Lab leak theory needs to be reevaluated

[How to be wise]

I’m not saying it’s definitely true. But this is no longer a fringe conspiracy theory. It needs to be entertained. 
 

 

[Devin]

      Why? It was always considered possible, not a fringe conspiracy theory, the contempt for the conspiracy theorist was that they were repeating it with certainty, "convicting before a fair trial".

      China has a known bioweapons program. They were known to be researching sars vaccines at that facility, so there's  little more reason to lie than to just save face about poor safety protocols at the lab which were already known as well.

 

"Members of the US intelligence community heavily suspect that the state of China had, as of 2015, at least 42 facilities that may be involved in research, development, production, or testing of biological agents.[3][4]"

 

 

Voice of America

www.voanews.com

Chinese Lab with Checkered Safety Record Draws Scrutiny over COVID-19

Apr 21, 2020 — Wuhan Lab was cited by Chinese and US officials for safety violations, feeding suspicion it played a role in outbreak

[spiritual memes]

Fair enough, but you have to entertain both sides.

[Tanz]

They are only bringing up the lab leak because it meets their agenda to start a war with China.  They should not have discredited this theory because many countries have been making bioweapons for a long time.  Gain of function research has also been admitted way before the pandemic, it's not a far-fetched idea that a virus can just "accidentally" come out.  

I hope in the future, if this same problem arises, voices are not censored, and scientific inquiry becomes a thing rather than outsourcing the problem to one company when the actual solution brings them profit.  Finding a cure would probably be much faster if they can find the source of the problem.  

Edited February 28, 2023 by Tanz

[How to be wise]

I’m not saying this was intentionally spread by the Chinese. Rather that the virus accidentally spread to one of the scientists, and spread from there.

[Devin]

1 minute ago, How to be wise said:

I’m not saying this was intentionally spread by the Chinese. Rather that the virus accidentally spread to one of the scientists, and spread from there.

Yeah, Wuhan is actually a large city though, it's the largest in central China, a trade hub to boot. All of the workers tested negative for it and it stays traceable for at least 6 months in you.

[How to be wise]

3 minutes ago, Devin said:

Yeah, Wuhan is actually a large city though, it's the largest in central China, a trade hub to boot. All of the workers tested negative for it and it stays traceable for at least 6 months in you.

That’s what the WIV told the WHO. WHO did not confirm that,

In early 2020, there were news reports that workers at the WIV became sick with COVID-like symptoms. 

Do the math.

[Devin]

12 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

That’s what the WIV told the WHO. WHO did not confirm that,

In early 2020, there were news reports that workers at the WIV became sick with COVID-like symptoms. 

Do the math.

It's what China is releasing, true, I'm obviously giving them the benefit of the doubt. There is a good chance it came from the lab I don't mean to say there isn't. It's just coincidences do happen, and I'm not going to support a witch trial with only circumstantial evidence.

 

"Outside the formal WHO-led process, some studies proposed for phase two have gone ahead. In May last year, researchers in Beijing and Wuhan published the results1 of an analysis of donor blood supplied to the Wuhan Blood Center before December 2019. The researchers were looking for SARS-CoV-2 antibodies that could signify some of the earliest infections in the pandemic. The team screened more than 88,000 plasma samples collected between 1 September and 31 December 2019, but did not find any SARS-CoV-2-blocking antibodies in the"

[Epikur]

6 hours ago, Devin said:

      Why? It was always considered possible, not a fringe conspiracy theory, the contempt for the conspiracy theorist was that they were repeating it with certainty, "convicting before a fair trial".

      China has a known bioweapons program. They were known to be researching sars vaccines at that facility, so there's  little more reason to lie than to just save face about poor safety protocols at the lab which were already known as well.

 

"Members of the US intelligence community heavily suspect that the state of China had, as of 2015, at least 42 facilities that may be involved in research, development, production, or testing of biological agents.[3][4]"

 

 

Voice of America

www.voanews.com

Chinese Lab with Checkered Safety Record Draws Scrutiny over COVID-19

Apr 21, 2020 — Wuhan Lab was cited by Chinese and US officials for safety violations, feeding suspicion it played a role in outbreak

No.

