ayahuasca Pill

[Sempiternity]

I've done about 10 Ayahuasca ceremonies. Some with Navaho Native Americans, some with Shamans from Mexico. I regretted it every single time. Saying I'd never do it again, but would come back, thinking it would be different if I tried it again. Only thing I got out of it, was thousands of dollars lighter ($200 a night, and they suggest 3 to 4 nights). The biggest downside is distractions. I can't go deep in a room filled with 30 people making noise, puking, crying, talking, and their very presence. And most Shamans hesitate to give you enough to really go deep, cause they do not want to deal with it if it goes south. Leo is right, trip alone or with a trip sitter, devoid of any distractions. Doing these group things is for ego, not for breaking through/Awakening.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Sempiternity

[Leo Gura]

40 minutes ago, Juan said:

How could you claim that if you said that you’ve never been in a ayahuasca ceremony? 

How come you don't eat your food off the floor? Maybe it will taste better.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

45 minutes ago, Greatnestwithin said:

@Leo Gura what will be the price of this course, any idea?

Haven't decided yet.

[Psychic]

33 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

How come you don't eat your food off the floor?

?? that’s hilarious 

[Juan]

8 hours ago, Sempiternity said:

I've done about 10 Ayahuasca ceremonies. Some with Navaho Native Americans, some with Shamans from Mexico. I regretted it every single time. Saying I'd never do it again, but would come back, thinking it would be different if I tried it again. Only thing I got out of it, was thousands of dollars lighter ($200 a night, and they suggest 3 to 4 nights). The biggest downside is distractions. I can't go deep in a room filled with 30 people making noise, puking, crying, talking, and their very presence. And most Shamans hesitate to give you enough to really go deep, cause they do not want to deal with it if it goes south. Leo is right, trip alone or with a trip sitter, devoid of any distractions. Doing these group things is for ego, not for breaking through/Awakening.

Sorry to hear that, I’ve been also to 10+ ceremonies and my results has been the contrary, I had released a TON, I was dealing with hardcore depression and other stuff. In many occasions my purging experience went south af so I think the people I worked with they handled pretty well I would said. The distraction part I can understand you, still, It doesn’t discount that there is good sessions depending also the center.

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

How come you don't eat your food off the floor? Maybe it will taste better.

Maybe, still doesn’t answer my question. 

To be clear I’m not discrediting at all doing it alone and with a pill even, I’m open for it. I just asked how could you be so confident of something when you never put a feet on a actual ceremony with a shaman and you claim you know them all by making that statement, also it doesn’t have to be on a group, it could be even a 1 on 1.

[Jodistrict]

13 hours ago, Sempiternity said:

I've done about 10 Ayahuasca ceremonies. Some with Navaho Native Americans, some with Shamans from Mexico. I regretted it every single time. Saying I'd never do it again, but would come back, thinking it would be different if I tried it again. Only thing I got out of it, was thousands of dollars lighter ($200 a night, and they suggest 3 to 4 nights). The biggest downside is distractions. I can't go deep in a room filled with 30 people making noise, puking, crying, talking, and their very presence. And most Shamans hesitate to give you enough to really go deep, cause they do not want to deal with it if it goes south. Leo is right, trip alone or with a trip sitter, devoid of any distractions. Doing these group things is for ego, not for breaking through/Awakening.

The noise is a distraction in a group.  That is true.  But I wouldn’t recommend anyone go in a room with more than 15 people max.   In an outdoor ceremony, you can have more people and the noise isn’t as much of a bother.   The purpose of the group is to have a group healing.  There is a group energy and you affect each other.   The individualism in America isn’t good and we need each other.  That’s why I do everything in Latin America, mostly Mexico, because they are still community oriented societies.

[Breakingthewall]

You talk about different things, that's why you don't agree. Some speak of healing, for which the group is useful, and other of transcendence and God, for which the group is an obstacle.

[Jodistrict]

32 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

You talk about different things, that's why you don't agree. Some speak of healing, for which the group is useful, and other of transcendence and God, for which the group is an obstacle.

The ceremonies in Latin America focus on healing:  “sana, sana, sana, cura, cura, cura”.   But, separating healing and spirituality into two categories is an artificial  left brain construct.

[Breakingthewall]

2 minutes ago, Jodistrict said:

The ceremonies in Latin America focus on healing:  “sana, sana, sana, cura, cura, cura”.   But, separating healing and spirituality into two categories is an artificial  left brain construct.

there are people who do not need healing but who want to delve into reality. healing is very social, all the wounds come from the other. There comes a time when there is no other or wounds, it is time to go deep. So yes, I would say there are two categories of spirituality.

[Socrates]

On 3/11/2023 at 3:22 AM, Osaid said:

Of course people will resist when their traditions are threatened. Ego 101.

I don't think it's impossible to gain a positive experience from a substance without a shaman, so I mostly perceive it as BS gatekeeping.

You also get a good taste of these people's epistemology from that top comment claiming "all pharmaceutical companies = bad and corrupt".

The problem with this statement is you judge something you don't understand.  You don't know what it takes to make an ayahuasca ceremony so with the very little information you have you boil it down to ego. If you actually look at it you don't know what role the shaman plays into it, and your simplistic mind wants to rationalize it as "gatekeeping". He may play a role he may not, it isn't relevant, what I'm pointing out is you jumping to conclusions based on assumptions and a lack of facts and understanding.

