Lab leak theory needs to be reevaluated

[Epikur]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Russell Brand has lost it. He is so toxic. For all the bashing that happens of CNN, channels like Joe Rogan, Russell Brand, Jimmy Dore, etc are way worse than CNN in terms of how badly they misinform and bias their audience.

I think CNN helped a lot to make these guys big

Edited March 11, 2023 by Epikur

[How to be wise]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Russell Brand has lost it. He is so toxic. For all the bashing that happens of CNN, channels like Joe Rogan, Russell Brand, Jimmy Dore, etc are way worse than CNN in terms of how badly they misinform and bias their audience.

They’re doing it only because that’s what the audience wants, and they know it.

When Fox News told the truth about the 2020 election, their ratings went off a cliff. In order to get their audience back, they started pushing election denialism.

They are not misinforming their audience for the sake of it, they are telling the audience what they want to hear.

It’s the same with the Republican elections. The voters rejected establishment republicans in 2016, and voted for Donald Trump. The toxicity is not coming from the top down, it’s coming from the bottom up.

[Israfil]

I think the political environments are very relevant to this. I live in Brazil. Bolsonaro openly defended without any proof the use of Ivermectin and Chloroquine as a drug to treat Covid, which was obviously stupid in the eyes of anyone with more than two neurons. If those drugs were actually effective, this would be discovered in less than three months and the crisis wouldn't extend for so long.

I don't subscribe to any far-right anti-vax conspiracy, but the origin of the virus was something that always bothered me. Something very simple that would have given a lot of credibility for China is the answer to the question of who was the first patient(s), therefore clarifying the origin of the virus, or at least getting close to it. That was crucial evidence for developing vaccines and treatments, and I don't think that China wouldn't know who these people are. When I looked up the covid origin, the two main lines of thinking were the bat-eating contagion stuff and the lab leak theory.

Given that Wuhan's Virology Institute has the highest risk rating and its sanitary standards were criticized by some European Researchers, I leaned towards the possibility of lab, although I claim that no one can be certain about this. Given the conflict of interest between WHO and the Chinese government, we probably will never have enough direct evidence of the source of the virus. Maybe some genetic analysis or something in those lines can prove that the virus is lab originated, but I doubt that any agencies or governments have definite proof about this. Everyone who says that have proof is especulating here.  

[Devin]

54 minutes ago, Israfil said:

I think the political environments are very relevant to this. I live in Brazil. Bolsonaro openly defended without any proof the use of Ivermectin and Chloroquine as a drug to treat Covid, which was obviously stupid in the eyes of anyone with more than two neurons. If those drugs were actually effective, this would be discovered in less than three months and the crisis wouldn't extend for so long.

I don't subscribe to any far-right anti-vax conspiracy, but the origin of the virus was something that always bothered me. Something very simple that would have given a lot of credibility for China is the answer to the question of who was the first patient(s), therefore clarifying the origin of the virus, or at least getting close to it. That was crucial evidence for developing vaccines and treatments, and I don't think that China wouldn't know who these people are. When I looked up the covid origin, the two main lines of thinking were the bat-eating contagion stuff and the lab leak theory.

Given that Wuhan's Virology Institute has the highest risk rating and its sanitary standards were criticized by some European Researchers, I leaned towards the possibility of lab, although I claim that no one can be certain about this. Given the conflict of interest between WHO and the Chinese government, we probably will never have enough direct evidence of the source of the virus. Maybe some genetic analysis or something in those lines can prove that the virus is lab originated, but I doubt that any agencies or governments have definite proof about this. Everyone who says that have proof is especulating here.  

       Most of the first patients were from the wuhan seafood wholesale market. 

South China Morning Post

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3074991/coronavirus-chinas-first-confirmed-covid-19-case-traced-back

Coronavirus: China's first confirmed Covid-19 case traced back to November 17

Mar 13, 2020 — Government records suggest first person infected with new disease may have been a Hubei resident aged 55, but 'patient zero' has yet to

Edited March 14, 2023 by Devin

[Epikur]

The raccoon dog theory
 

 

[Devin]

36 minutes ago, Epikur said:

The raccoon dog theory
 

 

Do you think COVID was dangerous? Did you get vaccinated?

They've said racoon dogs since the beginning, in 2019 they got a positive match in the market where the dogs were, they were swabbing surfaces.

Edited March 20, 2023 by Devin

[Epikur]

18 minutes ago, Devin said:

Do you think COVID was dangerous? Did you get vaccinated? They've said racoon dogs since the beginning, in 2019 they got a positive match in the market where the dogs were, they were swabbing surfaces.

I did not create covid why do you investigate me? I did nothing wrong.

So raccoon dog theory says what exactly?

 

[Devin]

10 minutes ago, Epikur said:

I did not create covid why do you investigate me? I did nothing wrong.
 

        Well my point is most of you gain of function people are very contradictory in your stances, you from the start of the pandemic say it isn't dangerous, now you want to investigate china, for.... what? A non dangerous virus? Gain of function research is legal, public information, and accepted, so.... why investigate the.... flu?

10 minutes ago, Epikur said:

So raccoon dog theory says what exactly?

       The first sars outbreak was found in bats, MERS in camels, animals don't go to the hospital when they're sick or stay home from work in quarantine for two weeks, they spread these diseases like wildfire which eventually sometimes causes a mutation into a more dangerous virus or one more easily transmissible to humans. They find bats and raccoon dogs all the time with different sars viruses, the theory is one in the market had it and humans caught it from it.

