Passion of 10

[StarStruck]

I noticed that I get enormous passion when I talk to a 9 or a 10. Unfortunately my inner game is not that advanced enough to hook one in. I was contemplating about it this morning: why do I get so much passion from such beauty's of nature. It is obviously my male energy (I have high testosterone) that gets polarized against her female energy.  Then I had the idea, is it possible to find such a passion in myself so I'm not dependent an another? Passion is really a powerful force. Now I'm familiar with the energy that caused the mythological war between the Trojans and the Greeks, the beauty that unleashed 10000 ships across the Aegean sea.

[Leo Gura]

There is no limit to how strong your inner game and self-confidence can be. Your own limiting beliefs about yourself are basically the limit, and your lack of self-love.

If you want the best inner game, you must basically fall in love with yourself at the metaphysical level. Then no girl will ever faze you then.

Edited March 1, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Kshantivadin]

15 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

There is no limit to how strong your inner game and self-confidence can be. Your own limiting beliefs about yourself are basically the limit, and your lack of self-love.

If you want the best inner game, you must basically fall in love with yourself at the metaphysical level. Then no girl will ever faze you then.

Pin this to end the misery of the dating subforum 

[StarStruck]

@Leo Gura I contemplated further and I made a full circle I think  

Those 10’s are just a reflection of infinite love and what I’m really seeking is that inner love but I’m so unconscious that I reflect it on them. 

What also helped is accepting that females are hypergamous. Their love is conditional and not metaphysical. Expecting that kind of love is not fair anyway. 

Self love is healing and regenerative. It is very much needed in the mental gym of life. 

[mmKay]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

There is no limit to how strong your inner game and self-confidence can be. Your own limiting beliefs about yourself are basically the limit, and your lack of self-love.

If you want the best inner game, you must basically fall in love with yourself at the metaphysical level. Then no girl will ever faze you then.

Gotta develop that Upper case Narcisism ?

[StarStruck]

32 minutes ago, Judy2 said:

okay i'll be annoying again and point this out. 

if you guys care about "ending the misery of the dating subforum", does this only concern the part where you pimp male self esteem to infinity? and meanwhile a woman's value is limited and only ever determined by her attractiveness (and her body count)? this strikes me as a little imbalanced.

if we talk "unconditional self-love" for men, then the same should apply to women.

"infinite self esteem for men so they can get a 10" may sound nice for you in theory, until you realise that you're missing half of the equation.

this being said....i think it's cool that you guys support each other:) i can see why it's necessary. just wanted to point this out since many of you seem to be unaware how the discourse on here can impact female self-esteem quite negatively. which again, is our responsibility....but perhaps good men should care about the well-being of the females around them. i guess.

It is not a zero sum game. If the guy has self esteem it doesn't happen at the expense of the female. So I don't get your equation and what the other half of the equation is.

High value men aren't born. They are made. While high value females are born and they don't have to do anything other than to thank god and Loreal.

Edited March 1, 2023 by StarStruck

[Ulax]

2 hours ago, Judy2 said:

okay i'll be annoying again and point this out. 

if you guys care about "ending the misery of the dating subforum", does this only concern the part where you pimp male self esteem to infinity? and meanwhile a woman's value is limited and only ever determined by her attractiveness (and her body count)? this strikes me as a little imbalanced.

if we talk "unconditional self-love" for men, then the same should apply to women.

"infinite self esteem for men so they can get a 10" may sound nice for you in theory, until you realise that you're missing half of the equation.

this being said....i think it's cool that you guys support each other:) i can see why it's necessary. just wanted to point this out since many of you seem to be unaware how the discourse on here can impact female self-esteem quite negatively. which again, is our responsibility....but perhaps good men should care about the well-being of the females around them. i guess.

@Judy2  I empathise with your viewpoint. However, I think there is a case here of distinguishing between the ways things are and the way we want things to be.

In my opinion, when it comes to actually understanding sexual attraction you have to be willing to entertain some harsh truths. Female to male attraction, and male to female attraction simply operate very differently.

Male self esteem simply matters way more than female self esteem when it comes to the how much it affects sexual attractiveness. And, physical attractiveness is way important for females when it comes to sexual attractiveness.

And good pickup is very grounded in understanding these sexual dynamics and how to increase male sexual attractiveness, when it comes to casual relationships.

I can imagine that being a woman and reading these sorts of threads can be disturbing. But I sense the here the issue is you actually find the reality of female-male sexual dynamics disturbing. And although I empathise, I think you need to take the personal responsibility of avoiding threads about female-male sexual dynamics, if it affects you. In my opinion. these sorts of threads will always occur on a forum that caters for real, grounded self development in regards to increasing male sexual attractiveness. 

