Marianne Williamson Is Running For President

[Emerald]

2 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Emerald  I'm surprised you agree with how Vaush is straw manning the right and think it's okay. Donald Trump nor DeSantis would be sending people to death camps in current era or anytime soon. This rhetoric is problematic due to it being a thought terminating cliché and majority would not engage with good faith and charitability. 

   Don't you mean gravel?

“Also, I used Vaush’s “death camps” quote not to say that I think there will be actual death camps, but as a way to compare DeSantis and Trump’s relationship to authoritarianism.”

This is what I just posted to Leo.

[Emerald]

2 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Emerald. 

   Don't you mean gravel?

No, I meant gavel

[soos_mite_ah]

On 3/13/2023 at 8:26 AM, Danioover9000 said:

   You must accept that she will be defeated this year. America won't be receptive to her messaging or principals until 50-100 years later.

Lets just see what happens before writing a person off. What you're saying does make sense, don't get me wrong. But lets just say weirder things have happened before. 

Just because you're higher consciousness doesn't mean you can't communicate with people who are lower, You will need to alter the vernacular you use to convey certain ideas so it can resonate. And I think she is doing a good job with that. She isn't leading with her spirituality though you can see its influences in her style of talking. She isn't patronizing or condescending in the way that Liberals and Democrats have a tendency to be with rural and religious voters. And this isn't the first time spirituality interesected with politics in America (think MLK). And while it is new age spirituality instead of Christianity, I think you can still draw similar themes in regard to doing what is right and giving people a good stanadard of living. She is leading with her policies and is emphasizing the need to improve the standard of living, something that many Americans across different spiral stages can resonate with. I think she has the ability to reach out to voters who are not stage green persay but one thing that is stopping her is how people don't really know her like that compared to common characters like Biden and Warren. 

[soos_mite_ah]

As far as right wing authoritarianism goes, I know that some of yall are saying that's a strawman to assume that death camps will come from this. Idk it this will be the end game but it is a possibility. Let's not assume that just because it happened in Germany in the 1930s and 40s that something similar can't happen here. Germany back then was still a first world country and did have an educated population. We're not above this as Americans in the 21st century. 

And while I do agree that fear mongering isn't the answer here, it is important to stay vigilant as these things aren't overnight phenomenon. They gradually progress through policy, rhetoric, and social attitudes. The only way to prevent tragedies like the Holocaust from happening is to take a preventative approach. And rising authortarianism, burning books, and rewriting history are all alarming red flags. There is a pattern that is being repeated. And sure, we don't have exactly the same material conditions as Germany after WWI but while history doesn't exactly repeat itself, it sure does rhyme. 

[Emerald]

24 minutes ago, soos_mite_ah said:

As far as right wing authoritarianism goes, I know that some of yall are saying that's a strawman to assume that death camps will come from this. Idk it this will be the end game but it is a possibility. Let's not assume that just because it happened in Germany in the 1930s and 40s that something similar can't happen here. Germany back then was still a first world country and did have an educated population. We're not above this as Americans in the 21st century. 

And while I do agree that fear mongering isn't the answer here, it is important to stay vigilant as these things aren't overnight phenomenon. They gradually progress through policy, rhetoric, and social attitudes. The only way to prevent tragedies like the Holocaust from happening is to take a preventative approach. And rising authortarianism, burning books, and rewriting history are all alarming red flags. There is a pattern that is being repeated. And sure, we don't have exactly the same material conditions as Germany after WWI but while history doesn't exactly repeat itself, it sure does rhyme. 

I agree with this.

It’s not that I think that DeSantis’s current goal is to make death camps happen. That wasn’t my point in using Vaush’s quote.

But to write DeSantis off as just a normal Conservative doing normal Conservative things is just foolish.

He’s being deeply authoritarian and he’s repeating very old political patterns that have historically led to things like death camps.

What’s happening now in the Republican party is that Fascists and Fascist rhetoric are gaining more and more of a foothold.

Let’s say that Conservatism is the color blue and Fascism is the color red. 

And the trick is to add the color red in very gradually to where people forget what blue looks like altogether and to think that normal Conservatism is just a generally purplish color.

We become frogs in boiling water if we don’t realize what’s happening.

Unsinkable ships sink.

[Hardkill]

7 hours ago, Emerald said:

I agree with this.

It’s not that I think that DeSantis’s current goal is to make death camps happen. That wasn’t my point in using Vaush’s quote.

But to write DeSantis off as just a normal Conservative doing normal Conservative things is just foolish.

He’s being deeply authoritarian and he’s repeating very old political patterns that have historically led to things like death camps.

What’s happening now in the Republican party is that Fascists and Fascist rhetoric are gaining more and more of a foothold.

Let’s say that Conservatism is the color blue and Fascism is the color red. 

