Passion of 10

[Emerald]

Just now, mr_engineer said:

@Emerald

So, from a woman's perspective, it's a big pyramid-scheme. Am I right?! 

It's like 'I want the status I get with him cuz he's desirable to other women' and everyone's thinking that. The value of the man is being deferred to what the other party thinks of him, by both parties! (By 'party' I mean woman) 

I’m not sure about the pyramid scheme thing. It all really comes down to looking for validation and a cure for shame.

Status-seeking men are looking to be validated by attractive women and vica versa with status-seeking women.

I once read a blog by this young woman who was relatively attractive. And she was operating off the notion that if she has a high status guy interested in her, that it means she’s a high status woman.

And she was talking about sleeping with a guy for that reason. But she didn’t really think of what this implied about her self-esteem and why she needed to feel high status in the first place.

So, I could see someone with that coping mechanism trying to gather social proof about the status of a guy.

[mr_engineer]

@Emerald It would be a pyramid-scheme. Because the 'high-status' is by proxy! And, who is that proxy?! Similar women. 

This is how Andrew Tate's thing would work. 

[Roy]

7 hours ago, StarStruck said:

I'm a very loving person and I want to date and have sex with beautiful females and I'm not ashamed about it.

Exactly man, don't feel guilty for an authentic desire. Especially when you are actively trying to improve yourself and be a quality partner to someone you want in your life (a beautiful girl + that has a lifestyle/personality you like I'm guessing). There is nothing wrong about it if these are your motives and you aren't just doing it for the lulz and to abuse/use people, which I'm going to assume you aren't looking to do?

The entire criticism of your motives has (I HATE to use this word) gaslighting vibes to it and is honestly fucking stupid nonsense on it's face. The idea that you should feel guilty or ashamed of being attracted to what you are calling a "10", is laughable. On a side note the number rating system is just an unfortunate cultural byproduct that is a little reductive obviously, but it's effective colloquial communication. Anybody who plants a flag that it's purely a materialistic thing is arguing in bad faith and is probably just salty.

It reeks of entitlement that women twist what should be taken as compliment and try to make you feel bad for being attracted to them or someone else, something that isn't even your fault or you're responsible for by the way. It's a purely biological coincidence for men that when you see someone if you find them (physically) attractive or not, you literally do not get a choice in the matter. They have an assumption it's purely a materialistic reductionism, and while it is for the most low consciousness hedonistic slobs, they only represent a fraction of men. Only savages can't put the urge to rape someone for their looks aside, the rest of us men understand there are steps between seeing someone you find attractive and getting them to have sex with you/be in a relationship. Which includes talking to and treating them as a human.

Logically it doesn't even make sense either to think rating someone for their looks is being shallow, since before you can even have any verbal exchange to learn about their personality you need to literally see them with your eyes. This includes online dating where people are putting up images of themselves which you see on a profile before you can even get access to chat with them. The fact they introduce such mind games and confusion into the fold for something as innocuous and positive as, "I find this person really pretty, or I'd like to have sex with this person, or this girl is a 10!" should tell you everything. Stand your ground and don't trust what they say basically.

It's as if they are offended that the WRONG men are attracted to them, like you need to pre-qualify to even be granted the CHANCE to be interested in them lol. "While you were looking we scanned your retinas and dug up your credit score, I'm sorry but you aren't even allowed to DREAM of buying this car." 

I'm sorry but that is such bullshit I need to call it out no matter how I end up sounding in this post. Even if a creep that you wouldn't sleep with in the million years is attracted to you, it's still a compliment. The primary emotion in the equation should be flattery, with disgust being near the bottom of the list.

I remember Leo saying in a video on the topic sometime ago he wished he could be truly authentic and just walk up to a girl he likes and say, "You're gorgeous and I want to fuck you." But he can't because that would get him or any other guy arrested. ***Except Leonardo DiCaprio right ladies *** 

However we don't live in that world, we live in clown world where everything is backwards and nobody can be real with each other. You need to jump through a gauntlet of mental gymnastics and ridiculously difficult social games (that women create) just to communicate basic desires, while accusal of malicious intent is floating in the background the entire time.

Every guy wants to just be able to pursue what they want and not feel like shit for it. The only difference between a guy that will use you and treat you like garbage, and a guy that will respect you and treat you well is their personality. At the end of the day they still BOTH want to fuck you (which again, is a bloody compliment).