COVERUP: Fauci, China, Harvard Suppressed Lab Leak | Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
 

 

Edited February 28, 2023 by Epikur

[Devin]

9 minutes ago, Epikur said:

No.

COVERUP: Fauci, China, Harvard Suppressed Lab Leak | Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
 

 

 

9 minutes ago, Epikur said:

No.

COVERUP: Fauci, China, Harvard Suppressed Lab Leak | Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
 

 

 

They said it's not likely to have started in the lab, that's not saying it didn't.

[Epikur]

@Devin

Did you watch the video? Why is he talking about a cover up?

[Leo Gura]

7 hours ago, Devin said:

Why? It was always considered possible, not a fringe conspiracy theory, the contempt for the conspiracy theorist was that they were repeating it with certainty, "convicting before a fair trial".

This.

The issue is that conspiracy theorists are always jumping to conclusions and then exaggerting things to fuel their twisted worldview.

Lab leak is a possibility and we still don't exactly know. But people act like their know everything and then further ascribe bad motives and reach for twisted conclusions.

Edited February 28, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Devin]

26 minutes ago, Epikur said:

@Devin

Did you watch the video? Why is he talking about a cover up?

      I will say because he's being mislead by technical terms and a science he knows very little about.

[Epikur]

Just now, Devin said:

      I will say because he's being mislead by technical terms and a science he knows very little about.

You said

Quote

Why? It was always considered possible, not a fringe conspiracy theory,

Quote

'Huge Problem' Lab Leak Theory Was Dismissed as Conspiracy: Ex-WHO Adviser

https://www.newsweek.com/huge-problem-lab-leak-theory-was-dismissed-conspiracy-ex-who-adviser-1784177

I think you are wrong. It was dismissed as conspiracy theory. Or do you still think it was not regarded as such?

 

[Devin]

1 minute ago, Epikur said:

You said

https://www.newsweek.com/huge-problem-lab-leak-theory-was-dismissed-conspiracy-ex-who-adviser-1784177

I think you are wrong. It was dismissed as conspiracy theory. Or do you still think it was not regarded as such?

 

It was considered as unlikely if that's what you mean, and it still is.

 

 

[Epikur]

21 minutes ago, Devin said:

It was considered as unlikely if that's what you mean, and it still is.

 

 

No it was considered highly unlikey. You said it was not seen as fringe, conspiracy theory. I brought evidence that it has been.

From 2021on the media corrected their 'conspiracy' claim
 

Quote

The media called the ‘lab leak’ story a ‘conspiracy theory.’ Now it’s prompted corrections — and serious new reporting.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/media/the-media-called-the-lab-leak-story-a-conspiracy-theory-now-its-prompted-corrections--and-serious-new-reporting/2021/06/10/c93972e6-c7b2-11eb-a11b-6c6191ccd599_story.html

 

Quote

According to Paul Thacker (writing for the British Medical Journal), some scientists and reporters said that "objective consideration of COVID-19's origins went awry early in the pandemic, as researchers who were funded to study viruses with pandemic potential launched a campaign labelling the lab leak hypothesis as a 'conspiracy theory.'"[25] In February 2020, a letter was published in The Lancet authored by 27 scientists and spearheaded by Peter Daszak which described some alternate origin ideas as "conspiracy theories".[171] Filippa Lentzos said some scientists "closed ranks" as a result, fearing for their careers and grants.[25] The letter was criticized by Jamie Metzl for "scientific propaganda and thuggery",[172] and by Katherine Eban as having had a "chilling effect" on scientific research and the scientific community by implying that scientists who "bring up the lab-leak theory ... are doing the work of conspiracy theorists".[173][106]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_lab_leak_theory

Quote

New York Times, MSNBC, CNN slammed for claiming COVID lab leak theory was ‘debunked’
https://nypost.com/2023/02/28/new-york-times-msnbc-cnn-slammed-over-debunked-lab-leak-theory/

Quote

COVID Lab Leak 'Conspiracy Theorists' Demand Apologies After Revelations
 

AU.S. Department of Energy (DOE) report has concluded that COVID-19 most likely came from a Chinese laboratory, prompting those branded 'conspiracy theorists' for believing as such to demand an apology after being previously brushed off and belittled.

