Frank Yang on TOE with Curt Jaimungal Interview

[axiom]

3 minutes ago, peanutspathtotruth said:

the integration and emotional development of some actors here seems very poor.

This should be a big clue. Spirituality is the ultimate form of seeking, and all seeking perpetuates - if not amplifies - the ego.

Edited March 8, 2023 by axiom

[Leo Gura]

One of the mistakes you guys make is that you judge the content of what is said to you by how spiritual a personal feels to you. Like how noble the teacher sounds. And you confuse this nobility, humility, kindness, generosity, etc for Consciousness. Which it is not.

Buddhists impress you with their Buddhist acting.

Edited March 8, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Inliytened1]

3 minutes ago, axiom said:

This should be a big clue. Spirituality is the ultimate form of seeking, and all seeking perpetuates - if not amplifies - the ego.

There's a trap in that too.  Be careful to mistake Leo's words for egoic.  Maybe he is in the black hole and you're not.   Consider it.

[Breakingthewall]

2 minutes ago, axiom said:

And then what?

Well, there's a huge difference between not having done it and having done it. I mean to deconstruct your mind, separate you from all the handles and stories, and also become infinite, let's say, 4 times, with 5 meo. you're free. before you were not, you were trapped in the dream. this is something absolutely real, you realize what you are. afterwards, there is only one possible way: to go deeper, for a simple reason, the deeper, the more beauty, more harmony, more breadth. so that? just vocation to break the limits

[Salvijus]

A lot of toxicity and ego stuff is inside these debates is what peanutspathtotruth meant

[Someone here]

25 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

@Someone here That's not my point.

My point is that all these enlightenment disputes are about narrative control. I'm offering a meta perspective here on what's going on. When someone says this is the right way and all other ways are wrong, then this person is trying to control the narrative. They maybe aware or unaware, that doesn't matter. But however you slice it, the assertion about right and wrong remains an attempt at controlling the narrative in the mind of the seeker. Like who the fuck can confirm any of all of this except the one person who is seeking?! No scientific method can confirm anything, and so-called "enlightened people" already disagree a lot about the most basic stuff, so we can't go with consensus either. There are clearly no objective answers here. So how can anyone claim an objective answer or to know "the truth"? And then they go on to tell you how to seek, because otherwise you're doomed. I know the one right way to seek. Everyone else is deluded. That is the game.

Honestly, I'm starting to think that this whole enlightenment thing is about selling confidence more than anything else. People are afraid of the unknown and they seek comfort in the confidence of their guru. This can happen on both explicit and implicit levels. Sometimes, the guru is very sneaky. They will act very confident and chill as if they know everything, without actually claiming to know anything, like Nahm for example. It's a very subtle way of controlling the narrative.

For me personally, I don't care about any of this. If you like Buddhism or Islam, go join an Ashram or a Mosque. If you don't like any religion and you want to find out for yourself, go find out for yourself. It's not my game. Your awakening is your awakening. Seek however you want, and I'll seek however I want.

OK I will try to address your points..

First of all..There are  many paths to enlightenment.

However  ,there is not different types of the ‘realisation of the one truth’.

The truth is just ‘you are God ’.

But, there are many minds from different conditionings and backgrounds that seek different kinds of realization.  Leo is talking about a specific type of enlightenment. .

For example..I'm sure you are familiar with the Neo-Advaita philosophy and POV on Enlightenment:

No paths lead to enlightenment. Enlightenment is not ‘somewhere else.’ Enlightenment is right here. This is it. If enlightenment resides on a distant summit somewhere, there is no enlightenment.

There is only Being. There is no “you” that arrives at ‘enlightenment,’ no matter which path/practice you take, nor which trail you climb up any mountain.

The question presumes there is a separate “someone” who can arrive “somewhere” other than where we are, through “their” own volition. It also presumes the illusory “you” wants that, perhaps as an escape from your ‘normal’ life or ‘suffering.’ When that false ”you” dissolves, all that’s left is Being/Enlightenment. blah blah blah 

And Leo says : you go full circle from extreme denial of the self  to recognize that the self is everything.  And that you are the whole of reality and that you are God. The actual creator of this universe. And you can reclaim your authority as God and create your life accordingly.

It doesn't seem to me that it's ego stroking or games to gain money or that Leo is being childish (the entire planet doesn't understand enlightenment, only I do ).
You ate free to interpret that as you like .that either Leo is turning enlightenment into business and trying to gain profit from it .or he is really onto something. I choose the second option  . If you choose the first option then you are basically saying that Leo is manipulating people into his mumbo-jumbo enlightenment nonsense and tries to gain  money via courses and YT etc . And this makes me ask you: if you do think that ..then why are you in a forum of that scammer?

[Salvijus]

Nobody is communicating from the heart inclusive presence. Everyone is stuck defending their ego. Not cool. Not cool ma friends. Low conciousness 

Edited March 8, 2023 by Salvijus

[peanutspathtotruth]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

One of the mistakes you guys make is that you judge the content of what is said to you by how spiritual a personal feels to you. Like how noble the teacher sounds. And you confuse this nobility, humility, kindness, generosity, etc for Consciousness. Which it is not.

Buddhists impress you with their Buddhist acting.

If you alluded to me, I was saying I have no idea if it's true what you're saying or not - and I will keep looking on my own.

