Someone advanced spiritually was an asshole to me

[Nilsi]

4 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Less integrated = less conscious.

Yes, but it's not like there is a limit to consciousness.

Sure you can experience absolute consciousness, but that doesn't mean that you reach some kind of ceiling.

5 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Do you think unconscious people act a certain way?

In some ways yes, in some ways no - same goes for conscious people.

You can employ certain litmus tests e.g. @Inliytened1's suggestion of checking for flexibility - but there are still infinite phenotypes that low or high consciousness could take on.

[Carl-Richard]

22 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

Yes, but it's not like there is a limit to consciousness.

Sure you can experience absolute consciousness, but that doesn't mean that you reach some kind of ceiling.

In some ways yes, in some ways no - same goes for conscious people.

You can employ certain litmus tests e.g. @Inliytened1's suggestion of checking for flexibility - but there are still infinite phenotypes that low or high consciousness could take on.

There are certainly slight differences within the high consciousness range, and a highly conscious person knows when it's appropriate to act viciously and when it's not, etc. But there is a limit to that range, and I think one example of that limit is when somebody is consistently acting like shit, and people will tell you when that happens.

Who would ever want to consistently treat themselves like shit? Not many people. What happens when you're highly conscious? You're more aware of things, you experience the world through a broader scope, you feel other people more deeply, almost as if they are yourself. So given these criteria, what does it take to consistently treat somebody else like shit? You would have to be unaware of them, unable to feel them like yourself, i.e. you would have to be unconscious.

Let's say a conscious person is more in control of their actions than the average person. What conscious person would consciously choose to act in a way that makes most other people hate you? Certainly if there is an alternative way to achieve your goals, why act that way?

Edited March 10, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Nilsi]

13 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

There are certainly slight differences within the high consciousness range, and a highly conscious person knows when it's appropriate to act viciously and when it's not, etc. But there is a limit to that range, and I think one example of that limit is when somebody is consistently acting like shit, and people will tell you when that happens.

Who would ever want to consistently treat themselves like shit? Not many people. What happens when you're highly conscious? You're more aware of things, you experience the world through a broader scope, you feel other people more deeply, almost as if they are yourself. So given these criteria, what does it take to consistently treat somebody else like shit? You would have to be unaware of them, unable to feel them like yourself, i.e. you would have to be unconscious.

Let's say a conscious person is more in control of their actions than the average person. What conscious person would consciously choose to act in a way that makes most other people hate you? Certainly if there is an alternative way to achieve your goals, why act that way?

I'd say the exact opposite is true.

The more conscious you are, the more any notions of evil and with that your conscience, anxieties, bad feelings etc. drop away.

Not saying that's necessarily a level of consciousness appropriate and desirable for a human being, but it's true nonetheless.

Even in the absence of awakening experiences, this is easily derivative from simple logic - it's just not a very pleasant insight, hence your avoidance of it.

Edited March 10, 2023 by Nilsi

[Carl-Richard]

1 minute ago, Nilsi said:

I'd say the exact opposite is true.

The more conscious you are, the more any notions of evil and with that your conscience, anxieties, bad feelings etc. drop away.

It's not that they drop away. It's that you become a fully authentic embodiment of these things without having to consult your self-referential narrative to maintain them.

 

3 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

Not saying that's necessarily a level of consciousness appropriate and desirable for a human being, but it's true nonetheless.

Even in the absence of awakening experiences, this is easily derivative from simple logic - it's just not a very pleasant insight, hence your avoidance of it.

Morality is in our DNA. The denial of morality is done on the level of abstraction.

[Nilsi]

4 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

The denial of morality is done on the level of abstraction.

The denial of consciousness is done on the level of morality .

On a more serious note - you're just wrong, I'm sorry.

Morality is a function of survival and you can directly access mystical states of consciousness that are beyond survival. 

Edited March 10, 2023 by Nilsi

[Nilsi]

9 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

It's not that they drop away. It's that you become a fully authentic embodiment of these things without having to consult your self-referential narrative to maintain them.

