Passion of 10

[Emerald]

4 minutes ago, Devin said:

        I disagree, that's a caricature, that would be an extremely rare circumstance, once they're married and having children she does not need to maintain that level.

It’s not a caricature nor is it extremely rare. It’s quite commonplace actually. And women encounter them fairly often.

There are plenty of guys who only see women as arm candy. 

You were just talking to one of them when he literally said “women are trophies”. And how he would go for the unconscious 10 over the conscious 7 to have children with.

These types of guys are a dime a dozen. 

Literally millions of these types of guys exist. And I’m a bit surprised that you’re not aware of this.

Whether you like to look at it or not, there’s a sizable minority of men who see looks as women’s only or primary value.

And my advice to women is to avoid those men because they are a liability.

[Ulax]

5 hours ago, Lila9 said:

@Ulax I understand that here the word 'value' refers to sexual value but it's not always clear and it's often get so emerged and confused with woman's actual value as a human, people not seem aware enough to this. 

I have an idea that if pick-up is discussed here by many, maybe it should have a completely separated sub-forum, dedicated to it alone. Because pick-up has it's own world of concepts and view that many people who want to discuss relationships, feminity masculinity, dating, familiy and gender stuff can't/don't want to relate to.

 

@Lila9 I think I get you.

I like the idea of a separated sub-forum for pickup, and agree with your points of view.

@Leo Gura Perhaps this separate forum section is something to consider?

[Devin]

@StarStruck Does a woman need to maintain 10ness after you're married and having children?

 

[Devin]

5 minutes ago, Emerald said:

It’s not a caricature nor is it extremely rare. It’s quite commonplace actually. And women encounter them fairly often.

There are plenty of guys who only see women as arm candy. 

You were just talking to one of them when he literally said “women are trophies”. And how he would go for the unconscious 10 over the conscious 7 to have children with.

These types of guys are a dime a dozen. 

Literally millions of these types of guys exist. And I’m a bit surprised that you’re not aware of this.

Whether you like to look at it or not, there’s a sizable minority of men who see looks as women’s only or primary value.

And my advice to women is to avoid those men because they are a liability.

          I agree they're focussed on looks,  I'm only disagreeing that they require that maintained to the same level after marriage and children.

[Emerald]

Just now, Devin said:

          I agree they're focussed on looks,  I'm only disagreeing that they require that maintained to the same level after marriage and children.

What I’m saying is that it’s unwise for women to get involved with a guy who’s very fixated on looks.

So, the marriage question doesn’t really relate because it’s not wise to even go out on a date with that kind of guy.

He’s not going to value the woman for who she is in dating or marriage because this type of man only sees women as reflections of his own status and Masculinity.

[StarStruck]

27 minutes ago, Emerald said:

It’s not a caricature nor is it extremely rare. It’s quite commonplace actually. And women encounter them fairly often.

There are plenty of guys who only see women as arm candy. 

You were just talking to one of them when he literally said “women are trophies”. And how he would go for the unconscious 10 over the conscious 7 to have children with.

These types of guys are a dime a dozen. 

Literally millions of these types of guys exist. And I’m a bit surprised that you’re not aware of this.

Whether you like to look at it or not, there’s a sizable minority of men who see looks as women’s only or primary value.

And my advice to women is to avoid those men because they are a liability.

That is not what I said. I wouldn't choose an average 10 over a high conscious 7 for mating. For short term dating (aka self improvement, fun, etc) I would go for 10's but for long term dating I would obviously choose the higher conscious one even if she is a 7.

I like your posts but you definitely have a female bias, in the same way I have a male bias. It is normal since males and females are polar opposites. We don't desire the same things in a relationship as the sexes and we have different mating strategies. Why do you want males to cater to female dating strategies? You should know this and you seem a little bitter towards men.

When females find out I have traumas they treat me as shit. But I'm not bitter about it because I understand their value scanning. Why should I be bitter towards females because they don't accept me as a traumatized male? It is against their mating strategy.

23 minutes ago, Ulax said:

@Lila9 I think I get you.

I like the idea of a separated sub-forum for pickup, and agree with your points of view.

@Leo Gura Perhaps this separate forum section is something to consider?

This topic is not pickup. If I find a 10 and she is also a high conscious girl I would marry her. From the feminist perspective, the male dating strategy will look like pickup because they don't have compassion for the male perspective in dating. Unfortunately even on a high conscious forum it is not common.

21 minutes ago, Devin said:

@StarStruck Does a woman need to maintain 10ness after you're married and having children?

 

No.

Emerald is making a lot of assumptions.

I'm a very loving person and I want to date and have sex with beautiful females and I'm not ashamed about it.

 

Edited March 1, 2023 by StarStruck

[Ulax]

3 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

This topic is not pickup. If I find a 10 and she is also a high conscious girl I would marry her. From the feminist perspective, the male dating strategy will look like pickup because they don't have compassion for the male perspective in dating. Unfortunately even on a high conscious forum it is not common.