I don't look for spiritual ways of communicating, I look for healthy ways of communicating. That doesn't mean it can't be direct. But from my current view at least, a healthy communication embodies what it teaches and actually tries to help each other raise consciousness.

That's not what I'm seeing and that's what I'm pointing out. Again, no idea if you're right or not, how could I pretend I'd know from reading?

I can just say that these discussions - as interesting as they are - have been repelling me from these teachings over and over again, and I don't view that as an effective and healthy teaching. It's just sad to see how such profound topics get discussed in such low quality ways. 

[Gesundheit2]

@Someone here I was not attacking Leo or his views in my post. I was saying that what seems to be happening, regardless of potential value to you or me or anyone else, is ego games. Anything could be true, only one way to know. Or infinite ways, who knows?

[axiom]

18 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Well, there's a huge difference between not having done it and having done it. I mean to deconstruct your mind, separate you from all the handles and stories, and also become infinite, let's say, 4 times, with 5 meo. you're free. before you were not, you were trapped in the dream. this is something absolutely real, you realize what you are. afterwards, there is only one possible way: to go deeper, for a simple reason, the deeper, the more beauty, more harmony, more breadth. so that? just vocation to break the limits

Sounds fun once in a while, so long as it is not taken too seriously I suppose. Nothing wrong with that.

But to treat it as a vocation does not sound like a deep innate satisfaction with what is.

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, axiom said:

Sounds fun once in a while, so long as it is not taken too seriously I suppose. Nothing wrong with that.

But to treat it as a vocation does not sound like a deep innate satisfaction with what is.

well, satisfaction or not, what it is is what it is. the thing is to remove from the experience that is happening all the layer of meaning and limitation that keeps us tied to the surface and realize that you are the whole thing and dive into you. not doing it is catastrophic imo. Idiocy. We have to completely get out of mental constructions and get into the real. the real is infinite. 

it's like it's a game. until you pass the phase of mental constructions and limits, you can not start with the next phase: go deeper

[axiom]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

well, satisfaction or not, what it is is what it is. the thing is to remove from the experience that is happening all the layer of meaning and limitation that keeps us tied to the surface and realize that you are the whole thing and dive into you. not doing it is catastrophic imo. Idiocy. We have to completely get out of mental constructions and get into the real. the real is infinite. 

it's like it's a game. until you pass the phase of mental constructions and limits, you can not start with the next phase: go deeper

Woah, horsey! 

”Idiocy”? You sound like Leo

Joking aside, I see all paths as essentially valueless. The present moment is already perfect - it doesn’t need anything. If psychedelics happen then, sure, fine. I like 5MEO. I like psilocybin. I like Ayahuasca and Ketamine. Lovely stuff. I also like cups of tea, walks in the park and lazy Sunday mornings. It’s all the same to me.

[Breakingthewall]

4 minutes ago, axiom said:

The present moment is already perfect - it doesn’t need anything.

Yes, it is what it is, but you can spend your whole life skating on the surface of the lake or break the ice and go diving inside. thinking that one thing is the same as another and staying on the surface, is what I call "idiocy". Let's call limitation.

[Matthew85]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

One of the mistakes you guys make is that you judge the content of what is said to you by how spiritual a personal feels to you. Like how noble the teacher sounds. And you confuse this nobility, humility, kindness, generosity, etc for Consciousness. Which it is not.

Buddhists impress you with their Buddhist acting.

@Leo Gura Valid point Leo. But there is often a correlation between expanded states of consciousness and expressing more love and compassion. How can you realize oneness and not automatically have an increase in your love and compassion?

Edited March 8, 2023 by Matthew85

[axiom]

@Matthew85 This seems to be something to do with the apparent differences between conditioning in the body and conditioning in the mind. 

[Rahra]

Frank's Buddhist adherence is indeed cute.

God is the Absolute Truth.

So his idea of something above or beyond God is falsehood.

Buddhists denial of God and Love is absurd. 

God's existence is Absolute.

God is love.

 

[Yimpa]

11 minutes ago, Matthew85 said:

@Leo Gura Valid point Leo. But there is often a correlation between expanded states of conscouness and expressing more love and compassion. How can you realize oneness and not automatically have an increase in your love and compassion?

Consciousness is omniscient in infinite directions. You can’t “increase” or “decrease” what is. All relative notions completely collapse when you realize who you are. 

With that said, feel free to expand your state of consciousness and be more loving, compassionate, etc. until you exhaust even that. 

[Leo Gura]

36 minutes ago, Matthew85 said:

@Leo Gura Valid point Leo. But there is often a correlation between expanded states of consciousness and expressing more love and compassion. How can you realize oneness and not automatically have an increase in your love and compassion?

There is a loose correlation. The key word being loose.

13 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

Consciousness is omniscient in infinite directions.

Not in your current state.

Quote

You can’t “increase” or “decrease” what is.

You can increase and decrease consciousness of what is.

The fact that I even need to say this to you is already a travesty, and shows your lack of understanding of Consciousness.

Edited March 8, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Thought Art]

i am very loving and compassionate but I don’t put on a show  

Edited March 8, 2023 by Thought Art

[Matthew85]

4 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

i am very loving and compassionate but I don’t put on a show  

@Thought Art That is a good sign. An authentic state doesn't need to show or prove anything.