 

Morality is in our DNA. The denial of morality is done on the level of abstraction.

I feel like you're very much a religious thinker (and I mean this in the most charitable sense).

God's Love isn't what we humans consider loving or nice - it's completely impartial and that's what makes it Love with a capital L.

Read the book of Job in the bible - that might give you some insight into this.

Edited March 10, 2023 by Nilsi

[Gesundheit2]

3 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

A big sign of spiritual advancement is flexibility.   You can be many things - your identity isn't set in stone.  If he didn't display any flexibility, he probably isn't that advanced or awake at all.

I like this.

3 hours ago, Nilsi said:

It's not about being an asshole and treating others poorly - it's about seeing through these relative notions.

Yet he was an asshole and treated the dude poorly. So in this case, it was about just that and not really about seeing through relative notions. If he saw through them he would have acted differently. But he didn't act differently, so he didn't see through anything.

[Gesundheit2]

53 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

The more conscious you are, the more any notions of evil and with that your conscience, anxieties, bad feelings etc. drop away.

Animals are low consciousness and they seem to fit this criterion.

[Gesundheit2]

47 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

Morality is a function of survival and you can directly access mystical states of consciousness that are beyond survival. 

There is no consciousness without survival. So there is no consciousness without morality.

[Nilsi]

8 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

There is no consciousness without survival. So there is no consciousness without morality.

Yes there is consciousness without survival. 

Additionally there is survival without morality.

So you're not just wrong, you're extra wrong.

[Ulax]

@LSD-Rumi The guy probably hasn't done his shadow work. So is still relatively unconscious and acting out the same destructive patterns they always have.

That said, I'm guessing this post was in part devised as a subtle way of getting your own back on this person. That's understandable to me, if it is the case. However, ultimately doesn't seem like a reliable relationship conflict strategy to me. In future once you see a red flag, I'd recommend just terminating the conversation asap. You can just make up some random excuse ending it, and then jut be firm in that frame.

[Gesundheit2]

3 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

Yes there is consciousness without survival. 

Prove it. Show us. Don't just spit dogma.

3 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

Additionally there is survival without morality.

Again, prove it. Show us. Don't just spit dogma.

Survival is moral by definition. If you drop your morality, you will drop dead. And morality is not limited to religion. It's how you know that food is good and poop is bad.

3 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

So you're not just wrong, you're extra wrong.

Lol. We'll see about that.

[Jodistrict]

If you see someone as spiritually advanced, you are already playing into a con game.  Observe how infinitely tricky the human ego can be.  

[Nilsi]

26 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

Prove it. Show us. Don't just spit dogma.

Again, prove it. Show us. Don't just spit dogma.

Survival is moral by definition. If you drop your morality, you will drop dead. And morality is not limited to religion. It's how you know that food is good and poop is bad.

Lol. We'll see about that.

lol

You're the one spitting dogma.

I'm talking from direct experience, which is why your little song and dance is so ridiculous to me. 

You deny my experience and then tell me I'm the one with burden of proof? Give me a break.

[LSD-Rumi]

28 minutes ago, Ulax said:

@LSD-Rumi The guy probably hasn't done his shadow work. So is still relatively unconscious and acting out the same destructive patterns they always have.

That said, I'm guessing this post was in part devised as a subtle way of getting your own back on this person. That's understandable to me, if it is the case. However, ultimately doesn't seem like a reliable relationship conflict strategy to me. In future once you see a red flag, I'd recommend just terminating the conversation asap. You can just make up some random excuse ending it, and then jut be firm in that frame.

No it is not hate, I am just confused a bit. I totally forgot him. If I want to hurt him I would have mentioned his name, but I am way above that

[vladorion]

The idea that your spiritual evolution is completely disconnected from your behaviour is ludicrous.

