Liberalism VS. Conservatism

[Danioover9000]

@Schizophonia

Just now, Schizophonia said:

what is a conservative person?

   A conservative MINDED person, not the political ideology, is a reserved, sometimes militaristic in wanting to have routines and schedules laid out and done to the T, and fiscal generally. Conservatively minded people are more careful and cautious, and sometimes more morally intergroups than  average people, even compared to a few liberally minded people, like this fiancée after the 6:00 mark:

 

[Ulax]

7 hours ago, Someone here said:

Thanks for the response. Very well said .

I think liberalism trying to upgrade everything in society without taking into account that we still live in the dark ages . Most people even in the US and the developed countries still are attached to their old traditions and religions and way of approaching life .

I'm a conservative because in our current era we can't revolutionazie everything out of thin air . There has to be progress first in how the masses think and behave.  So you could say that I'm a potential liberal. Meaning I'm only a conservative temporarily until our society is capable of handling the liberal revolution. (I'm mostly speaking about Indian society).

@Someone here Would you class yourself as a systemic thinker?

[Emerald]

“It's simpler than that. Let's go by my example of rape, the conservative approach.  Liberalism blames the "aggressor" while conservatism blames the "victim". Conservatism is anti-victim mentality. Liberalism is pro-victim mentality.”

So, would you recommend that we not prosecute rapes anymore?

Or would you perhaps prosecute the rape victim for their own rape?

How would you feel if you were a rape victim? Would you blame yourself and bite your tongue about it to avoid admitting that you’ve been victimized?

Would you hold your tongue and allow yourself to be continually raped in order to avoid admitting your victimization so as not to fall prey to victim’s mentality?

What about theft?

If someone steals something from you, are you going to let the thief off the hook because it was your fault that you didn’t protect yourself from being stolen from?

Edited March 2, 2023 by Emerald

[Emerald]

15 hours ago, Someone here said:

The fact they would rather blame a rape victim, rather than the rapist, clearly shows how skewed the liberal mind is.

I quoted you above when you say conservatives blame the rape victim and liberals blame the aggressor.

And you said this was a good thing about conservatives because liberals blaming the aggressor and not the victim supports victim’s mentality.

Edit: I thought I was reply to the OP. Sorry for the mix up.

Edited March 2, 2023 by Emerald

[aurum]

13 hours ago, Someone here said:

It's simpler than that. Let's go by my example of rape, the conservative approach.  Liberalism blames the "aggressor" while conservatism blames the "victim". Conservatism is anti-victim mentality. Liberalism is pro-victim mentality.

More like:

Liberalism wants to address larger societal problems related to patriarchy and toxic masculinity which lead to rape. 

This correlates with an increase in responsibility for men and all those in power to not abuse it. It’s not about victim mentality, it’s about a leveling of power dynamics and higher ethical standards. That’s what Green cares about.

Of course some progressives can get stuck in victim mentality. But to smear all this as being “woke” or “being a victim” is precisely the error the right wing is making. That is a strawman and cherrypicking.

[Danioover9000]

@Ulax

4 hours ago, Ulax said:

@Someone here Would you class yourself as a systemic thinker?

   I'm a conservative, and I do class myself as a systems thinker.

[Danioover9000]

@aurum

1 hour ago, aurum said:

More like:

Liberalism wants to address larger societal problems related to patriarchy and toxic masculinity which lead to rape. 

This correlates with an increase in responsibility for men and all those in power to not abuse it. It’s not about victim mentality, it’s about a leveling of power dynamics and higher ethical standards. That’s what Green cares about.

Of course some progressives can get stuck in victim mentality. But to smear all this as being “woke” or “being a victim” is precisely the error the right wing is making. That is a strawman and cherrypicking.

   Mainly because most brains of Progressive's, the area that 'spots the differences' and identifies problems, is much more active compared to conservative minds, which is why sometimes progressives appear more whiny and complains about issues, because sometimes that's literally what they see all the time.

 

[Danioover9000]

@Emerald

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

“It's simpler than that. Let's go by my example of rape, the conservative approach.  Liberalism blames the "aggressor" while conservatism blames the "victim". Conservatism is anti-victim mentality. Liberalism is pro-victim mentality.”

So, would you recommend that we not prosecute rapes anymore?

Or would you perhaps prosecute the rape victim for their own rape?

How would you feel if you were a rape victim? Would you blame yourself and bite your tongue about it to avoid admitting that you’ve been victimized?

Would you hold your tongue and allow yourself to be continually raped in order to avoid admitting your victimization so as not to fall prey to victim’s mentality?

What about theft?

If someone steals something from you, are you going to let the thief off the hook because it was your fault that you didn’t protect yourself from being stolen from?

   I don't mean this to come off as abrasive, but I'd not suggest when talking about the similarities and differences with the conservative mind vs liberal mind, with a subject matter that can itself be a 'thought terminating cliché' and trigger close mindedness and backlash, and increase likelihood of a heated debate here.