On Sunday, the Wall Street Journal wrote, citing sources who have read a new classified report, that the federal department had judged with "low confidence" that the deadly virus could have emerged from a mishap at a lab in the Chinese city of Wuhan.

 

https://www.newsweek.com/covid-lab-leak-conspiracy-theorists-demand-apologies-energy-department-report-1784008




 

[Devin]

5 minutes ago, Epikur said:

No it was considered highly unlikey. You said it was not seen as fringe, conspiracy theory. I brought evidence that it has been.

From 2021on the media corrected their 'conspiracy' claim
 

 

https://www.newsweek.com/covid-lab-leak-conspiracy-theorists-demand-apologies-energy-department-report-1784008




 

Yes, saying it came from the lab is a conspiracy theory, that's different than saying it may have come from the lab, or the department of energy saying, "with low confidence, it likely came from the lab".

[Epikur]

49 minutes ago, Devin said:

Yes, saying it came from the lab is a conspiracy theory, that's different than saying it may have come from the lab, or the department of energy saying, "with low confidence, it likely came from the lab".

No the lab leak theorie was not regarded as a theory. It was regarded as a conspiracy theory. That is why the media made a 180 and stopped calling the lab leak theory conspiracy theory. They admitted that they did make an error. Same with the scientists.
 

Quote

 27 scientists and spearheaded by Peter Daszak which described some alternate origin ideas as "conspiracy theories".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_lab_leak_theory

Here the the scientists described alternate origin ideas as conspiracy theories. It means looking at it as a theorie is conspiracy theory in their eyes.


 

Quote

COVID lab leak is a scandal of media and government censorship
https://nypost.com/2023/02/26/covid-lab-leak-is-a-scandal-of-media-and-government-censorship/

Quote

Jon Stewart spoke about the backlash he received from the left after he discussed the potential that COVID-19 originated in a Chinese lab during an interview with Stephen Colbert in 2021.

At the time, Stewart was essentially written off as a has-been and a conspiracy theorist by people on his own side of the aisle after he said on “The Late Show” he believed it was likely the coronavirus had escaped a lab in the city where it was first discovered.

His comments took on a new significance Sunday when The Wall Street Journal reported the Department of Energy concluded it was “most likely” the pandemic originated in a lab in Wuhan, China.

https://thelibertyloft.com/2023/02/28/watch-jon-stewart-is-fuming-after-gov-report-revealed-wuhan-lab-leak-theory-most-likely-im-done/

 

Edited February 28, 2023 by Epikur

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Epikur said:

No the lab leak theorie was not regarded as a theory. It was regarded as a conspiracy theory.

It was regarded as such because it was spouted by reactionary right-wing nuts as part of their anti-vaxism and populism. Same as the Hunter Biden story.

Do not act like these people were doing any serious truth-seeking. They were mostly making nationalist rants against China in order to backwards rationalize their not getting vaccinated. This is not honest truth-seeking, it's bad-faith partisanship.

Edited March 1, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Danioover9000]

   I guess, going forward with this into the future, countries should start doing the following:

1. Do better, more secure gains of research. Maybe underground facilities or remote Islands, so to contain any accidental leak.

2. Start to do less and less gains of research, or relegate gains of research only as needed against viruses or mutations from nature.

   More importantly: DON'T BE FULLY CERTAIN! You can jump to conclusions sometimes, as some people are not hyper logical, but it's the embellishing and overhyping of the conclusion, maybe the fetish and idealizing of a problem by 10x or more, when it's really 2x or less. Once the ego mind has attached and created narratives that give meanings to that conclusion, it goes downhill.