If you've experienced some profound states but are not embodying that then you just experienced some profound states. You're not more evolved than others because you took some substance and had some deep experiences. In fact, you may be more delusional than them if you now believe you're more evolved and justify acting out your egoic tendencies with ideas such as "There is no evil", "It's all Love" or some other similar bullshit.

[vladorion]

13 hours ago, LSD-Rumi said:

Hi

I want to discuss a recent event that happened with one of the forum members here. He basically sent a message to me asking for my experience with acid. I told him multiple times I was mentally ill now and I cannot discuss this now. Anyways I decided to talk to him. I started discussing some of the strange thing I experienced. I felt a certain feel of ego inflation to be honest, but I was depressed and mentally ill and I was in a very bad state. Anyways, he said meh this is nothing. I know he was tessting me but I wrote, you are either advanced or a an idiot. He said that he was testing me and I failed. He was harsh in general in his style. I wrote to him that  you need to be more gentle and I was mentally ill and not in my best attitude.

Anyways, recently I made a post discussing some material I discoveres called PEA. he wrote to He doesn't trust anything I wrote in avery harsh way. I said to him I am mentally ill but I am not a child rapist, and that he needs to be more gentle with people. I also wrote that people should do their own research before they try it.

To be honest, he hurt me a lot consider I was very sensitive in that period. Now in this state I am in, I feel awesome and confident, so I sent a message to him, explaining my experience and advicing him to be more gentle. He didn't say anything and left the conversation.

So my question is,  how can a person be so spiritually develop and be an asshole in the sametime. I know it is not necessarly related but the more work I don in spirituality, the more related I think they are.

So what do you think guys?

TLTR: A guy in this forum was an asshole to me, and I am confused.

Why do you assume he's so spiritually developed? You may be more developed than him, for all you know.

[Ulax]

1 hour ago, LSD-Rumi said:

No it is not hate, I am just confused a bit. I totally forgot him. If I want to hurt him I would have mentioned his name, but I am way above that

@LSD-Rumi Okay. Noted. Maybe go learn about personality disorders.

This sort of behaviour from this other user does not surprise me in the least bit considering my understanding of personality disorders. The level of delusion some of these people are in is astounding, i.e. an NPD person. They'll literally believe they are the second coming of christ, and will use anything they can to justify it, unconsciously.

[Carl-Richard]

4 hours ago, Nilsi said:

The denial of consciousness is done on the level of morality .

No, just morality on the level of abstraction.

 

4 hours ago, Nilsi said:

On a more serious note - you're just wrong, I'm sorry.

Morality is a function of survival and you can directly access mystical states of consciousness that are beyond survival. 

Yeah, and I'm saying morality is on our DNA, so it's intrinsically linked to survival. Mystical states are in a sense beyond survival, but to the degree the mystic is tied to their human body and surrounding society, their state of consciousness will generally be in service of it. That is the insight of the Bodhisattva. It's of course possible to "neglect" your own body in such states, but this will generally be a conscious decision and as a part of a disruptive practice (asceticism, renunciation, etc.), and it doesn't really hurt other people.

 

4 hours ago, Nilsi said:

I feel like you're very much a religious thinker (and I mean this in the most charitable sense).

That's accurate, and I'm saying the Bodhisattva is not a Bodhiasshole.

 

4 hours ago, Nilsi said:

God's Love isn't what we humans consider loving or nice - it's completely impartial and that's what makes it Love with a capital L.

Read the book of Job in the bible - that might give you some insight into this.

Being tied to a human body is not impartial, so if you go around pretending to be impartial in that realm, you're not really getting it.

[Thought Art]

I am pretty spiritually oriented.

But, I can also be an asshole and I apologize for that.

It's also important to realize that, being spiritually developed doesn't always mean you are kind, or thoughtful to everyone and at all times. Spiritual people make mistakes, can be blunt, disagreeable, unfriendly at times.

Also, it's hard to know one another on the forum. People can put on fronts, etc

Edited March 10, 2023 by Thought Art