Edited March 2, 2023 by Roy

[Emerald]

@Roy Did you write your above post in relation to what I was saying about my sorting men from consideration who are  overtly fixated upon women’s looks?

If so, you’re misrepresenting what I was saying.

I’m not shaming men for their attractions.

There is no issue with men being visually attracted to women. That’s just part of it. And all heterosexual men will be attracted to a 10.

And it’s not about trying to get guys to be attracted to who they’re not attracted to. That’s also not what I’m saying. It wouldn’t even be possible.

It’s the reduction of women to their looks and their ability to provide the man status in the eyes of other men that is the boundary line for me.

It just comes across as immature because these guys are using relationships with women for status seeking. So, that’s off-putting.

And it’s a liability to be with a guy who’s very looks focused because looks fade with age.

So, if you want a partner to go through your days with, it’s wise to sort men from consideration who are hyper-looks focused who want to seek status in the male hierarchy through the conquest of attractive women. 

And that’s not just a fraction of guys. These men are a sizable enough minority that they are everywhere. And they create all sorts of internet echo chambers. 

And it is wise for women to sort them from consideration. 

I would imagine you’d also sort women from consideration who were super focused on male status and always trying to collectively strategize to get the guy with the most money.

I’ll mirror some things that I read on this thread to give you the sense.

Like imagine a bunch of women on this forum got together and created a thread and were egging eachother on to land a rich guy or simply to get rich men to give them some of their money.

And we’d be encouraging eachother through our feelings of insecurity that all women can get a high status money bag with enough inner work and the development of game.

And when the men criticize us for objectifying them, the women will share the “harsh biological truth” that women are wired to be attracted to resources and status and that men are wired to give women those resources because of their natural provider role. I mean… it’s just biology. Right?

And we’d remind them that women’s status is a given from birth, but men have to earn their keep through shows of status and wealth.

And upon hearing this narrative play out, you’d be wise to sort these women from consideration because that would be a huge red flag.

And it’s quite a bit different than the natural attraction that arises in relation to men who generally have their life together.

The same is true for men who are simply attracted to women’s looks.

Neither reduces the person down to just that.

[PenguinPablo]

11 hours ago, StarStruck said:

Would I rather have a highly conscious 7 or an average 10? It really depends in which phase of my life I’m. At this moment I value a 10 more than a 7 because that is just where I’m at and it is nothing wrong with that.

Females are trophies so if I can get 10/10 that will mean I broke the genetic code: I get to breed with the top shelf if I want.  After having dated 10’s I will find out they are shallow and I might aim for high conscious females but time will show how this process will develop. 

Females decide who gets to breed and who not. If you are a hot female it doesn’t matter which social class you are in: You can date up and fuck up. While it does matter for a guy in which social class he is born; but not every guy has that luck while if you are a hot female it doesn’t matter. 

Females are the ones who are hypergamous and judge men on their social status and power. Don’t try to turn this around. Males are not hypergamous, they are the true romantics and just look at a girl’s face and heart, while girls look at other things.  Even in this topic you can see how judgemental females are of the male perspective while they would never date/fuck down, only fuck/date up. 

@StarStruck

everything the girl's is this thread went Mt Everest peak levels over your head 

 

@Lila9 @Emerald Not only the things you mentioned. But we're doomed if we continue to view each other as mere trophies. that sort of narcissistic objectification is very isolating for both the recipient and the giver. That's just not a sustainable way for us humans to relate to one another.

Edited March 2, 2023 by PenguinPablo

[StarStruck]

7 hours ago, Emerald said:

I am specifically stating my female bias (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) to recommend to any female readers to sort men from consideration who are super fixated upon looks. 

If a young inexperienced woman or girl comes on here and reads this thread with tons of men reducing women’s value to looks and saying all this stuff about how women can’t change her value because it’s looks-based, she may not yet realize that she doesn’t have to play that game to be loved by a man. 

And she may not yet realize that more mature guys exist and she will think that looks are all men care about.

And so I clearly state my boundaries as an average looking woman in her 30s as it pertains to red flag behaviors around fixation on looks to encourage inexperienced women to be more selective and to realize that they’re not in a place of scarcity.

And they don’t have to settle for a guy who is immature in this way who only sees her as a trophy.

