Tread Lightly Leo, These Are Hollow Grounds

[YinYang]

11 minutes ago, Prabhaker said:

Unless you are not ready to die, how can you know what is beyond death ?

Logic. What is the opposite of temporary life? Eternal life. 

Only reason its not eternal death, is because there is a truth which exists that tells us that we cannot imagine nothingness, so long as we are conscious. 

Edited March 9, 2017 by YinYang

[Prabhaker]

9 minutes ago, YinYang said:

Only reason its not eternal death, is because there is a truth which exists that tells us that we cannot imagine death or nothingness, so long as we are conscious. 

What's harm in experimenting / gambling on path of enlightenment ?

[YinYang]

15 minutes ago, Prabhaker said:

What's harm in experimenting / gambling on path of enlightenment ?

There are much safer ways of obtaining such enlightenment. Psychedelics can catapult you into a psychological hell for that enlightenment, which can present psychological harm along the way. But at the same time it has a very spiritual component, despite the negativity. 

To be fair, there is absolutely nothing wrong with experimenting/gambling with psychedelics. Harm and wrongdoing are two very different things. 

Edited March 9, 2017 by YinYang

[Prabhaker]

2 minutes ago, YinYang said:

There are much safer ways of obtaining such enlightenment. Psychedelics can catapult you into a hell for that enlightenment.

I agree, psychedelics can not lead you to the enlightenment, but they can give you the glimpse of meditation. And once you know that it is possible for you, you have traveled far in the direction of your own being. Now you can start a journey in safer ways.

[Heart of Space]

So dramatic, but the sentiment is true.  I'd opt for a more rational bases for not using them too much.  My personal experience is that you can wear down your brain to where you get almost nothing but bad trips and deplete certain neurotransmitters causing depression and things like that.  

You can certainly experience God on these substances, but funny thing about God, he gives no fucks about whether or not a chemical you're taking is causing you brain damage.  

Edited March 9, 2017 by Heart of Space

[electroBeam]

45 minutes ago, YinYang said:

Psychedelics can catapult you into a psychological hell for that enlightenment, which can present psychological harm along the way.

Youre forgetting that enlightenment through meditation can yield the exact same results that you are articulating on with psychedelics. Going through the dark knight of the soul can also make you suicidal maybe. Its enlightenment thats the battle, not necessarily psychs.

[YinYang]

14 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

Youre forgetting that enlightenment through meditation can yield the exact same results that you are articulating on with psychedelics. Going through the dark knight of the soul can also make you suicidal maybe. Its enlightenment thats the battle, not necessarily psychs.

The same lessons from psychedelics can be acquired through meditation, yes. But meditation does not rob you of your senses. And that is the beauty of the beast about psychedelics: you can never be 100% certain of reality because your perception is altered externally (with drugs), whereas meditation can assist change in consciousness internally. As well as the fact that your experience can never be 100% unaffected by your ego during a psychedelic experience. Therefore, you know with absolute certainty that it's YOU and not the substance who is producing enlightenment during meditation. 

Edited March 9, 2017 by YinYang

[abgespaced]

I too am disquieted by the recent enthusiasm for psychedelic use by Leo and as a result by his followers.

There are no shortcuts in life. Only loans from the future. There is no net gain in the process of using drugs.

What is asked of the substance is wisdom. But the substance does not hold the wisdom. You hold the wisdom.

It is your duty in life to extract that wisdom, experience it and share it with others. 

This is not something that is done once and marked off the to-do list. It is a constant process throughout life. It is life.

So I ask you- how do you want to experience that reality? Lucidly? Authentically? Consistently? Durably? No drug can offer you these.

 

[Loreena]

11 minutes ago, abgespaced said:

I too am disquieted by the recent enthusiasm for psychedelic use by Leo and as a result by his followers.

There are no shortcuts in life. Only loans from the future. There is no net gain in the process of using drugs.

What is asked of the substance is wisdom. But the substance does not hold the wisdom. You hold the wisdom.

It is your duty in life to extract that wisdom, experience it and share it with others. 

This is not something that is done once and marked off the to-do list. It is a constant process throughout life. It is life.

So I ask you- how do you want to experience that reality? Lucidly? Authentically? Consistently? Durably? No drug can offer you these.

 

I think  you're probably the wisest person on the forum. You're like a big gem..your ideas are highly appreciated. You rock  keep rocking 

[Guest Annetta]

3 hours ago, I_Like_Thing said:

I've been in those loops too. They suck.

I've been in those loops too. They suck.

 

[eskwire]

4 hours ago, jse said:

 

Sometimes, when I do self-inquiry, I ask, "Kat. Why do you have such a big crush on Daniel Stern?"

[abgespaced]

@Loreena

You are kind hearted, generous and warming. Thank you.

[Epiphany_Inspired]

I've experienced "the bad"... so badly...I get it...at the same time, to be authentically open-minded....we can't assume to truly know another's experience, insights or intentions just based on the descriptive words they use...like *infinity*...one really positive thing I see ...on both sides of the coin...is an awesome shattering of the rigid box of normalcy, an amazing willingness to explore, and beautiful communication about good, bad, etc...thank you!

[YinYang]

42 minutes ago, John Flores said:

@I_Like_Thing I've never been in a loop, but I know about it. Does it actually bring you back to the place you were upon awakening and you reexpreince reality from a different time. ?

Loops explained:

Usually during a negative psychedelic experience, the user can develop cognitive, physical, emotional, auditory and sensational loops, simultaneously. 