That said, if stuff breaches guidelines, I'd recommend reporting it. And, also, I'm not endorsing any comments where people may make a pejorative judgment about a certain sex on the basis of how attraction works, i.e. saying that women are bad because they ignore sexually unworthy guys, or endorsing guys who take their views from red pill theories, which are really seemingly just self-serving narratives. However, I don't see any of that happening on this thread.

Also, @Lila9, I think when female 'value' is talked about in the pickup community, its not talking about a women's value as a person, i.e. what she deserves from life, or how she deserves to be treated. Instead, its talking about a female's value in the context of 'male-female sexual dynamics', i.e. what typically scores a women points when it comes to her level of sexual attractiveness. That said, a lot of guys can make the mistake of conflating the two things, and doing things like objectifying women, or even just use this understanding to justify some misogynistic worldview. I don't want to paint too pretty a picture of the pick up community, but there is nuance to this stuff.

Edited March 1, 2023 by Ulax
clarity

[something_else]

6 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

Because pick-up has it's own world of concepts and view that many people who want to discuss relationships, feminity masculinity, dating, familiy and gender stuff can't/don't want to relate to.

 

Healthy pickup is about all of those things. Healthy pickup is mostly about teaching men how to be authentic, confident, masculine etc. in a way that is attractive to women. Fundamentally, it's about building really top-notch social skills.

But pickup comes with a lot of baggage that you are correctly picking up on, and that's why it's better for guys to refer to it as something else. Pickup culture is really toxic towards women and has bad connotations.

Also, guys have a tendency to use awfully crude language like value and the rating scale, but it's not like women don't do that either. It's just more subtle. Women are often brutally horrible to men who are for example socially inept and unintentionally come across as weird, creepy or otherwise unattractive. And that's a rapidly growing category of men. For that category of man, somewhat toxic pickup culture is actually an improvement over a self-pitying suicidal incel who might end up murdering a bunch of people.

Generally (and I'm stealing this from, I think, Leo) you should wish for yourself to be stronger rather than for the world to be easier and more forgiving.

[StarStruck]

@Lila9 @Judy2

I’m sorry if my words hurt your feelings but I don’t do it intentionally. 

Like it or not we males and females judge females on their sexual and reproductive value. And most of the time in a very harsh way. But don’t forget that females are equally harsh towards males while judging us towards the merits of your value judgement.

Males and females judge the opposite sex on different merits. Females are judged on their looks and males are judged on their competence, potentiality of competence, wealth and potentiality of wealth and social rank. 

Females are hypergamous. So you ladies only fuck up and not fuck down. As you can see it is much harder to be a valuable male than a valuable female. We males have to go through blood, suffering and tears to become a valuable male and a valuable female is born sexy and the only thing she needs to do is thank god and L’Oréal.  

This topic is harsh because survival is harsh. I recommend you learn from it and become conscious ladies instead of being revolted by it and looking the other way. It is not males who are picky it is females that are not picky when choosing partners. 

Edited March 1, 2023 by StarStruck

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, Lila9 said:

Well said!

It's not pleasant to constantly read how limited our value is (by our apperance, age, body count) while your value is "infinite". Our value doesn't end in our looks, age or body count, we are much more than that and those who blind to it, don't deserve women in their lives or any relationship because they will sabotage it with their shallow and egoic mindset and hurt others.

Some of the men here write things as if women aren't present here and read these stuff. They don't think about the power of the language they're using and its impact. 

I think that the talk in this sensitive subforum should be more conscious and all the standards that apply to other forums should be applied to here as well. The talk should be more aware and come from a place of healing, mediation between men and women, rapprochement between the sexes, understanding and learning rather than blaming, demonizing, reducing, devaluing.

Many men here are writing from a place of hurt and it's understandable because we are all got hurt by someone at some point and it can be painful and ego crashing. But it's not very conscious to keep the hurt cycle and hurt others.  

Hurt people hurt people hurt people hurt people hurt people hurt people- until someone is aware enough to break this malicious cycle and act with awareness, means, to handle the pain consciously in a way that will heal and empower him, not in a way that disempower others because he feels small and disempowered at the moment (I suffer so everyone must suffer).

We get what we give to the world, that's real and if we want a good and consiouns life, we should do the bare minimum to be good and consiouns ourselves. Treat people with basic respect regardless any shallow parameter that we are identified with in this dream, that's classical.

 

I think the men who talk about these things like this don’t realize how much of an anti-advertisement this is from the perspective of a women.

When a woman is deciding who she wants to be her partner, if she is wise, she will take his fixation on looks as a big red flag. A man who’s all about dating 10s is a liability to the woman.

Even if the woman is a solid 10 now, she knows that beauty is ephemeral. And so, her beauty will fade.

And such a man who needs a 10 to feel good about himself will leave her for a younger woman. And will leave the younger woman for a younger woman.

And so on and so on until he’s 80 and married to an opportunistic 25 year old.