Fair enough but you only cater to female mating strategies which are different from male mating strategies. In the same way you tell girls to judge males on this and that, we judge females on our own way.  I don't think this forum should cater to female mating strategies alone.

Obviously this forum is a SD green bubble so I do get that it can be distressing for some to reading these truths but outside of the bubble what I say is mainstream knowledge. The world doesn't revolve around SD green! You already said that majority of men think like me but CONTEMPLATE why that is? Because females REWARD a certain type of men: I would love be just a studious dork and be with girls but that is not being rewarded by hot females. I get this narrative is not appeasing to high consciousness females who are a little bit older but they should aim for a different type of guy like you say yourself. If you are 30 as a female you won't have the same dating options as when you were 20, and I'm not saying that to bully females I'm saying that because this forum is based on truth and not appeasement of emotions.

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How do they find out you have trauma? And how do they treat you? I need the specifics here.

Last week I met another beautiful lady in a dance school. We were very much into each other and we were having a great time, dancing, talking and having fun. But something happened that happens a lot: I felt like she was too good for me, and I started second guessing, stuttering, being in my head, and eventually I told her I was going to the bathroom and then acted like she didn't exist. After a while i decided to go back to her and she was cold to me. Obviously she didn't do anything wrong; I gave her a mixed signals and acted weird. This only happens if I really like a girl and I think it has to do with my mother who didn't love me enough. But in general my experience with top shelf girls is that being heavy hearted (due to trauma) or having insecurities is punished heavily. I'm not bitter about it, I understand it and I'm working on it.

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This isn’t how women think or operate.

Value scanning is usually intuitive and silent. It’s pretty much a background emotional process as opposed to a conscious intellectual process.

True, I wasn't contesting that.

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There’s nothing wrong with being attracted to and wanting to sleep with pretty women.

But if a guy is going on about that as his goal, then most of those women are going to sort him from consideration.

My biggest goal is self development, trauma healing, and becoming a more loving person. It just happens that beautiful girls trigger my traumas so that is what I'm focusing on.

Edited March 2, 2023 by StarStruck

[StarStruck]

4 hours ago, Roy said:

Exactly man, don't feel guilty for an authentic desire. Especially when you are actively trying to improve yourself and be a quality partner to someone you want in your life (a beautiful girl + that has a lifestyle/personality you like I'm guessing). There is nothing wrong about it if these are your motives and you aren't just doing it for the lulz and to abuse/use people, which I'm going to assume you aren't looking to do?

I'm too soft hearted and I don't trust myself enough. But I found a fix:

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The entire criticism of your motives has (I HATE to use this word) gaslighting vibes to it and is honestly fucking stupid nonsense on it's face. The idea that you should feel guilty or ashamed of being attracted to what you are calling a "10", is laughable. On a side note the number rating system is just an unfortunate cultural byproduct that is a little reductive obviously, but it's effective colloquial communication. Anybody who plants a flag that it's purely a materialistic thing is arguing in bad faith and is probably just salty.

I'm not ASHAMED of being a red blooded male. Feminists are really toxic, they are trying turn the tables. It is the FEMALES that are HYPERGAMOUS and judge males ruthlessly. Most guys are good hearted romantics, they just want a girl pretty face and good heart but females demand much more from the guy. And they UNASHAMEDLY come to this topic and try to turn the tables on us. The audacity..

Quote

It reeks of entitlement that women twist what should be taken as compliment and try to make you feel bad for being attracted to them or someone else, something that isn't even your fault or you're responsible for by the way. It's a purely biological coincidence for men that when you see someone if you find them (physically) attractive or not, you literally do not get a choice in the matter. They have an assumption it's purely a materialistic reductionism, and while it is for the most low consciousness hedonistic slobs, they only represent a fraction of men. Only savages can't put the urge to rape someone for their looks aside, the rest of us men understand there are steps between seeing someone you find attractive and getting them to have sex with you/be in a relationship. Which includes talking to and treating them as a human.

Logically it doesn't even make sense either to think rating someone for their looks is being shallow, since before you can even have any verbal exchange to learn about their personality you need to literally see them with your eyes. This includes online dating where people are putting up images of themselves which you see on a profile before you can even get access to chat with them. The fact they introduce such mind games and confusion into the fold for something as innocuous and positive as, "I find this person really pretty, or I'd like to have sex with this person, or this girl is a 10!" should tell you everything. Stand your ground and don't trust what they say basically.

