The two systems aren't mutually exclusive and there is no objective hierarchy of value. Follow your curiosity, work with what's accessible and what resonates with you. It's simple. Just follow your curiosity with courage and determination.

What matters is that you DO IT, whatever it is. Go all the way, safely, over and over again. Integrate and embody the wisdom you encounter in those transcendent states. Live in Love and Beauty and Freedom.

[Leo Gura]

You can eat a filet mignon off a plate with a knife and fork, or you can throw it in your backyard and eat it off the dirt like a dog. Up to you.

Edited March 13, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Salvijus]

"Aya has a spirit that can teach u things" is the main argument i see being used in their favor. It's hard to debunk this unless u properly understand what that means. If it's true, then it's quite esoteric and advanced topic that is hard to understand. Usually people just brush it off as bs and that's the end of their counter-arguments lol

Edited March 13, 2023 by Salvijus

[Jodistrict]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The excuses you guys concoct are quite something.

Don't get smartassy with me.

I know more than you can imagine.

Do not romanticize these shaman. They only do the things they do because they lack better tools.

I am tired of arguing with you guys. Live in your own ignorance.

They have more tools than we do and a much longer history of use.   Ayahuasca is considered the master plant, but there are hundreds of other plant medicines that the West has never heard of.  The Shipibo tribe have developed sophisticated psychologies and methods.   Psychedelics are still illegal in most of the Western world.  Until recently, there has been very little interest or research.  Where does their claim to unearned knowledge come from?   Or is it just ethnocentrism?

https://www.cayashobo.com/master-plant-dieta/#:~:text=– What is Master Plant Dieta,of a master healing plant.

Edited March 13, 2023 by Jodistrict

[bambi]

1 hour ago, Jodistrict said:

They have more tools than we do and a much longer history of use.   Ayahuasca is considered the master plant, but there are hundreds of other plant medicines that the West has never heard of.  The Shipibo tribe have developed sophisticated psychologies and methods.   Psychedelics are still illegal in most of the Western world.  Until recently, there has been very little interest or research.  Where does their claim to unearned knowledge come from?   Or is it just ethnocentrism?

https://www.cayashobo.com/master-plant-dieta/#:~:text=– What is Master Plant Dieta,of a master healing plant.

 

None of this addresses the fundemental point from Leo: that the rites rituals and impurities are a complete red herring when it comes to the efficacy of the pyschoactive substance.

Your basically giving weighting to tradition for no other reason other then it makes you feel good to do so and romanticize it.

Do a split test of both methods and try to remove your original bias, its not complicated is it.

How many years theyve been doing it, how native it is, how secret its been, how ingrained in their culture it is, how many songs and dances and attire they have around it: is completely independant to the efficacy of the compounds being used and you should test for placebo and confirmation bias.

 

[Pudgey]

Ayahuasca is far superior done by yourself where you have to face God's wrath 1 on 1. That wrath leads to some of the most profound God Realizations because where there Is fear, there is God Realization! No shaman required!

Shamanism is a replica of your fear and profound illusion, so you fool yourself and pedestal human / shaman. It's another mechanism of Infinity keeping itself from Infinity. Literally, nothing is superior to you, God. God can only teach itself and is the ultimate teacher. The highest nature of Ayahuasca and psychedelics is loving all aspects of yourself as God 

[Rigel]

Has anyone here done it with mimosa hostilis and harmala? 

Edited March 13, 2023 by Rigel

[Jodistrict]

4 hours ago, bambi said:

 

None of this addresses the fundemental point from Leo: that the rites rituals and impurities are a complete red herring when it comes to the efficacy of the pyschoactive substance.

Actually, these practices are completely consistent with “set and setting”  which has been widely accepted by psychedelic therapy.  The context is important.   The really futile thing to do is pop pills solo with no context and pretend you are a psychonaut.   Westerners who free themselves from the mind prison of ethnocentrism are discovering that other cultures have developed sophisticated practices for using these substances over the course of hundreds of years of experience.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_and_setting
 

[Leo Gura]

My methods are superior to any shaman. Which is why I will be teaching them in my new course.

[Greatnestwithin]

23 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

My methods are superior to any shaman. Which is why I will be teaching them in my new course.

@Leo Gura what will be the price of this course, any idea?

[Juan]

27 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

My methods are superior to any shaman. Which is why I will be teaching them in my new course.

How could you claim that if you said that you’ve never been in a ayahuasca ceremony? 

Edited March 14, 2023 by Juan

[Sempiternity]

25 minutes ago, Juan said:

How could you claim that if you said that you’ve never been in a ayahuasca ceremony? 

I don't need to attend a Mormon convention to know I wouldn't get anything out of it.