Liberalism VS. Conservatism

[Someone here]

Liberalism is the political ideology of children: self-irresponsibility, victim-mentality, blame others, spoilage, corruption, innocence etc 

Conservatism is the political ideology of adults: self-responsibility, anti-victim, blame self, moral, virtuous, wise.etc 

Do you disagree with this division? Explain why or why not in a detailed response.

Let me explain myself  :
Liberals blame "guns" for violence, not people. Because liberals refuse to believe that people are the cause (causal agents) of crimes. If a spree-shooter goes into a batman movie in the theater, and murders dozens of people, then the gun is the problem, not the spree-shooter. Liberalism blames objects, not subjects. Because subjects, humans, especially including women and children, are pure and innocent, never evil, and can never do harm. Even if a human becoming could do harm, in liberalism, then liberals would "forgive" this person immediately. Because liberals believe in absolute goodness of redemption. Liberals believe that all badness/evil can become "corrected" through indoctrination, education, and schooling (brainwashing). Liberals believe they can brainwash the world into goodness and happiness.

Conservatives blame people for violence, not guns. Because conservatives accept that people are causal agents; people are moral. People are capable of good and evil. A conservative will not hesitate to sentence the spree-shooter to a death sentence, and murder the murderer. Conservatives lean more toward eye-for-an-eye justice. It morally is acceptable to murder a murderer. And conservatives hate the victim-mentality. If a girl gets raped at a frat party then why was she there in the first place, getting drunk, and dressed like a skanky slut? She deserved it. Because she is responsible for herself. But liberals say: no, women are never responsible for rape, only men are. Conservatives reject this. Because conservatives support self-responsibility and dislike blaming others. If something bad happens to a woman or child then the woman or child should take some responsibility, or learn the hard way.


How do you dare respond to these mentalities? Which are you? Are you liberal or conservative? Are you an adult or a child? Do you blame others or yourself? Do guns kill people or do people kill people?

[aurum]

@Someone here Of course some liberals can be very immature and irresponsible. But I’d argue your read of the room is off.

A liberal who has made it to stage Green tends to actually be more responsible than conservatives.  What you interpret as liberals not taking personal responsibility is actually an increase in their circle of concern. Which transcends and includes personal responsibility.

[Kensho]

If you had been raised in a prosperous society with a high-quality value system, given the love you needed, non biased education and had no insecurities and fears, what would you choose from the following?

[Leo Gura]

15 hours ago, Someone here said:

Liberalism is the political ideology of children: self-irresponsibility, victim-mentality, blame others, spoilage, corruption, innocence etc 

Conservatism is the political ideology of adults: self-responsibility, anti-victim, blame self, moral, virtuous, wise.etc 

Very, very bad starting points. So biased and ahistoric that I don't even know where to begin correcting it.

For one thing, you should notice that conservatives are more corrupt and immoral than liberals, in most cases.

And conservatives wise? Please don't make me laugh.

Edited March 1, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Someone here]

14 hours ago, aurum said:

@Someone here Of course some liberals can be very immature and irresponsible. But I’d argue your read of the room is off.

A liberal who has made it to stage Green tends to actually be more responsible than conservatives.  What you interpret as liberals not taking personal responsibility is actually an increase in their circle of concern. Which transcends and includes personal responsibility.

It's simpler than that. Let's go by my example of rape, the conservative approach.  Liberalism blames the "aggressor" while conservatism blames the "victim". Conservatism is anti-victim mentality. Liberalism is pro-victim mentality.

That is the reason why females and children (especially younger age) tend to be liberals. Because children automatically have a "victim-status" and "human rights" just for being born. For example children are more susceptible to harm, scams, and crime. They also suffer more from crime against them, like rape, beating, or murder of a child. These are all grievous and heinous crimes. But why does a child receive "special status"??? Because children automatically are victims of crimes, not perpetrators of crime.

For a liberal, it seems almost impossible that children can commit crimes or be 'evil'.

But for a conservative (my perspective), a child can be evil. This is a huge moral difference between liberalism and conservatism.

35 minutes ago, Kensho said:

If you had been raised in a prosperous society with a high-quality value system, given the love you needed, non biased education and had no insecurities and fears, what would you choose from the following?

I would choose the right. I resonate more with their moral compass and value system. 

30 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Very, very bad starting points. So biased and ahistoric that I don't even know where to begin correcting it.

For one thing, you should notice that conservatives are more corrupt and immoral than liberals, in most cases.

And conservatives wise? Please don't make me laugh.