Every guy wants to just be able to pursue what they want and not feel like shit for it. The only difference between a guy that will use you and treat you like garbage, and a guy that will respect you and treat you well is their personality. At the end of the day they still BOTH want to fuck you (which again, is a bloody compliment).

It's as if they are offended that the WRONG men are attracted to them, like you need to pre-qualify to even be granted the CHANCE to be interested in them lol. "While you were looking we scanned your retinas and dug up your credit score, I'm sorry but you aren't even allowed to DREAM of buying this car." 

I'm sorry but that is such bullshit I need to call it out no matter how I end up sounding in this post. Even if a creep that you wouldn't sleep with in the million years is attracted to you, it's still a compliment. The primary emotion in the equation should be flattery, with disgust being near the bottom of the list.

I remember Leo saying in a video on the topic sometime ago he wished he could be truly authentic and just walk up to a girl he likes and say, "You're gorgeous and I want to fuck you." But he can't because that would get him or any other guy arrested. ***Except Leonardo DiCaprio right ladies *** 

However we don't live in that world, we live in clown world where everything is backwards and nobody can be real with each other. You need to jump through a gauntlet of mental gymnastics and ridiculously difficult social games (that women create) just to communicate basic desires, while accusal of malicious intent is floating in the background the entire time.

It is like 20% of the top shelf guys get to fuck 80% of the girls. There is a huge segment of guys who are sexless, loveless and depressed but I don't see feminists talk about these guys because they don't give two flying fucks. Those guys can die (not breed) because they don't meet the female dating strategy.

Edited March 2, 2023 by StarStruck

[Devin]

4 hours ago, Emerald said:

@Roy Did you write your above post in relation to what I was saying about my sorting men from consideration who are  overtly fixated upon women’s looks?

If so, you’re misrepresenting what I was saying.

I’m not shaming men for their attractions.

There is no issue with men being visually attracted to women. That’s just part of it. And all heterosexual men will be attracted to a 10.

And it’s not about trying to get guys to be attracted to who they’re not attracted to. That’s also not what I’m saying. It wouldn’t even be possible.

It’s the reduction of women to their looks and their ability to provide the man status in the eyes of other men that is the boundary line for me.

It just comes across as immature because these guys are using relationships with women for status seeking. So, that’s off-putting.

And it’s a liability to be with a guy who’s very looks focused because looks fade with age.

So, if you want a partner to go through your days with, it’s wise to sort men from consideration who are hyper-looks focused who want to seek status in the male hierarchy through the conquest of attractive women. 

And that’s not just a fraction of guys. These men are a sizable enough minority that they are everywhere. And they create all sorts of internet echo chambers. 

And it is wise for women to sort them from consideration. 

I would imagine you’d also sort women from consideration who were super focused on male status and always trying to collectively strategize to get the guy with the most money.

I’ll mirror some things that I read on this thread to give you the sense.

Like imagine a bunch of women on this forum got together and created a thread and were egging eachother on to land a rich guy or simply to get rich men to give them some of their money.

And we’d be encouraging eachother through our feelings of insecurity that all women can get a high status money bag with enough inner work and the development of game.

And when the men criticize us for objectifying them, the women will share the “harsh biological truth” that women are wired to be attracted to resources and status and that men are wired to give women those resources because of their natural provider role. I mean… it’s just biology. Right?

And we’d remind them that women’s status is a given from birth, but men have to earn their keep through shows of status and wealth.

And upon hearing this narrative play out, you’d be wise to sort these women from consideration because that would be a huge red flag.

And it’s quite a bit different than the natural attraction that arises in relation to men who generally have their life together.

The same is true for men who are simply attracted to women’s looks.

Neither reduces the person down to just that.

           I again think you're extrapolating too much, a woman admitting she selects men largely based on social status is not a red flag, if she's a disloyal narcissist those are red flags, but if she's loyal and compassionate and admits that's a huge factor for her then it's a green flag, it show's she's upfront honest and understands herself. She won't admit it due to neo-feminism though.

            A woman choosing by status or a man choosing by looks does not mean they will leave should that attribute be lost, loyalty is completely separate from these mate selectors. You're looking at caricatures; the gold digger and playboy, those are the minority, and easily recognized by narcissism, dishonesty, and manipulation.