 

@StarStruck I think its definitely a pick up topic. But I don't want to debate further about whether it is or not.

[Devin]

12 minutes ago, Emerald said:

What I’m saying is that it’s unwise for women to get involved with a guy who’s very fixated on looks.

So, the marriage question doesn’t really relate because it’s not wise to even go out on a date with that kind of guy.

He’s not going to value the woman for who she is in dating or marriage because this type of man only sees women as reflections of his own status and Masculinity.

         I think you're too hyper focussed on one element, if he's only focused on looks and a douche bag narcissist yeah of course, but if he admittedly cares about looks 95% of those guys will still care about the woman I promise.

[StarStruck]

@Ulax It might seem to you like that but I know my intention when I made this topic.

[Ulax]

@StarStruck Fairs man. We can have differing opinions.

[Leo Gura]

It's hard to love another when you don't even love yourself.

[Emerald]

2 hours ago, Devin said:

         I think you're too hyper focussed on one element, if he's only focused on looks and a douche bag narcissist yeah of course, but if he admittedly cares about looks 95% of those guys will still care about the woman I promise.

I wish I had your optimism. But it’s definitely not 95%. It’s probably closer to 80% of men who will still care… but even in that group it will be an question of degree to which that caring is overpowered by their validation seeking drives.

It really depends on how mature the man is. And a sizable and vocal minority of men are very immature about the dating and relationships.

What must be understood here is that (in general) a large percentage of the population aren’t that trustworthy. And to view 95% of any group as mature enough to “do the right thing” is foolish.

This is why I recommend for women to notice red flags and screen potential partners for these tells about their level of maturity.

And one such tell about a man’s maturity as it pertains to relationships is if a man holds the primary sex/relationship goal of getting with a 10.

It tells you a lot about what he values.

But to be clear, I’m not talking about men simply being visual in their initial attractions. That’s normal for heterosexual men to be attracted to pretty women.

What I’m talking about is if a man is hyper-fixated on getting with a 10 because he wants the status (and therefore validation) associated with it.

I’m talking specifically about men who mostly see women as status trophies.

[Devin]

18 minutes ago, Emerald said:

I wish I had your optimism. But it’s definitely not 95%. It’s probably closer to 80% of men who will still care… but even in that group it will be an question of degree to which that caring is overpowered by their validation seeking drives.

It really depends on how mature the man is. And a sizable and vocal minority of men are very immature about the dating and relationships.

What must be understood here is that (in general) a large percentage of the population aren’t that trustworthy. And to view 95% of any group as mature enough to “do the right thing” is foolish.

This is why I recommend for women to notice red flags and screen potential partners for these tells about their level of maturity.

And one such tell about a man’s maturity as it pertains to relationships is if a man holds the primary sex/relationship goal of getting with a 10.

It tells you a lot about what he values.

But to be clear, I’m not talking about men simply being visual in their initial attractions. That’s normal for heterosexual men to be attracted to pretty women.

What I’m talking about is if a man is hyper-fixated on getting with a 10 because he wants the status (and therefore validation) associated with it.

I’m talking specifically about men who mostly see women as status trophies.

Okay.

        The 95% I just meant still care about the woman, even though they chose by looks, yeah most aren't very mature.

[Emerald]

3 hours ago, StarStruck said:

That is not what I said. I wouldn't choose an average 10 over a high conscious 7 for mating. For short term dating (aka self improvement, fun, etc) I would go for 10's but for long term dating I would obviously choose the higher conscious one even if she is a 7.

I like your posts but you definitely have a female bias, in the same way I have a male bias. It is normal since males and females are polar opposites. We don't desire the same things in a relationship as the sexes and we have different mating strategies. Why do you want males to cater to female dating strategies? You should know this and you seem a little bitter towards men.

I am specifically stating my female bias to recommend to any female readers to sort men from consideration who are super fixated upon looks. 

If a young inexperienced woman or girl comes on here and reads this thread with tons of men reducing women’s value to looks and saying all this stuff about how women can’t change her value because it’s looks-based, she may not yet realize that she doesn’t have to play that game to be loved by a man. 

And she may not yet realize that more mature guys exist and she will think that looks are all men care about.

And so I clearly state my boundaries as an average looking woman in her 30s as it pertains to red flag behaviors around fixation on looks to encourage inexperienced women to be more selective and to realize that they’re not in a place of scarcity.

And they don’t have to settle for a guy who is immature in this way who only sees her as a trophy.

When females find out I have traumas they treat me as shit.

How do they find out you have trauma? And how do they treat you? I need the specifics here.

But I'm not bitter about it because I understand their value scanning. Why should I be bitter towards females because they don't accept me as a traumatized male? It is against their mating strategy.

This isn’t how women think or operate.

Value scanning is usually intuitive and silent. It’s pretty much a background emotional process as opposed to a conscious intellectual process.