Leo, I only made these points based on your videos on liberal mind and conservative mind.
What the majority of liberals fail to recognise is quite amusing, they  promote the subjective approach to ethics and social constructs, yet they  continuously categorise people by their actions while failing to acknowledge the subjectiveness of their identity, quite ironic really. You would rather judge someone based on what they do not by who they are.

The fact they would rather blame a rape victim, rather than the rapist, clearly shows how skewed the liberal mind is.

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Someone here said:

I only made these points based on your videos on liberal mind and conservative mind.

Then you really misunderstood those videos.

[Majed]

@Leo Gura since conservatives are generally speaking less educated, and uninterested in education, fearful close minded, rigid and dogmatic, very judgemental, they're the opposite of what a wise man is. however some of them are interesting like maybe doestoevsky. btw leo have you read dostoevsky ? 

[Kensho]

58 minutes ago, Someone here said:

I would choose the right. I resonate more with their moral compass and value system. 

Judging by your first post, it's obvious that you would choose the right. The fact that you value more the conservative moral compass and value system, indicates that you need to get more perspectives on things.

Conservatives are people who have specific limitations that do not allow them to be liberal (those limitations are well described in Leo's video).

From a healthy liberal standpoint, seeing someone who is trapped in a very conservative mindset makes you feel compassionate.

What we need is a well-balanced conscious combination of liberal and conservative views that do not derive from fear and insecurity. 

[Gesundheit2]

17 hours ago, Someone here said:

Do guns kill people or do people kill people?

Both.

But it's easier to control gun traffic than people using the guns.

Unless you're the ammunation 

[spiritual memes]

Straw man arguments, the most common too of conservatives.

Conservativism is based on fear while liberalism is based on love. Notice how conservative countries are less developed.  If conservatives had their way, we would still be in the stone age.

[Ulax]

18 hours ago, Someone here said:

Liberalism is the political ideology of children: self-irresponsibility, victim-mentality, blame others, spoilage, corruption, innocence etc 

Conservatism is the political ideology of adults: self-responsibility, anti-victim, blame self, moral, virtuous, wise.etc 

Do you disagree with this division? Explain why or why not in a detailed response.

Let me explain myself  :
Liberals blame "guns" for violence, not people. Because liberals refuse to believe that people are the cause (causal agents) of crimes. If a spree-shooter goes into a batman movie in the theater, and murders dozens of people, then the gun is the problem, not the spree-shooter. Liberalism blames objects, not subjects. Because subjects, humans, especially including women and children, are pure and innocent, never evil, and can never do harm. Even if a human becoming could do harm, in liberalism, then liberals would "forgive" this person immediately. Because liberals believe in absolute goodness of redemption. Liberals believe that all badness/evil can become "corrected" through indoctrination, education, and schooling (brainwashing). Liberals believe they can brainwash the world into goodness and happiness.

Conservatives blame people for violence, not guns. Because conservatives accept that people are causal agents; people are moral. People are capable of good and evil. A conservative will not hesitate to sentence the spree-shooter to a death sentence, and murder the murderer. Conservatives lean more toward eye-for-an-eye justice. It morally is acceptable to murder a murderer. And conservatives hate the victim-mentality. If a girl gets raped at a frat party then why was she there in the first place, getting drunk, and dressed like a skanky slut? She deserved it. Because she is responsible for herself. But liberals say: no, women are never responsible for rape, only men are. Conservatives reject this. Because conservatives support self-responsibility and dislike blaming others. If something bad happens to a woman or child then the woman or child should take some responsibility, or learn the hard way.


How do you dare respond to these mentalities? Which are you? Are you liberal or conservative? Are you an adult or a child? Do you blame others or yourself? Do guns kill people or do people kill people?

@Someone here I'd say the following.

Liberalism can seem childish when people are very empathetic but intellectually uneducated. I wouldn't say its childish, more somewhat uneducated. The childish seeming liberal sees correctly that how everyone act is totally understandable, and that really no one is really to blame. So, the childish seeming liberal is high conscious in the sense that they recognise that where people end up at in life isn't their fault. However, the lack of education means that such liberal is inept at understanding or creating competent systems of cause and effect that would help people. And, they can create well-meaning but very flawed systems in their effort to help. This is where i'd sort of put some of stage green people at.

Liberals at a higher point have that same empathy but with a deep intellectual understanding of systems of cause and effect. Such that they understand the systems which cause people to act as they do, and also understand how to create helpful systems. This is where I'd put yellow folk at. To my mind, this liberal would argue that neither the gun, nor the person alone kills someone. Instead, the interplay of systems of cause and effect kill people. 