Edited March 2, 2023 by Devin

[Devin]

2 hours ago, Lila9 said:

I think that many men aren't aware that there are other important factors to consider when choosing a partner, that's why I wrote that they should have better standards (in addition to the physical attraction, not as a replacement) if they want women to see them as high-value and have more authentic, happy and fulfilling relationships.

Yes, exactly. This kind of talk doesn't bring any healthy solutions and only keeps us more and more apart as humans.

             I strongly suggest 'Men are from Mars Women are from Venus', you're looking at men like they're women, Men truly are as simple as they seem, they do not need emotional or spiritual compatibility, some do but it's like 0.5%.

[something_else]

16 minutes ago, Devin said:

they do not need emotional or spiritual compatibility

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Are you trying to speedrun divorce with this strategy? 

Just wait til you're in a long-term relationship with a woman you're not compatible with emotionally/spiritually and see how miserable it makes you, no matter how pretty she is. Yea, guys can detach and fuck just about any woman without needing emotional compatibility, but if you want anything remotely long-term, those are extremely important factors. For something long term, sacrificing some looks for compatibility is an obvious choice.

If you can't see that, you're probably going to end up old and miserable.

I think every guy should go out and fuck really hot women, it grows you as a man. But that's different from a more mature relationship. Once you actually want to start building something long term and sustainable, you need someone who is compatible.

Edited March 2, 2023 by something_else

[Devin]

24 minutes ago, something_else said:

Are you trying to speedrun divorce with this strategy? 

Just wait til you're in a long-term relationship with a woman you're not compatible with emotionally/spiritually and see how miserable it makes you, no matter how pretty she is. Yea, guys can detach and fuck just about any woman without needing emotional compatibility, but if you want anything remotely long-term, those are extremely important factors. For something long term, sacrificing some looks for compatibility is an obvious choice.

If you can't see that, you're probably going to end up old and miserable.

I think every guy should go out and fuck really hot women, it grows you as a man. But that's different from a more mature relationship. Once you actually want to start building something long term and sustainable, you need someone who is compatible.

           Take 80% of women in the dating pool, they all have enough "emotional/spiritual" compatibility for 95% of men. The red flag is narcissism or stupidity, not emotional/spiritual compatibility.

          In terms of divorce though a woman needs that compatibility, sure the couple needs compatibility, because the woman needs it. I was just stating male needs.

Edited March 2, 2023 by Devin

[something_else]

11 minutes ago, Devin said:

Take 80% of women in the dating pool, they all have enough "emotional/spiritual" compatibility for 95% of men. The red flag is narcissism or stupidity, not emotional/spiritual compatibility.

 

 

You just pulled those numbers out of your ass my friend 

Yea maybe guys can look at 80% of the women in the dating pool and say "I'd have sex with her" but that doesn't mean after the novelty of sex goes away that they'd actually be emotionally compatible and enjoy spending time together. 

To say that any man could spend the rest of his life happily with 80% of the women in the dating pool is really pretty absurd. Humans are so vastly diverse that such a statement is just not true.

[Devin]

1 hour ago, something_else said:

You just pulled those numbers out of your ass my friend 

Yea maybe guys can look at 80% of the women in the dating pool and say "I'd have sex with her" but that doesn't mean after the novelty of sex goes away that they'd actually be emotionally compatible and enjoy spending time together. 

To say that any man could spend the rest of his life happily with 80% of the women in the dating pool is really pretty absurd. Humans are so vastly diverse that such a statement is just not true.

       I only mean in terms of emotional/spiritual compatibility. No, 50% of men couldn't spend the rest of their life happy with anyone let alone a whole 80 percentile of women.

Citations; My Ass, Devin, 2023

Edited March 2, 2023 by Devin

[Emerald]

5 hours ago, StarStruck said:

Fair enough but you only cater to female mating strategies which are different from male mating strategies. In the same way you tell girls to judge males on this and that, we judge females on our own way.  I don't think this forum should cater to female mating strategies alone.

Lol! I’m adding the female  perspective precisely because it’s missing from this forum.

I don’t think a lot of guys realize how much it puts off healthy woman from considering them as a potential mate.

Obviously this forum is a SD green bubble so I do get that it can be distressing for some to reading these truths but outside of the bubble what I say is mainstream knowledge.