And the trick is to add the color red in very gradually to where people forget what blue looks like altogether and to think that normal Conservatism is just a generally purplish color.

We become frogs in boiling water if we don’t realize what’s happening.

Unsinkable ships sink.

DeSantis really is becoming a monster.

He may not be as unstable or as dumb as Trump, but he's a real creep and has leaned very hard onto fascism. 

If he became president he could become like the US version of Putin. A cold, calculating, intelligent, knowledgeable, disciplined, merciless, devious, egotistical military veteran and leader of the USA who would know how to really dismantle our democracy much more effectively than Trump was capable of. 

This is what happened in Russia, after Putin took over his country. 

Furthermore, can you even imagine what would happen to our country if by 2024 DeSantis became President, McConnell became Senate majority leader again, and the GOP held on to the U.S. House in Congress? 

 

Edited March 14, 2023 by Hardkill

[Danioover9000]

@soos_mite_ah

9 hours ago, soos_mite_ah said:

Lets just see what happens before writing a person off. What you're saying does make sense, don't get me wrong. But lets just say weirder things have happened before. 

Just because you're higher consciousness doesn't mean you can't communicate with people who are lower, You will need to alter the vernacular you use to convey certain ideas so it can resonate. And I think she is doing a good job with that. She isn't leading with her spirituality though you can see its influences in her style of talking. She isn't patronizing or condescending in the way that Liberals and Democrats have a tendency to be with rural and religious voters. And this isn't the first time spirituality interesected with politics in America (think MLK). And while it is new age spirituality instead of Christianity, I think you can still draw similar themes in regard to doing what is right and giving people a good stanadard of living. She is leading with her policies and is emphasizing the need to improve the standard of living, something that many Americans across different spiral stages can resonate with. I think she has the ability to reach out to voters who are not stage green persay but one thing that is stopping her is how people don't really know her like that compared to common characters like Biden and Warren. 

   I'm just stating a likely probability, based on the current mainstream American voters and who they vote for typically, that it may be unlikely that Marianne Williamson my reach the finals to debate with Biden. Only small chunks of America vote for socialists/progressives, typically within cities under their own ideological loyalties.

   Not just MLK, but Ghandi, Jesus Christ, and others.

[Emerald]

5 hours ago, Hardkill said:

DeSantis really is becoming a monster.

He may not be as unstable or as dumb as Trump, but he's a real creep and has leaned very hard onto fascism. 

If he became president he could become like the US version of Putin. A cold, calculating, intelligent, knowledgeable, disciplined, merciless, devious, egotistical military veteran and leader of the USA who would know how to really dismantle our democracy much more effectively than Trump was capable of. 

This is what happened in Russia, after Putin took over his country. 

Furthermore, can you even imagine what would happen to our country if by 2024 DeSantis became President, McConnell became Senate majority leader again, and the GOP held on to the U.S. House in Congress? 

 

He really is doing some authoritarian things. There are lots of red flags there.

At this point, I’m not sure if he’s doing things this way because he actually wants to be an authoritarian leader or if he’s just playing the part to appeal to his base so that they elect him to the presidency.

But I don’t want to take the risk to find out.

[Danioover9000]

@Emerald

7 hours ago, Emerald said:

He really is doing some authoritarian things. There are lots of red flags there.

At this point, I’m not sure if he’s doing things this way because he actually wants to be an authoritarian leader or if he’s just playing the part to appeal to his base so that they elect him to the presidency.

But I don’t want to take the risk to find out.

   Better than a Totalitarian?

[Emerald]

14 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Emerald

   Better than a Totalitarian?

That’s not a meaningful distinction at this juncture in time. We don’t know what DeSantis would do with the presidency.

[Hardkill]

30 minutes ago, Emerald said:

That’s not a meaningful distinction at this juncture in time. We don’t know what DeSantis would do with the presidency.

Why is DeSantis so popular in Florida when it about as urban, as racially diverse, and as educated as people from New York, California, or Illinois?

What do the several millions of liberals, Democrats, women who are not conservative, black people, Latinos who are not cubans, and Miamians in your state feel about him?

Furthermore, Florida is one of the 11 states left in the US that have not expanded their Medicaid eligibility for its people. Yet, it's one of the most populous and diverse states in America and is a wealthy state. So, why aren't there enough people in that state not demanding like hell for the Medicaid expansion to happen? 

Edited March 16, 2023 by Hardkill

[Emerald]

23 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

Why is DeSantis so popular in Florida when it about as urban, as racially diverse, and as educated as people from New York, California, or Illinois?

Not really as educated or racially diverse as New York or California. In most places in Florida, it’s half retirees and half rednecks. And both of those demographics tend to vote Conservative.

What do the several millions of liberals, Democrats, women who are not conservative, black people, Latinos who are not cubans, and Miamians in your state feel about him?