The conservative is actually way less conscious than even the childish liberal because they lack both the empathy and the intellectual understanding. They have an incredible lack of understanding of systems. To such an extent that they do not even believe in systems of cause and effect. This allows them to be utter devils. And they go round, often in complete ignorance, altering/ creating very unhelpful systems of cause and effect. They often have a high lack of collective responsibility, and their understanding of personal responsibility is very flawed, in my opinion. Flawed because they have a great lack of understanding around why they do what they do, and they never actually had the ability to choose to do otherwise than they actually did. They do not understand that their successes in life were only possible because systems of cause and effect produced that success. Conservatives are forever spitting into the wind, and then blaming the spit. I tend to see a conservative as easily the most childish. They have very relatively undeveloped minds. Stage blue on the spiral.

Edited March 1, 2023 by Ulax

[Carl-Richard]

Adults know how to properly balance the two.

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, Gesundheit2 said:

Both.

But it's easier to control gun traffic than people using the guns.

Unless you're the ammunation 

Don't you realize that making guns illegal only disarms the law abiding citizens and empowers the criminal element? Look at the murder and crime rate in places that banned guns in USA (Chicago, New York, etc.)

 

23 minutes ago, Ulax said:

@Someone here I'd say the following.

Liberalism can seem childish when people are very empathetic but intellectually uneducated. I wouldn't say its childish, more somewhat uneducated. The childish seeming liberal sees correctly that how everyone act is totally understandable, and that really no one is really to blame. So, the childish seeming liberal is high conscious in the sense that they recognise that where people end up at in life isn't their fault. However, the lack of education means that such liberal is inept at understanding or creating competent systems of cause and effect that would help people. And, they can create well-meaning but very flawed systems in their effort to help. This is where i'd sort of put some of stage green people at.

Liberals at a higher point have that same empathy but with a deep intellectual understanding of systems of cause and effect. Such that they understand the systems which cause people to act as they do, and also understand how to create helpful systems. This is where I'd put yellow folk at. To my mind, this liberal would argue that neither the gun, nor the person alone kills someone. Instead, the interplay of systems of cause and effect kill people. 

The conservative is actually way less conscious than even the childish liberal because they lack both the empathy and the intellectual understanding. They have an incredible lack of understanding of systems. To such an extent that they do not even believe in systems of cause and effect. This allows them to be utter devils. And they go round, often in complete ignorance, altering/ creating very unhelpful systems of cause and effect. They often have a high lack of collective responsibility, and their understanding of personal responsibility is very flawed, in my opinion. Flawed because they have a great lack of understanding around why they do what they do, and they never actually had the ability to choose to do otherwise than they actually did. They do not understand that their successes in life were only possible because systems of cause and effect produced that success. Conservatives are forever spitting into the wind, and then blaming the spit. I tend to see a conservative as easily the most childish. They have very relatively undeveloped minds. Stage blue on the spiral.

Thanks for the response. Very well said .

I think liberalism trying to upgrade everything in society without taking into account that we still live in the dark ages . Most people even in the US and the developed countries still are attached to their old traditions and religions and way of approaching life .

I'm a conservative because in our current era we can't revolutionazie everything out of thin air . There has to be progress first in how the masses think and behave.  So you could say that I'm a potential liberal. Meaning I'm only a conservative temporarily until our society is capable of handling the liberal revolution. (I'm mostly speaking about Indian society).

30 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Adults know how to properly balance the two.

You can't balance the two .

In the US, liberalism refers specifically to social liberalism and cultural liberalism, and it leans farther to the left than liberalism in other countries. while  Conservatism is derived from the traditions of a society, so American conservatism reflects the ideas of classical liberalism and Christian belief that were dominant in the early history of the US.

[zurew]

19 hours ago, Someone here said:

How do you dare respond to these mentalities? Which are you? Are you liberal or conservative? Are you an adult or a child? Do you blame others or yourself? Do guns kill people or do people kill people?

Why would you want to make this so adverserial and so loaded. Creating this thread the way you created it , can only end up two ways:

1. Ending up in circle jerk where all conservative people will agree with you and shit on all liberals without making any good arguments or without acttually breaking down such liberal arguments that are not low quality or strawmans.
2. Ending up in personal attacks where people who consider themselves as liberals will find this thread incredibly bad faith and full of strawman arguments

If you want to make a thread where high quality discussion can happen, then you need to carefully set up a ground for it, but what you did here is the exact opposite.