This topic is not pickup. If I find a 10 and she is also a high conscious girl I would marry her.

Just because a person has two qualities that you like doesn’t mean they’re going to be a compatible partner or that you’re going to have chemistry or fall in love with them.

This reveals to me that you don’t understand much about what a relationship is.

Which is probably why looks are the primary thing you’re seeking to be in relationship to. 

From the feminist perspective, the male dating strategy will look like pickup because they don't have compassion for the male perspective in dating. Unfortunately even on a high conscious forum it is not common.

It’s definitely pick-up unless you’re cultivating a social circle.

Emerald is making a lot of assumptions.

Women are wiser to make these assumptions than to not.

Don’t give a guy with lots of red flags a chance when you can give guys who don’t have those red flags a chance.

I'm a very loving person and I want to date and have sex with beautiful females and I'm not ashamed about it.

There’s nothing wrong with being attracted to and wanting to sleep with pretty women.

But if a guy is going on about that as his goal, then most of those women are going to sort him from consideration. 

 

 

[Emerald]

38 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

@StarStruck

Your posts convey distress for me. I feel some hurt and pain behind many things you write. May you look at it and put your efforts on healing first.  

@Emerald Thank you for writing those points, I totally agree. That's why men should have better standards for women rather than just "hot" as the only standard, standards like psychological, sexual, emotional and spiritual compatibility are more importent for actually being happy and satisfied with the person.

Wow, definitely.

@Ulax <3

Well, I’m not exactly telling men what they SHOULD value in a woman. Any given man can value what he values.

And if that’s to go and sleep with a super model then that’s just where he’s at in his development.

But I am making it quite clear that it lowers their value as a romantic partner in my eyes and in the eyes of most women. It reveals that he’s probably not a good candidate for a serious relationship.

I think a lot of guys think that it conveys high value on their part to comport themselves this way by showing that their standards are high.

[mr_engineer]

@Emerald What you're saying goes against the notion of 'preselection' that's popular in the pick-up community. 

I have not wanted to believe this to be true about women. Because if it is, then it makes me lose respect for them. For the individuals for whom this is true, it signals a lack of ability to think for oneself and being consensus-driven. 

Is it true? 

[Emerald]

1 minute ago, mr_engineer said:

@Emerald What you're saying goes against the notion of 'preselection' that's popular in the pick-up community. 

I have not wanted to believe this to be true about women. Because if it is, then it makes me lose respect for them. For the individuals for whom this is true, it signals a lack of ability to think for oneself and being consensus-driven. 

Is it true? 

What do you mean by pre-selection?

If you mean women being repelled by a man because he has red flags, then pre-selection makes sense.

And it’s not even something that the woman has to try to do. She won’t think “I’m not going to be attracted to that guy.”

The attraction just never happens.

But a woman may also have certain dealbreakers too. Like a deal breaker of mine is if a guy views relationships in an immature way.

And so, if I was single and a guy with immature views on relationships asked me out, I would say no on that basis alone because it’s a dealbreaker.

But everyone naturally sorts to some degree.

If you see a person acting erratically for example, you’re probably going to avoid that person because they’re showing signs that they’re unsafe.

Why give that person a chance when you can give a person who’s behaving more safety a chance instead.

[mr_engineer]

@Emerald No. 

Pre-selection means, being interested in men who have women, or who are 'pre-selected'. If he has two women on his arms, ten other women will rationalize the reasons for that and be into that. At least, that's how pick-up theory goes. 

What do you think? 

Edited March 2, 2023 by mr_engineer

[Emerald]

Just now, mr_engineer said:

@Emerald No, 

Pre-selection means, being interested in men who have women. If he has two women on his arms, ten other women will rationalize the reasons for that and be into that. At least, that's how pick-up theory goes. 

What do you think? 

Well, that’s definitely uninteresting to me. I never cared about status through that kind of lens. 

And a guy having a bunch of women on his arm is a bit of a red flag to me that it won’t be a good match. 

I want a guy to myself, so I don’t want some playboy who’s going to get bored in two months and start cheating.

And I’m pretty sure this describes 80%+ of women.

But I think status-driven men tend to want lots of hot women on their arm. And status-driven women want to be validated as the hot chick on the arm of a man who is desirable to other women.

But this is all super bland to me. It’s like the dating version of Top 40 music that’s simultaneously super flashy and super bland all at once.

There’s no real interest or intimacy there. 

[mr_engineer]

@Emerald

1 minute ago, Emerald said:

But I think status-driven men tend to want lots of hot women on their arm. And status-driven women want to be validated as the hot chick on the arm of a man who is desirable to other women.

So, from a woman's perspective, it's a big pyramid-scheme. Am I right?! 

It's like 'I want the status I get with him cuz he's desirable to other women' and everyone's thinking that. The value of the man is being deferred to what the other party thinks of him, by both parties! (By 'party' I mean woman)