The dating section is solid Orange. I don’t see very many Stage Green views at all on here.

And it isn’t that distressing to me.

I have 22 years of experience with dating and relationships under my belt, and this sort of thing hasn’t ever been a problem precisely because I have a natural aversion to men who have immature views about sex, dating, and relationships since I was a teenager.

So, it doesn’t really affect my life in any tangible way when men are fixated on looks. I just don’t get involved with them.

I’m just trying to help young inexperienced female forum-goers realize they don’t have to settle for shenanigans. And I’m giving voice to the female perspective to let men know how they’re being perceived by us as well.

The world doesn't revolve around SD green! You already said that majority of men think like me but CONTEMPLATE why that is?

I didn’t say that the majority of men think like you. I said that a sizable minority of men think like you.

And it’s precisely because these guys have learned to equate their self-worth with being seen as the high status guy who gets with 10s.

Most men actually aren’t super fixated on that.

Because females REWARD a certain type of men: I would love be just a studious dork and be with girls but that is not being rewarded by hot females.

But here’s the thing as it pertains to my bias and female bias in general.

If a man is looking primarily to be “rewarded” by hot girls, then he’s not a serious candidate for a long term relationship. And so I’d sort him from consideration. This is doubly the case if he feels like he needs to change himself to get this validation

First off because his MO doesn’t align well with being in a relationship.

Also, because I’m going to assume if he’s looking for perfect 10s that I’m not attractive enough to satisfy him. And that’s a turn off. Women also tend to avoid men who aren’t attracted to them.

Then finally because he doesn’t actually have refined enough tastes to appreciate a relationship beyond the physical.

You may not like it but this type of goal in itself is a red flag. 

I get this narrative is not appeasing to high consciousness females who are a little bit older but they should aim for a different type of guy like you say yourself. If you are 30 as a female you won't have the same dating options as when you were 20, and I'm not saying that to bully females I'm saying that because this forum is based on truth and not appeasement of emotions.

I’m already in a relationship with someone.

But yes, that’s my point. I aim at different types of guys who are more mature and compatible and who are better suited to being in a relationship with. 

And even though quantity of attention has gone down somewhat from my 20s, the quality of the attention has gone way up.

When I was in my early twenties, every beauty-chasing Tom, Dick, and Harry wanted to get in my pants.

Lots of spammy low quality attention. And I don’t think they realized how they were being perceived.

But now since I’m about 30 lbs heavier and 10 years older, the attention has diminished quite a bit.

And even though I would like to be in shape again, I’m torn about it because I can now go to a grocery store without random strangers harassing me. It feels safer and more anonymous.

Last week I met another beautiful lady in a dance school. We were very much into each other and we were having a great time, dancing, talking and having fun. But something happened that happens a lot: I felt like she was too good for me, and I started second guessing, stuttering, being in my head, and eventually I told her I was going to the bathroom and then acted like she didn't exist. After a while i decided to go back to her and she was cold to me. Obviously she didn't do anything wrong; I gave her a mixed signals and acted weird. This only happens if I really like a girl and I think it has to do with my mother who didn't love me enough. But in general my experience with top shelf girls is that being heavy hearted (due to trauma) or having insecurities is punished heavily. I'm not bitter about it, I understand it and I'm working on it.

It’s probably because you see very attractive women as arbiters of male worth. It’s a common illusion.

And you probably get overwhelmed because you’re seeing attractive women as a key to the validation of your worth as a person. 

True, I wasn't contesting that.

My biggest goal is self development, trauma healing, and becoming a more loving person. It just happens that beautiful girls trigger my traumas so that is what I'm focusing on.

Look into the topic of Shame… and the topic of Anima integration. You might also look things up about the Mother Wound. I’ll post some of my videos below.

 

[Roy]

@Emerald No it wasn't particularly directed at you it was more of a general rant/statement. I agree with most of what you said just now in your reply.

I would say though it's not that much of an issue that men try to make a lot of money and wealth to attract women, it benefits themselves since you need to improve your own development overall to get more income, and I'd argue it's typically a net benefit for society in general as you need to provide a lot of value for people to get that money. People don't just give it away.

I don't find it as big a problem for women either to want to scheme for that as well. I mean if you want to raise a family having a financially/resource stable man is a logical thing to pursue. Perfectly normal survival agenda. Not my type of women because I don't personally value money highly or want my own children, but I get it.