[Gesundheit2]

6 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Don't you realize that making guns illegal only disarms the law abiding citizens and empowers the criminal element?

It doesn't. There isn't a causational relationship there, despite the apparent correlation. The correlation is due to other factors, like corruption and lack of governmental control, not due to gun control.

6 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Look at the murder and crime rate in places that banned guns in USA (Chicago, New York, etc.)

If everyone was allowed to own guns, it would get many times worse.

[Devin]

19 hours ago, Someone here said:

A conservative will not hesitate to sentence the spree-shooter to a death sentence, and murder the murderer. Conservatives lean more toward eye-for-an-eye justice. It morally is acceptable to murder a murderer. And conservatives hate the victim-mentality. If a girl gets raped at a frat party then why was she there in the first place, getting drunk, and dressed like a skanky slut? She deserved it. Because she is responsible for herself. But liberals say: no, women are never responsible for rape, only men are. Conservatives reject this. Because conservatives support self-responsibility and dislike blaming others. If something bad happens to a woman or child then the woman or child should take some responsibility, or learn the hard way.
 

           So why blame murderers but not rapists? Isn't the murdered victim the same as a rape victim? Why not blame the murder victim too?

           Conservatives are narrow minded fear based, self based, Liberals are a wider perspective love based, collective based. Sure you can say childish vs adultish, but not in the noble sense of the terms, as Jesus said "be like children", the adultish you're using is not the wisdom type but the bitter old fear type of bitter old people, kid's are more fearless.

Edited March 1, 2023 by Devin

[Danioover9000]

@Someone here

20 hours ago, Someone here said:

Liberalism is the political ideology of children: self-irresponsibility, victim-mentality, blame others, spoilage, corruption, innocence etc 

Conservatism is the political ideology of adults: self-responsibility, anti-victim, blame self, moral, virtuous, wise.etc 

Do you disagree with this division? Explain why or why not in a detailed response.

Let me explain myself  :
Liberals blame "guns" for violence, not people. Because liberals refuse to believe that people are the cause (causal agents) of crimes. If a spree-shooter goes into a batman movie in the theater, and murders dozens of people, then the gun is the problem, not the spree-shooter. Liberalism blames objects, not subjects. Because subjects, humans, especially including women and children, are pure and innocent, never evil, and can never do harm. Even if a human becoming could do harm, in liberalism, then liberals would "forgive" this person immediately. Because liberals believe in absolute goodness of redemption. Liberals believe that all badness/evil can become "corrected" through indoctrination, education, and schooling (brainwashing). Liberals believe they can brainwash the world into goodness and happiness.

Conservatives blame people for violence, not guns. Because conservatives accept that people are causal agents; people are moral. People are capable of good and evil. A conservative will not hesitate to sentence the spree-shooter to a death sentence, and murder the murderer. Conservatives lean more toward eye-for-an-eye justice. It morally is acceptable to murder a murderer. And conservatives hate the victim-mentality. If a girl gets raped at a frat party then why was she there in the first place, getting drunk, and dressed like a skanky slut? She deserved it. Because she is responsible for herself. But liberals say: no, women are never responsible for rape, only men are. Conservatives reject this. Because conservatives support self-responsibility and dislike blaming others. If something bad happens to a woman or child then the woman or child should take some responsibility, or learn the hard way.


How do you dare respond to these mentalities? Which are you? Are you liberal or conservative? Are you an adult or a child? Do you blame others or yourself? Do guns kill people or do people kill people?

   You want a very clear, distinct example of the differences between an extreme conservative and extreme liberal mind? Watch the video below, skip to 6:00 if you want, and that's as clear as night and day to me:

   At 6:00 onwards, it really shows how a conservative mind with a religious worldview vs liberal mind that identifies as Bi handles sexuality and role play. Also, some explicit wordy descriptions of the situations.

Edited March 1, 2023 by Danioover9000

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

You can't balance the two .

You can't balance personal responsibility and compassionate care?

[Danioover9000]

@Carl-Richard

8 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

You can't balance personal responsibility and compassionate care?

   Of course you can balance the two, but it's context dependent. A poor person struggling for employment and mortgages, would very likely agree with the 'you can't balance both self responsibility and compassion for others' because they themselves are in a situation that they need to care for their selves firstly before extending that outwards to another person in need, in comparison to someone like Destiny or Mr. Beast who have enough financial security that they could lob side the balance towards compassion for others.

[Schizophonia]

what is a conservative person?