He can keep re-upping on more and more 10s to prop up his self-esteem. But if she buys into this framework and tries to play this game, she can’t keep re-upping her looks the same way.

And so women must die that death and find a mature man who understands the value in dying that death as well. 

They must both transcend the game. And many men and some women never will.

And she is left feeling in a state of permanently increasing inadequacy where she hides herself from the world with every new line on her face.

And he is in a constant search for youthful beauty to fill his voids by seeking newer and newer models.

And any male/female relationship is doomed under this circumstance. So, the wise woman will look for tells of immaturity as it comes to women’s looks and sort the men accordingly.

Edited March 1, 2023 by Emerald

[Devin]

48 minutes ago, Emerald said:

I think the men who talk about these things like this don’t realize how much of an anti-advertisement this is from the perspective of a women.

When a woman is deciding who she wants to be her partner, if she is wise, she will take his fixation on looks as a big red flag. A man who’s all about dating 10s is a liability to the woman.

Even if the woman is a solid 10 now, she knows that beauty is ephemeral. And so, her beauty will fade.

And such a man who needs a 10 to feel good about himself will leave her for a younger woman. And will leave the younger woman for a younger woman.

And so on and so on until he’s 80 and married to an opportunistic 25 year old.

He can keep re-upping on more and more 10s to prop up his self-esteem. But if she buys into this framework and tries to play this game, she can’t keep re-upping her looks the same way.

And so women must die that death and find a mature man who understands the value in dying that death as well. 

They must both transcend the game. And many men and some women never will.

And she is left feeling in a state of permanently increasing inadequacy where she hides herself from the world with every new line on her face.

And he is in a constant search for youthful beauty to fill his voids by seeking newer and newer models.

And any male/female relationship is doomed under this circumstance. So, the wise woman will look for tells of immaturity as it comes to women’s looks and sort the men accordingly.

        I think you're extrapolating incorrectly here, men's fixation with looks is only for procreating, after you're married and having kids that guy doesn't drop you for someone better looking. I really don't hear about that sort of thing, most divorce is actually initiated by women. For the never having children crowd you're right though.

Edited March 1, 2023 by Devin

[NoSelfSelf]

When you dont think you are beautiful shes beautiful,when you dont think you are great shes great...

-some wise man 2023

[Devin]

4 hours ago, StarStruck said:

 

High value men aren't born. They are made. While high value females are born and they don't have to do anything other than to thank god and Loreal.

       Well in the general sense that's true but to respond to what she's getting at women can absolutely increase their value as well; would you rather have a highly conscious 7 or an average 10?

        You could also say the reverse about men, "men are born into their value, whatever social class they're born into", in general this is true as well.

Edited March 1, 2023 by Devin

[StarStruck]

1 hour ago, Devin said:

       Well in the general sense that's true but to respond to what she's getting at women can absolutely increase their value as well; would you rather have a highly conscious 7 or an average 10?

        You could also say the reverse about men, "men are born into their value, whatever social class they're born into", in general this is true as well.

Would I rather have a highly conscious 7 or an average 10? It really depends in which phase of my life I’m. At this moment I value a 10 more than a 7 because that is just where I’m at and it is nothing wrong with that.

Females are trophies so if I can get 10/10 that will mean I broke the genetic code: I get to breed with the top shelf if I want.  After having dated 10’s I will find out they are shallow and I might aim for high conscious females but time will show how this process will develop. 

Females decide who gets to breed and who not. If you are a hot female it doesn’t matter which social class you are in: You can date up and fuck up. While it does matter for a guy in which social class he is born; but not every guy has that luck while if you are a hot female it doesn’t matter. 

Females are the ones who are hypergamous and judge men on their social status and power. Don’t try to turn this around. Males are not hypergamous, they are the true romantics and just look at a girl’s face and heart, while girls look at other things.  Even in this topic you can see how judgemental females are of the male perspective while they would never date/fuck down, only fuck/date up. 

[Devin]

27 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

Would I rather have a highly conscious 7 or an average 10? It really depends in which phase of my life I’m. At this moment I value a 10 more than a 7 because that is just where I’m at and it is nothing wrong with that.

Females are trophies so if I can get 10/10 that will mean I broke the genetic code: I get to breed with the top shelf if I want.  After having dated 10’s I will find out they are shallow and I might aim for high conscious females but time will show how this process will develop. 

Females decide who gets to breed and who not. If you are a hot female it doesn’t matter which social class you are in: You can date up and fuck up. While it does matter for a guy in which social class he is born; but not every guy has that luck while if you are a hot female it doesn’t matter. 

Females are the ones who are hypergamous and judge men on their social status and power. Don’t try to turn this around. Males are not hypergamous, they are the true romantics and just look at a girl’s face and heart, while girls look at other things.  Even in this topic you can see how judgemental females are of the male perspective while they would never date/fuck down, only fuck/date up. 