[Osaid]

14 minutes ago, Socrates said:

He may play a role he may not, it isn't relevant, what I'm pointing out is you jumping to conclusions based on assumptions and a lack of facts and understanding.

I'm not making assumptions. I never said whether shamans are effective or ineffective.

The sentiment is that ayahuasca shouldn't be turned into a pill because there is no shaman that comes with a pill. This is not an equitable position. This is gatekeeping because it says that it shouldn't be possible to take ayahuasca without a shamanic ritual.

Edited March 15, 2023 by Osaid

[Socrates]

@flowboy Im happy someone actually gets it in here. 

Leo Is stuck in materialism unless he is under the influence. No understanding of energy nor the mechanics of a ritual and claims his rituals are better. 

That's the equivalent of learning in math class 1+1=2 and ditching all your teachers and saying:" I know math better than everyone now".  It is laughable, you barely got started ?

I love psychs but people misuse them by judging progress by their peaks. If your baseline doesn't move you are SPINNING YOUR FUCKING WHEELS ?

[MsNobody]

@Socrates I would think that he should try ayahuasca at least once to see how it is, like original style deep in the jungle with indigenous people, and only THEN he could disregard the work of the shaman, the purge and all that comes with a proper ceremony. He is the ones who always says we should investigate everything..

It's really a shame to reduce it to a pill and think that it's the same. Maybe he is just scared of throwing up. 

I like the end of the book Cosmic Serpent, where Jeremy Narby gives a talk to the indigenous people explaining what he had discovered about the science of ayahuasca and one of the indigenous raises his hand in the back of the room and asks "what took you so long?" 

It's so impressive the amount of wisdom that the jungle/ indigenous people carry.

 

[Juan]

35 minutes ago, MsNobody said:

@Socrates I would think that he should try ayahuasca at least once to see how it is, like original style deep in the jungle with indigenous people, and only THEN he could disregard the work of the shaman, the purge and all that comes with a proper ceremony. He is the ones who always says we should investigate everything..

It's really a shame to reduce it to a pill and think that it's the same. Maybe he is just scared of throwing up. 

I like the end of the book Cosmic Serpent, where Jeremy Narby gives a talk to the indigenous people explaining what he had discovered about the science of ayahuasca and one of the indigenous raises his hand in the back of the room and asks "what took you so long?" 

It's so impressive the amount of wisdom that the jungle/ indigenous people carry.

 

+1

[flowboy]

On 14/03/2023 at 7:19 AM, Leo Gura said:

How come you don't eat your food off the floor? Maybe it will taste better.

@Leo Gura  Great argument. Almost as good as the "smartassy" deflection.

If hordes and hordes of people said eating food off the floor is safe and tastes a lot better, then a truly open-minded person will actually try it, or maintain an agnostic position until they have.

Edited March 15, 2023 by flowboy

[flowboy]

In Europe there's actually ayahuasca ceremonies where there's no added DMT leaf. Just the vine.

And it still works.

How do you explain that, if it were all about the DMT

Edited March 15, 2023 by flowboy

[Leo Gura]

21 minutes ago, flowboy said:

If hordes and hordes of people

I have no interest in what hordes and hordes of people consider good.

Edited March 15, 2023 by Leo Gura

[flowboy]

Well, I give up

 

Apparently the Ayahuasca Pill is more of a contentious, dividing, family-feud-inducing issue than the vaccine.

 

Should we mandate the ayahuasca pill for every citizen over 18?

I vote yes.

[Pudgey]

@flowboy At that point, the Ayahuasca without DMT it's not being used for spiritual awakening, just personal development. DMT is key here. A truly open-minded person would see through traditions and actually be understanding that Ayahuasca can be done without a Shaman. Now, will the Ayahuasca pill come with flaws? Sure! But, let's not think for a second that a Shaman is needed. The logic is equivalent to saying you need a web developer to launch a website. It's obvious that you don't! I mean, look at your website! <3 

This human spiritual elitism is weak and extremely biased. 

@MsNobody Nothing is impressive about a Shaman raising his hand and speaking words. Respectfully, appealing to a Shaman is spiritually weak. That's including all of their books and most of their words. But because they are indigenous, their words are of "wisdom?." It's funny how African Shamans don't get that same level of respect or appeal to authority and sell the least courses and ceremonies on Iboga. in fact, they also sell Iboga for your own personal use - for the fraction of the price of Ayahuasca ceremonies! No beer-belly Shaman is needed! 

Purging like a monkey means nothing - it's just another way to pedastilize Shamans. Yes, you will feel great after it - but that feeling of accomplishment will only will last for a few weeks. We all know the reason why you went to an Ayahuasca ceremony - you talk too much! <3 

I've taken more Ayahuasca than you have and haven't purged a single time. I've taken Ayahuasca for 30 days straight, each day. Then did it again for another 30 days. The TRUE Shaman is the one who made the Ayahuasca so cleanly and lovingly for my own personal use! 

I've broken through so many human barriers, I see why people prefer ceremonies! It's the easiest way out of TRUE spiritual development, which is eliminating the human and the human fears. THE REAL PURGING process is facing all of your FEARS. Most of you wouldn't take Ayahuasca by yourself. Let alone take Ayahuasca while in a haunted house!

Edited March 15, 2023 by Pudgey

[Leo Gura]

When I watch videos of shaman ceremonies with the toad, I cringe.

And I went out of my way to do the toad just to prove how inferior it is to pure 5-MeO-DMT.

Edited March 15, 2023 by Leo Gura