       Racoon dog fur is huge business in China, they're an invasive species and their fur is desirable.

Edited March 20, 2023 by Devin

[Israfil]

On 14/03/2023 at 6:29 PM, Devin said:

       Most of the first patients were from the wuhan seafood wholesale market. 

South China Morning Post

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3074991/coronavirus-chinas-first-confirmed-covid-19-case-traced-back

Coronavirus: China's first confirmed Covid-19 case traced back to November 17

Mar 13, 2020 — Government records suggest first person infected with new disease may have been a Hubei resident aged 55, but 'patient zero' has yet to

China has been dodgy with the data of the source of Covid. A leak was necessary so they could release more information.

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/chinese-data-covid-19-early-days-gives-clues-origins-report-2023-03-21/ 

[Danioover9000]

@Israfil

11 minutes ago, Israfil said:

China has been dodgy with the data of the source of Covid. A leak was necessary so they could release more information.

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/chinese-data-covid-19-early-days-gives-clues-origins-report-2023-03-21/ 

   What do you expect? China is China after all.

[Devin]

17 minutes ago, Israfil said:

China has been dodgy with the data of the source of Covid. 

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/chinese-data-covid-19-early-days-gives-clues-origins-report-2023-03-21/ 

Yes they announced in 2020 they were cutting off the international community from the investigation because Trump started blaming them without even any evidence.

Edited March 21, 2023 by Devin

[Israfil]

10 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Israfil

   What do you expect? China is China after all.

I expect nothing. I'm just stating the fact that they didn't deliver the evidence of a market origin openly.

 

6 minutes ago, Devin said:

Yes they announced in 2020 they were cutting off the international community from the investigation because Trump started blaming them without even any evidence.

Showing to the world that Trump was wrong would heavily tip international opinion in China's favor. If there wasn't a lab leak, giving the evidence that there wasn't one as quickly as possible would be great for China. The way that they alienate themselves in those moments just worsens the public opinion of them. 

[Devin]

2 minutes ago, Israfil said:

I expect nothing. I'm just stating the fact that they didn't deliver the evidence of a market origin openly.

 

Showing to the world that Trump was wrong would heavily tip international opinion in China's favor. If there wasn't a lab leak, giving the evidence that there wasn't one as quickly as possible would be great for China. The way that they alienate themselves in those moments just worsens the public opinion of them. 

The only people that care if there was a lab leak are anti-vaxxers, China doesn't care at all to try to win them over.

[Epikur]

1 hour ago, Devin said:

The only people that care if there was a lab leak are anti-vaxxers, China doesn't care at all to try to win them over.

Wrong

[Devin]

17 minutes ago, Epikur said:

Wrong

      Why at all does it matter if it was a lab leak? It's not like the rest of the world can tell china to stop gain of function research, it's not like they try to say they don't do gain of function research, they do, the u.s. does, and so does germany.

Edited March 21, 2023 by Devin

[Epikur]

28 minutes ago, Devin said:

      Why at all does it matter if it was a lab leak? It's not like the rest of the world can tell china to stop gain of function research, it's not like they try to say they don't do gain of function research, they do, the u.s. does, and so does germany.

It matters for some that Fauci lied and did the cover up and the establishment ran willingly with it.

[Devin]

Just now, Epikur said:

It matters for some that Fauci lied and did the cover up and the establishment ran willingly with it.

Why would China care about them? It matters only to anti vaxxers. Fauci said from the beginning it could have been a lab leak, just that all current evidence suggests otherwise.

[Devin]

 

[Epikur]

6 minutes ago, Devin said:

 

Yeah right. Fauci said there is no 100 percent garantie that the lab leak theory is wrong. So it could be 0.00001 chance for Fauci and that opinion makes him so open minded. Right.



That is how a totally open minded guy sounds. Never mind him pressuring scientists to be silent against the lab leak theory.

Quote

May 4, 2020In his strongest statement yet against the theories of a genetically engineered virus, Fauci tells National Geographic in an interview he’s “very, very strongly leaning toward this could not have been artificially or deliberately manipulated” and adds all signs indicate the virus “evolved in nature and then jumped species.”

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackbrewster/2021/06/16/heres-what-dr-fauci-has-said-about-covids-origins-and-the-lab-leak-theory/?sh=222bb7d1a853
 

Quote

Dr. Anthony Fauci on Wednesday again pushed back on criticism he “deliberately suppressed” the theory that Covid-19 originated in a lab in Wuhan, China, claiming he’s always kept an “open mind” about how the virus first spread—but a review of his comments over the last year shows the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, like other scientists, has become more open to other theories even as he continues to assert, like the majority of scientists, that the virus likely came about naturally

 

[Devin]

47 minutes ago, Epikur said:

Yeah right. Fauci said there is no 100 percent garantie that the lab leak theory is wrong. So it could be 0.00001 chance for Fauci and that opinion makes him so open minded. Right.



That is how a totally open minded guy sounds. Never mind him pressuring scientists to be silent against the lab leak theory.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackbrewster/2021/06/16/heres-what-dr-fauci-has-said-about-covids-origins-and-the-lab-leak-theory/?sh=222bb7d1a853
 

 

Do you think it's likely that it came from racoon dogs?

Edited March 21, 2023 by Devin