   A better alternative would probably be other mundane examples first, before going into the deep end of very dark topics, because most will just ignore, or will become combative. I'm assuming here a bit, as I'm similar in OP's thinking and positions in the past, but when I read that post, I immediately don't want to engage with your post.  

[aurum]

9 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

Mainly because most brains of Progressive's, the area that 'spots the differences' and identifies problems, is much more active compared to conservative minds, which is why sometimes progressives appear more whiny and complains about issues, because sometimes that's literally what they see all the time.

Yes it’s related. “Whiny” can be similar to having a victim mentality.

[Emerald]

2 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Emerald

   I don't mean this to come off as abrasive, but I'd not suggest when talking about the similarities and differences with the conservative mind vs liberal mind, with a subject matter that can itself be a 'thought terminating cliché' and trigger close mindedness and backlash, and increase likelihood of a heated debate here.

   A better alternative would probably be other mundane examples first, before going into the deep end of very dark topics, because most will just ignore, or will become combative. I'm assuming here a bit, as I'm similar in OP's thinking and positions in the past, but when I read that post, I immediately don't want to engage with your post.  

I didn’t even argue with him in my post. So, I don’t even know what the reaction would be.

I am just asking questions. He can choose to answer them if he wants to or not.

[Tanz]

The left creates the war; the right fights them.  

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, Tanz said:

The left creates the war

Ah, yes... the left famously created the Iraq War, the Vietnam War, the Ukraine War, WW2, and WW1.

[Nilsi]

48 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Ah, yes... the left famously created the Iraq War, the Vietnam War, the Ukraine War, WW2, and WW1.

They arguably did create the Ukraine War lol.

[Carl-Richard]

9 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

They arguably did create the Ukraine War lol.

?

[Nilsi]

6 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

?

Depends on your definition of "the left," but I certainly associate much of the Western/European arrogance and superiority complex with leftist socialist ideology. 

Intelligent conservatives actually respect a nation like Russia for it's tradition and uniqueness, while virtually all liberals want to flush all that down the toilet and westernize every last spec of dust on this planet. 

That disconnectedness is what got us here, if you ask me.

[Devin]

8 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

Depends on your definition of "the left," but I certainly associate much of the Western/European arrogance and superiority complex with leftist socialist ideology. 

Intelligent conservatives actually respect a nation like Russia for it's tradition and uniqueness, while virtually all liberals want to flush all that down the toilet and westernize every last spec of dust on this planet. 

That disconnectedness is what got us here, if you ask me.

           What did they do to Russia so far though, to cause this? Provoke, yes, not create, they provoked by supporting democracy and shunning oppression, like scaring a bully by being nice and liked by others.

Edited March 2, 2023 by Devin

[Nilsi]

7 minutes ago, Devin said:

           What did they do to Russia so far though, to cause this? Provoke, yes, not create, they provoked by supporting democracy and shunning oppression, like scaring a bully by being nice and liked by others.

They disrespected and marginalized Russia for decades.

European politicians in particular are uniquely stupid in this regard. They spend years in their fancy private universities, getting educated in and writing thesises on french postmodernism, hermeneutics, post-structuralism and all this fancy shit 

- and then they spend their whole careers marginalizing every non-modernist government and don't even shy away from kinetic warfare to shove their modernist ideology down everyone's throat.

You couldn't make this shit up, if you wanted to, it's that bad.

[Devin]

10 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

They disrespected and marginalized Russia for decades.

European politicians in particular are uniquely stupid in this regard. They spend years in their fancy private universities, getting educated in and writing thesises on french postmodernism, hermeneutics, post-structuralism and all this fancy shit 

- and then they spend their whole careers marginalizing every non-modernist government and don't even shy away from kinetic warfare to shove their modernist ideology down everyone's throat.

You couldn't make this shit up, if you wanted to, it's that bad.

        'They created this by changing the status quo', that is a liberal use of the term created in terms of war. That's the same as saying the slave that spoke up caused the beatings. Their previous use of military hasn't threatened Russia and was right wing use, is palestine and israel conflict left or right?

      Iraq, vietnam, were for resources not democracy. Only in name has military offense been for democracy, in actuality it was for right wing reasons.

Edited March 2, 2023 by Devin

[Nilsi]

11 minutes ago, Devin said:

        'They created this by changing the status quo', that is a liberal use of the term created in terms of war. That's the same as saying the slave that spoke up caused the beatings. Their previous use of military hasn't threatened Russia.

So you want to tell me that the educated western liberal Brahmin caste are basically slaves? - the propaganda machine sure did it's job on you.

 

Edited March 2, 2023 by Nilsi

[Devin]

4 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

So you want to tell me that educated western liberals are basically slaves? - the propaganda machine sure did it's job on you.

 

        No, I mean your claim is effectively the west is espousing democracy therefore Russia must suppress with violence.

        I think the difference from our perspectives is from how the west has used military in the past, I don't group everything the west does as 'left', iraq, vietnam, ..... those were rightwing reasons even though done in the name of democracy they were actually for resources.