              Yeah, I was just trying to talk about what she was getting at, do you agree that women can increase their value? Say the 7 becoming highly conscious.

        I think she was just wanting to interject that we're talking in a gross generalization, which is inconsiderate to female listeners, pretty disheartening wouldn't you say, to hear there's no point in trying to improve yourself?

Edited March 1, 2023 by Devin

[StarStruck]

19 minutes ago, Devin said:

              Yeah, I was just trying to talk about what she was getting at, do you agree that women can increase their value? Say the 7 becoming highly conscious.

        I think she was just wanting to interject that we're talking in a gross generalization, which is inconsiderate to female listeners, pretty disheartening wouldn't you say, to hear there's no point in trying to improve yourself?

That is what I’m saying: it really depends on which phase I’m in my life. If I’m not looking for a long term relationship I don’t care how high or low conscious she is. I’m just looking at how fun and sexy she is. 

I don’t know how to put this in other words.

Do you know what is disheartening? How I get treated by females as shit because I have insecurities because of traumas. Am I bitter about it? No. I know how nature works. Survival and sex is survival of the fittest so they don’t want a guy who has insecurities and traumas. 

Survival = ruthless

Especially for males who have to fend for themselves. If you are a hot girl you can just date up without doing much self improvement. 

But can a 7 become an 8? Why not? If she goes to the gym and eats healthy she can raise her sexual value for short term dating. Or she can do therapy to become a more loving person and thus raise her wifey material value. But no therapy and no fitness will make a 7 a 10. 

Edited March 1, 2023 by StarStruck

[Devin]

3 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

That is what I’m saying: it really depends on which phase I’m in my life. If I’m not looking for a long term relationship I don’t care how high or low conscious she is. I’m just looking at how fun and sexy she is. 

I don’t know how to put this in other words.

Do you know what is disheartening? How I get treated by females as shit because I have insecurities because of traumas. Am I bitter about it? No. I know how nature works. Survival and sex is survival of the fittest so they don’t want a guy who has insecurities and traumas. 

Survival = ruthless

Especially for males who have to fend for themselves. If you are a hot girl you can just date up without doing much self improvement. 

But can a 7 become an 8? Why not? If she goes to the gym and eats healthy she can raise her sexual value for short term dating. Or she can do therapy to become a more loving person. But no therapy and no fitness will make a 7 a 10. 

Yeah the issue isn't with what you want it's with the public communication

6 hours ago, StarStruck said:

High value men aren't born. They are made. While high value females are born and they don't have to do anything other than to thank god and Loreal.

you stated this as fact, like a woman's value is determined at birth, like there's no hope for women that haven't been pursued much by men, like there's nothing she can do about it.

     It's inconsiderate to state it in that manner especially where females will read it, just like you said if they do therapy they can increase their value, and that men at different stages in life will value a developed 7 more than an average 10.

      The contention is just the gross overgeneralization to an audience that includes women, your poor treatment by women isn't right but you also don't want to dishearten women on here obviously. I think it was just a friendly remark trying to point out a blindspot.

[StarStruck]

@Devin thanks

[Emerald]

2 hours ago, Devin said:

        I think you're extrapolating incorrectly here, men's fixation with looks is only for procreating, after you're married and having kids that guy doesn't drop you for someone better looking. I really don't hear about that sort of thing, most divorce is actually initiated by women. For the never having children crowd you're right though.

If a guy is really fixated on getting 10s and deriving social status or validation from it, there’s a pretty high chance that he will devalue his woman as she ages, and he may even cheat or stray once the opportunity arises.

Or he’ll become resentful at his partner for aging and/or gaining weight because he sees her looks as a reflection of his status and value as a man.

So, if a man is overtly focused on women’s looks as an achievement of status for him, it’s wise for women to avoid that guy… especially if the woman is very attractive.

Also, if a man cheats or strays… the woman is often the one that initiates the divorce in that scenario too. So, that statistic is pretty meaningless given that we don’t know why they’ve initiated the divorce.

[Devin]

8 minutes ago, Emerald said:

If a guy is really fixated on getting 10s and deriving social status or validation from it, there’s a pretty high chance that he will devalue his woman as she ages, and he may even cheat or stray once the opportunity arises.

Or he’ll become resentful at his partner for aging and/or gaining weight because he sees her looks as a reflection of his status and value as a man.

So, if a man is overtly focused on women’s looks as an achievement of status for him, it’s wise for women to avoid that guy… especially if the woman is very attractive.

Also, if a man cheats or strays… the woman is often the one that initiates the divorce in that scenario too. So, that statistic is pretty meaningless given that we don’t know why they’ve initiated the divorce.

        I disagree, that's a caricature, that would be an extremely rare circumstance, once they're married and having children she does not need to maintain that level.