Cubans are the majority Latino population in South Florida. And they have very negative feelings about anything remotely akin to Communism. So, DeSantis goes over well with them.

But Florida has always been a purple state. So, it’s not surprising that he got it. But I think the reason why he’s popular is because he really leans into the culture war stuff.

Lots of people get really enlivened by fighting the culture war and really don’t look at politics beyond that.

Furthermore, Florida is one of the 11 states left in the US that have not expanded their Medicaid eligibility for its people. Yet, it's one of the most populous and diverse states in America and is a wealthy state. So, why aren't there enough people in that state not demanding like hell for the Medicaid expansion to happen? 

But that would be Communism! Shut your mouth you dirty Socialist. ?

Basically, people can be tricked into voting against their best interests.

 

[Hardkill]

16 minutes ago, Emerald said:

 

Oh.....

but over 5.6 million people voted for Biden in 2020, which was almost half of the entire voting population in that state. So, what do all of those voters feel about him?

[Emerald]

40 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

Oh.....

but over 5.6 million people voted for Biden in 2020, which was almost half of the entire voting population in that state. So, what do all of those voters feel about him?

Like I said, it’s always been a purple state. It’s usually 51/49 in the slight favor of Republicans.

But there’s a couple reasons that DeSantis cleaned house… one is leaning into culture war stuff.

And his opponent was Charlie Crist who was a former Republican governor turned Democrat in order to run against DeSantis.

So, it was really a battle of middle of the road Republican versus far right anti-woke Republican.

Either way, the only reason why Democratic voters voted for Crist was because of negative voter turnout to try to keep DeSantis from getting it.

But he certainly wasn’t going to excite the Democratic base.

[Hardkill]

3 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Like I said, it’s always been a purple state. It’s usually 51/49 in the slight favor of Republicans.

But there’s a couple reasons that DeSantis cleaned house… one is leaning into culture war stuff.

And his opponent was Charlie Crist who was a former Republican governor turned Democrat in order to run against DeSantis.

So, it was really a battle of middle of the road Republican versus far right anti-woke Republican.

Either way, the only reason why Democratic voters voted for Crist was because of negative voter turnout to try to keep DeSantis from getting it.

But he certainly wasn’t going to excite the Democratic base.

That's very sad. 

Do you think that one day the majority of people in Florida will come to regret having a right-wing extremist running their state?

 

[Leo Gura]

I will simply say this:

The way you guys portray DeSantis as an authoritarian is not accurate. You are failing to truly understand the right-wing position, so you overly demonize it. There is more nuance there than you think.

I will leave it up to you to figure out the details. If you dare.

Edited March 16, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Hardkill]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I will simply say this:

The way you guys portray DeSantis as an authoritarian is no accurate. You are failing to truly understand the right-wing position, so you overly demonize it.

Then why is undermining people's freedoms in his state? Why is he bullying Disneyworld, schools, and other businesses in his state? Why has he banned African studies in schools in his state? Why is he being a creep with his mandatory tests for girls to check to see if they have their periods or not?

[Leo Gura]

12 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

Then why is undermining people's freedoms in his state? Why is he bullying Disneyworld, schools, and other businesses in his state? Why has he banned African studies in schools in his state? Why is he being a creep with his mandatory tests for girls to check to see if they have their periods or not?

The same fearmongering can be done about progressive policies.

Watch your double standards.

[Danioover9000]

@Leo Gura

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I will simply say this:

The way you guys portray DeSantis as an authoritarian is not accurate. You are failing to truly understand the right-wing position, so you overly demonize it. There is more nuance there than you think.

I will leave it up to you to figure out the details. If you dare.

   So true, I think the well's poisoned so much at this point that there's no amount of good faith communication for some time, without spending that chunk in dialogue debunking those stereotypes in these socialist/progressive's minds of 'ALL CONSERVATIVES ARE FASCIST/NAZIS!!!???

[Emerald]

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I will simply say this:

The way you guys portray DeSantis as an authoritarian is not accurate. You are failing to truly understand the right-wing position, so you overly demonize it. There is more nuance there than you think.

I will leave it up to you to figure out the details. If you dare.

You’re just wrong about DeSantis.

And I do understand the Conservative position. I grew up in a community with a Conservative ethos. 

I can steel man all of their positions, and I could convince a Conservative that didn’t know me that I was a true dyed in the wool Conservative if I had to.

What you must understand is that it’s not specifically about his ideological positions. It’s about the way he’s going about enacting them.

It’s about how a politician chooses to enact their ideology that makes them an authoritarian… not necessarily the ideology itself.

He’s banning books and attempting to influence public schools and colleges to indoctrinate kids into a certain way of thinking. 

That’s enough of an authoritarian red flag for me.

Edited March 16, 2023 by Emerald