During cognitive loops, the user has created circular logic. For example, if Jimmy thinks that if he doesn't leave the house his parents will catch him on LSD and he will have a bad trip. But if he leaves out in public he would get arrested by police and have a bad trip. So to avoid being arrested Jimmy thinks to stay inside. Jimmy has dejavu and remembers that if he stays inside with his parents he will have a bad trip.

During physical or behavioral loops, the user carries out their thoughts. Jimmy starts pacing to and from his bedroom to the front door repeatedly.  

During visual loops, the user sees the same hallucination repeatedly. When Jimmy is in his room, he sees blood (which is actually his own sweat) dripping down his body, his shirt drenched. This gives Jimmy the impression that he's either injured or killed someone. He then sees flashing police/ambulance lights out the windows when he gets to the front door. 

During an emotional loop, the user is bipolar in that he shifts from one emotion to the other rapidly. Jimmy shifts from positive to negative emotions. Jimmy feels terrified when he is in his room, but feels elated when he gets to the front door because he feels that the ambulance will save him. The anxiety multiplies each time he repeats this process until Jimmy thinks he's going to die.

During auditory loops, the user hears the same sounds according to his thoughts or environment. Everytime Jimmy paces to the front door, he hears police/ambulance sirens, but everytime he gets to his room he hears his parents shouting at him from down the hallway. 

During sensational loops, the user feels repeated sensations on his physical body. When Jimmy is in his room, he tastes and smells blood dripping down into his mouth, and when he gets to the front door he hallucinates that he has cuffs around his wrists. 

The worst thing about a loop is you don't even realize that you're doing any of it. And when you do, you realize that you can't get out because you're doing it to yourself. No human being should have to go through this.

Edited March 9, 2017 by YinYang

[YinYang]

I wouldn't really call psychosis a mental illness, as such. It's just that those people realize they can't with any certainty be absolutely sure that what they are seeing around them is real.

Think about this: if space/time is relative, then it takes time for information to travel to one end to the other. It therefore takes time to process the information you see with your eyes; for that information to first hit your eyes, be processed by your brain and relayed back to you as an image. That means you are always looking into the past, not the present. If what you're seeing around you is already in the past, then how can you be certain that what is around you is actually real? You can't. Psychosis is an extension of that.

Psychedelics blur the line between what is real/unreal. Therefore people with psychosis will get freaked out more easily. 

Edited March 9, 2017 by YinYang

[Dodo]

10 hours ago, I_Like_Thing said:

I've been in those loops too. They suck.

I've been in those loops too. They suck.

If you know how to get stuck in loops, just get stuck in the loop of happiness, love by proclaiming "all is well", with every fiber of your being,  with every action,  with every breath.

Don't lie, but notice that all is well, all is peace. ✌ 

Be a source of light to yourself and others, even though its only an illusion, a dream, let it be a nice dream and not a nightmare. We are the illusory chess pieces that decide which one it will be.

Edited March 9, 2017 by Dodoster

[FirstglimpseOMG]

@YinYang Mind is mind. Mind is not you. The meaning of life is you, already. Identify with mind, and allow mind to believe it is primary, and continue to hurt and suffer. I'm working on observing mind, noticing mind, and remaining conscious of mind. I don't want to be associated with mind at all though. I am, often, and I suffer like a bitch. 

In my opinion and experience, the bad trip of relating and identifying with mind on 'one of those days, FUCK!!' is an exponentially more miserable, grinding, halting, downwardly spiralling second-by-second nightmare much worse and damaging than any panic attacks and existential crises that mind may want to throw into the midst of a substance-catylized journey within. Mind wouldn't have much problem messing up just about anything, no substances required! (As we see daily) 

My mind manages to do a horrible job on itself, by itself, whenever I let it run itself for very long.  When I let go of mind, my higher self soars and lives and loves and creates, much like a good 'trip'.

[jse]

16 hours ago, John Flores said:

I've never been in a loop, but I know about it. Does it actually bring you back to the place you were upon awakening and you reexpreince reality from a different time. ?

Thought loops explained.

Edited March 9, 2017 by jse

[jse]

10 hours ago, John Flores said:

I experienced something like this during a trip. It feels like you are going insane. It is a hell that no one should experience. It took me 5 months to really get over this experience.

Thing is, people with mental disorders actually know what is going on (for reasons outside the scope of this paragraph) and their subconscious bitterness/ego takes over and causes them to want to watch you suffer. (It really depends on how bad the mental illness is). Therefore, don't do paychadelics around mentally ill people.

paychadelics: pay-as-you-suffer.  Pfff... tell me about it.

From my personal experience there is no greater insanity, than that caused by the altered state known as "falling in love".

[FirstglimpseOMG]

Occasionally I can manage a positive feedback loop. It usually seems to require a trigger.. at my stage of personal development running a constant (or at least longer lasting) positive loop does not come naturally. A teacher, or some practised mindfulness & presence will at times give me a rush of euphoria and realization, and I think each one of those experiences moves you along considerably, even if you fall out of the loop too quickly and easily. People spiral themselves down into depression without much effort, there's gotta be something said for learning to spiral up effortlessly and naturally. 

Was just thinking, if you can get a really fine positive feedback loop running, like, nonstop.. and there's any gain to it, it wouldn't be long before you just detonated into an explosion of light. 

Picture Hendrix pushing top wattage through 3 Marshall stacks (24 12" speakers) and that wall of mayhem being picked up by his stratocaster pickups 10 feet away & sent back out through the Marshalls again, to be picked up by the pickups again...& on & on. Well, he did start calling it 'electric church' after a while heh heh.