What I don't get, and would love to get your perspective on, is why women would ever complain about being objectified or reduced down to their looks, but at the same time be invested so heavily financially and energy wise in beauty products, make-up, impractical sexy/revealing clothing, etc. Nearly every single woman is conditioned to do this, even from an extremely young age. It's like perhaps 5/100 females I see daily that aren't wearing any make-up. It's extremely rare. I'm willing to bet the average woman spends hundreds if not thousands of dollars a year on those sorts of products. The industry is gargantuan.

Forgive me but it seems to me like women are shooting themselves in the foot. It's like they are hitting themselves in the face, and then pointing at men, "look what you made me do! stop objectifying me!" Men aren't forcing women to do ANY of this, in fact the only places women are being forced to do stuff is in Muslim countries and other ultra conservative sexist hellholes where ironically they make them put stuff ON, not take it off.

Let's just pretend in a hypothetical world that tomorrow make-up no longer existed, or women collectively stopped grooming so heavily. Every woman in the world just had their natural look. The "scale" of attractiveness would collectively drop, but it would just be in a different place. The same women would all be rated accordingly and the species would go on, men would still want to be with them regardless.

So why all the make-up and effort to be pretty and look good? If it's just causing men to be shallow pigs, who don't care to learn about your personality?

Note I don't think women are completely autonomous or malicious in this hypocrisy by the way, obviously culture is a heavily influence and a lot of humans just unconsciously go along with what they think they need to do. I imagine women feel compelled to compete with each other in this way. However there has to be more to it than that.

You're obviously an intelligent person so I'm begging for some insight into this, with you giving your direct perspective and experience as a woman. However I do warn you the conversation will end instantly if I get an elementary vague response that, "wOmEn JuST lIKe tO dReSS uP anD wEAr MaKe UP bEcAuSe iT MaKEs uS fEeL gOoD!"

I've heard that same daft response a hundred times asking this, it's a completely inadequate explanation and I'd rather eat an entire bottle of aspirin and run 10 kilometers through glass then hear it again.

 

Edited March 3, 2023 by Roy

[something_else]

3 hours ago, Roy said:

You're obviously an intelligent person so I'm begging for some insight into this, with you giving your direct perspective and experience as a woman. However I do warn you the conversation will end instantly if I get an elementary vague response that, "wOmEn JuST lIKe tO dReSS uP anD wEAr MaKe UP bEcAuSe iT MaKEs uS fEeL gOoD!"

I've heard that same daft response a hundred times asking this, it's a completely inadequate explanation and I'd rather eat an entire bottle of aspirin and run 10 kilometers through glass then hear it again.

 

 

 

Yea I've gotta admit this frustrates me as well when I hear it 

Yea, it makes you feel good, it makes you feel good because you know you look better to other people. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that at all, but for some reason there seems to be this drive to say that making yourself look good isn't about other people.

If it made you feel good independent of others you'd wear fancy clothes and makeup everyday at home even when you're not leaving the house.

 

Edited March 3, 2023 by something_else

[integral]

Going to the gym and seeing all the women basically naked with skin tight cloths is exhausting for me, I don't want my primitive mental systems hit over and over again, its to the point that I consider it harassment. lmao

I honestly dont want to see it. It would be the equivalent if every guy had his dick hanging out. 

Edited March 3, 2023 by integral

[Devin]

40 minutes ago, integral said:

Going to the gym and seeing all the women basically naked with skin tight cloths is exhausting for me, I don't want my primitive mental systems hit over and over again, its to the point that I consider it harassment. lmao

I honestly dont want to see it. It would be the equivalent if every guy had his dick hanging out. 

           Doesn't bother me, I think you get used to it. Athenian women trained nude just like the men, and barely wore anything normally. You're just not used to it.

Edited March 3, 2023 by Devin

[integral]

19 minutes ago, Devin said:

Doesn't bother me, I think you get used to it. Athenian women trained nude just like the men, and barely wore anything normally. You're just not used to it.

On this topic lol
Radical Beauty: Inside a Naked Yoga Class, Baring Is Caring *warning there is nudity but its youtube friendly*

Edited March 3, 2023 by integral

[Devin]

3 minutes ago, integral said:

On this topic lol
https://youtu.be/qcNT_Ze4mck

LOL, that would get you over it REAL quick.